Giant FCR1 and bottom bracket problems.

[Mick]

Hello all,

I asked some questions about my new Giant bike in early August and I am
sorry to come back to the group but the problem has not been sorted...

I have now ridden my Giant FCR 1 for 230 miles and 190 of them have
been with this creaking noise. This is a cause of embarrassment and utter
disappointment. The LBS has 1) taken out the bb/ cleaned/greased and
replaced it....with a note stating " one cup was loose " and 2) replaced the
bb with a " better quality one " and again noted one of the cups was loose.

I manage to do about 1/2mile from the LBS and the noise returns.
I have looked at the cup and it doesn't seem as though it has tightened up
completely to the frame. i.e. you can get a fingernail between frame and
cup.

I am wondering whether there has been damage to the bb thread on the
assembly track. Is there another reason why the cup keeps loosening?

This noise shouldn't happen with a £500 bike which has Alu 6061 frame and
Shimano Tiagra components.......

My twelve year old Claud Butler Pagan MTB is very quiet in comparison.

Thanks for your help.

Mick

 

[wheelsgoround]

The shop hasn't set up your bike properly and they have failed to fix the problem.

You are entitled to a refund.

(The mechanic should have made sure that the threads were correctly engaged, and that the cups were adequately torqued. The use of Loctite is also recommended to prevent the parts becoming seized (although in your case with an alu frame this would only apply if the cups were steel) and also to prevent movement and hence creaking)

They've had their chance though; I think it's time to ask for your money back.


Ian

 

[Michael MacClancy]

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 01:38:30 +0100, Mick wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I asked some questions about my new Giant bike in early August and I am
> sorry to come back to the group but the problem has not been sorted...
>
> I have now ridden my Giant FCR 1 for 230 miles and 190 of them have
> been with this creaking noise. This is a cause of embarrassment and utter
> disappointment. The LBS has 1) taken out the bb/ cleaned/greased and
> replaced it....with a note stating " one cup was loose " and 2) replaced the
> bb with a " better quality one " and again noted one of the cups was loose.
>
> I manage to do about 1/2mile from the LBS and the noise returns.
> I have looked at the cup and it doesn't seem as though it has tightened up
> completely to the frame. i.e. you can get a fingernail between frame and
> cup.
>
> I am wondering whether there has been damage to the bb thread on the
> assembly track. Is there another reason why the cup keeps loosening?
>
> This noise shouldn't happen with a £500 bike which has Alu 6061 frame and
> Shimano Tiagra components.......
>
> My twelve year old Claud Butler Pagan MTB is very quiet in comparison.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Mick

Just take it back to the shop and tell them to fix it. If they won't/can't
then ask for your money back.

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter
saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Mick
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I asked some questions about my new Giant bike in early August and I
> am sorry to come back to the group but the problem has not been
> sorted...
>
> I have now ridden my Giant FCR 1 for 230 miles and 190 of them have
> been with this creaking noise. This is a cause of embarrassment and
> utter
> disappointment. The LBS has 1) taken out the bb/ cleaned/greased and
> replaced it....with a note stating " one cup was loose " and 2)
> replaced the bb with a " better quality one " and again noted one of
> the cups was loose.
>
> I manage to do about 1/2mile from the LBS and the noise returns.
> I have looked at the cup and it doesn't seem as though it has
> tightened up completely to the frame. i.e. you can get a fingernail
> between frame and cup.

Right.

There are a number of things here. Aluminium bikes are much more prone
to creaking, in my experience, than steel ones. Again in my experience,
creaking can be reduced by ensuring mating surfaces are greased, and if
they're steel-aluminium joints, greased with copper grease. Finally, in
my experience, it can be hard to track down exactly where creaking
noises come from on a bike, particularly if it's noise which only
happens when you're riding.

What I would do is

(i) grease the seatpost around where it gets clamped in the seat tube;
(ii) disassemble and grease the stem to steerer and stem to handlebar
joints;
(iii) disassemble and grease the crank to bottom-bracket[1] and crank to
pedal joints

ideally using a copper grease. Then ride the bike. If it still creaks
it's definitely the bottom bracket (I'm not saying it isn't, but if you
repeatedly try to fix something and the problem doesn't go away one of
the probable reasons is that you're fixing the wrong thing). So if it
still creaks, replace the bottom bracket with a cartridge-type bottom
bracket.

Of course, the LBS should have done all these things, but if you went in
saying 'it's the bottom bracket' they may not have thought of looking
elsewhere either. Still, I might be inclined to look around for a
different LBS.

Final thought: if the cup is loose (even a tiny bit) then you will be
able to rattle the bottom bracket shaft around in its bearing. If you
can't do this the cup isn't loose even if it looks loose.

[1] Greasing the cranks is controversial. Some people say 'never do
this'. What you certainly mustn't do is retighten them after they've
been on a while. The bolts _will_ seem to work loose over time, but if
you tighten them up again you _will_ ruin your cranks.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Want to know what SCO stands for?
;; http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030605

 

[Pete Biggs]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> Aluminium bikes are much more prone
> to creaking, in my experience, than steel ones.

Could it be that any creaking is just more audible with aluminium frames
because the tubing is that much larger, acting as an acoustic amplifier?
I think so. Just the noise of the chain going over rings and sprockets is
loud on my Ti bike with large-diameter thin tubing. The same drivetrain
was almost silent on a previous frame that was steel, and every little
creak, click and rattle that I occasionally get now sounds loud.

~PB

 

[Jon Senior]

Pete Biggs pblackcherry{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc opined the following...
> Simon Brooke wrote:
>
> > Aluminium bikes are much more prone
> > to creaking, in my experience, than steel ones.
>
> Could it be that any creaking is just more audible with aluminium frames
> because the tubing is that much larger, acting as an acoustic amplifier?
> I think so. Just the noise of the chain going over rings and sprockets is
> loud on my Ti bike with large-diameter thin tubing. The same drivetrain
> was almost silent on a previous frame that was steel, and every little
> creak, click and rattle that I occasionally get now sounds loud.

I think part of it is that Aluminium doesn't have the "give" of steel. A
small amount of flex can absorb energy that you may otherwise hear. This
is the only explanation that I can come up with for why my Giant can
develop some quite irritating creaks and groans which go away after a
good greasing, while none of the steel framed bikes that I've owned made
any noise at all.

Jon

 

[Mick]

Hello again................maybe the prob is sorted

The LBS took some time on my bike today and it appears to have been
solved.......( but I have only done a couple of miles so far )

It was the seat post .........As the LBS said they dont always grease them
at the factory. Well thanks very much Giant......Skimping on this. a
couple of cents saved and an unhappy man for a three weeks. It has rather
tainted the first few rides.....But having said that, now that it is
quiet.........I am very pleased.

thanks to those who replied
Mick

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Mick
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Hello again................maybe the prob is sorted
>
> The LBS took some time on my bike today and it appears to have been
> solved.......( but I have only done a couple of miles so far )
>
> It was the seat post .........As the LBS said they dont always grease
> them at the factory.

H'mmm... pretty much what I thought. If you 'fix' a problem and it
doesn't go away, chances are you fixed the wrong problem.

> But having said that, now that
> it is quiet.........I am very pleased.

Enjoy it!

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/


... a mild, inoffensive sadist...

 

[Jon Senior]

Mick [email protected] opined the following...
> Hello again................maybe the prob is sorted
>
> The LBS took some time on my bike today and it appears to have been
> solved.......( but I have only done a couple of miles so far )
>
> It was the seat post .........As the LBS said they dont always grease them
> at the factory. Well thanks very much Giant......Skimping on this. a
> couple of cents saved and an unhappy man for a three weeks. It has rather
> tainted the first few rides.....But having said that, now that it is
> quiet.........I am very pleased.

Beware the return though! My Giant needs the headset taking apart and
greasing, and the seatpost regreasing whenever the creaks reappear. You
may also find that if your frame has (as mine does) two unthreaded cable
stops attached to the headtube with steel ferrules on the cables, that
when dirt gets into these they start to click / creak when you turn. A
blast of WD40 while turning the bars should help to clear the worst of
it out.

Jon

 

[Mick]

Thanks Jon and Simon