Giro D'Italia 2008 : Stage 21 - June 1st : Cesano Maderno => Milano (ITT), 28.5 km

[Crankyfeet]

Lol.... you see Denia, the mentality of what your up against, just read this reasoned debate above, absolute utter ****.

Shame you can't work to clean up the sport, Mellow J, because you need to keep your own dirty past well hidden. Money can make people ugly inside.

 

[thoughtforfood]

No, that was part of my point. The other part was to question the hypocrisy of the AC haters who slam him for doping while supporting his rivals and to ask why it was okay to support Pantani, Ullrich, Heras, Hamiltion, Vinokourov, Landis etc. yet demonize Armstrong. You say Armstrong's speech about "not believing in miracles" makes you sick but isn't that what the rest of them have effectively said? Haven't all of the top riders denied doping even in the face of positive tests? Didn't they all offer excuses and explanations for irregular results? Armstrong has only spun out the same story as the rest - no better, no worse. Why bother following pro cycling if doping disgusts you - you know they all do it and you know it has always been thus.

I am happy to support one rider over another, or diss another rider because of his loud mouth or style of riding. But I won't delude myself that there is a worldwide masterplan that ensures only those that ride for the Hog are going to evade dope tests and win Grand Tours. AC was a shade better than his rivals this Giro, he didn't perform super-human feats, he didn't blast his opponents apart and he didn't win with any panache - but he won and that's what counts.

As far as the Spanish doctors go, perhaps you can point me in the direction of the countries where doctors routinely fail to give professional cyclists a clean bill of health. I don't recall the medics in the US, the UK, France, Holland or Italy playing a leading role in getting riders disqualified.

I covered that ground in another post.

I love cycling, and I detest the aggressive manner in which Pharmstrong (and by proxy The Hog) went after anyone who dared question them. As to all the others you name, well, I detest them too. Notice that 50% of those you named rode with Pharmstrong? I wanted them all to be clean, they weren't. Not only were they not, but they continued to deny their doping when caught.

If someone is caught and admits their doping, I will drop them off the list.(and I can put anyone on my list I choose. Pharmstrong is at the top, yes, but there are many others) JB is still on it too, and so is any team in which he is the DS.

 

[TheDarkLord]

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!

I've read posts in the past that you invite opinions other than your own to post in these forums. That the people on this forum invite and encourage open debate, but as soon as anyone does post an opinion you don't agree with, you invite them to go elsewhere and insult them.

This is why I don't post very often here, not that I agree with them or disagree with you, but I don't care for the way people with differing opinions are treated as though they are stupid morons and the more common posters have the answer to all things cycling.

This was an ok discussion until suggestions came in that we shouldn't be discussing this and that in the first place; of course the point you refer to above happened in another thread but that doesn't matter. Also, you may or may not have seen the threads here last year; but you definitely need your wits to survive here. It is not for the weak at heart.

 

[thoughtforfood]

Shame you can't work to clean up the sport, Mellow J, because you need to keep your own dirty past well hidden. Money can make men ugly inside.

+1
Ouch!

 

[missile]

Oh... we will miss you and your tiny mental penis....

ok, the circle jerk thing was excessive and lowering myself to your level (can't help myself there sometimes).

With so much criticism and negativity regarding cycling, I have started finding it difficult to even follow the races anymore.

Peace out, for now...

 

[RdBiker]

Both Colom and Kloden were with Contador long enough for him to have good enough legs to manage the rest. Years ago under other JB squads, even Lance had to face his competition, near the latter part of the race, alone.

The climb was the Giau on stage 15. Contador was dropped by the favourites and only caught back because the guys up front didn't really hammer it and he received help from a few other riders from other teams. There he could have really lost the race and Astana can't really have that happen again. Liquigas and LPR had atleast two riders up there at that point.
Contador isn't as dominating as Armstrong was and most times he had IIRC Rubiera or Azevedo to help until the group thinned to 5-10 riders. Contador needs in my opinion a superdomestique who is on the road at a level that Klöden is on paper to be sure of GT wins.

 

[thoughtforfood]

ok, the circle jerk thing was excessive and lowering myself to your level (can't help myself there sometimes).

With so much criticism and negativity regarding cycling, I have started finding it difficult to even follow the races anymore.

Peace out, for now...

For the record, I wish it wasn't so negative also, but I do not believe it is I who am making it negative. It is the riders who continue to dope, and until that is not the norm (and I do believe it still is), I will continue to make reference to it.

"lowering myself to your level"....um....I didn't once refer to taking out my **** and getting it hard, and whacking it in a circle with other guys until you made reference to that particular act (yes I left out the cracker, because really, that is going too far)....maybe you need to look up and not down to find me....

 

[hawkeye87]

The climb was the Giau on stage 15.

Right! Too much sunshine today, the brain fried. I was not able to catch any of that live as I was out of town at a dog show. I had to read about it, instead, which is much different from watching it.

Contador isn't as dominating as Armstrong was and most times he had IIRC Rubiera or Azevedo to help until the group thinned to 5-10 riders. Contador needs in my opinion a superdomestique who is on the road at a level that Klöden is on paper to be sure of GT wins.

Well, he's not doing too badly for his efforts so far having netted 2 GT victories in the past 10 months.

It is amazing how much the media wants to toss him up as so unstoppable.

 

[Crankyfeet]

I just wonder how Vino's going to re-enter this team if his suspension ends this year. I can't imagine him going back to being a domestique within Astana.

 

[hawkeye87]

It will be interesting to see if Bruyneel fights this very hard and if he would win. I would imagine the Kazaks are not completely thrilled with the fact that Bruyneel has taken away some of the National Team composition of Astana.

 

[earth_dweller]

It will be interesting to see if Bruyneel fights this very hard and if he would win. I would imagine the Kazaks are not completely thrilled with the fact that Bruyneel has taken away some of the National Team composition of Astana.

But can Bruyneel even fight it? Isn't he just an employee of a Kazahk owned enterprise? I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that somehow Vino is part owner of the team. Why else did the Kazakh sponsor stay in if not to wait for Vino to come back and get ready for the Olympics using the team as support/training/.... ? Now will Vino stay with the team after the Olympics? Big unknown, but it would be great to see him tackle the Vuelta with Contador in the team, wonder who would be the leader...

 

[coneofsilence]

But can Bruyneel even fight it? Isn't he just an employee of a Kazahk owned enterprise? I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that somehow Vino is part owner of the team. Why else did the Kazakh sponsor stay in if not to wait for Vino to come back and get ready for the Olympics using the team as support/training/.... ? Now will Vino stay with the team after the Olympics? Big unknown, but it would be great to see him tackle the Vuelta with Contador in the team, wonder who would be the leader...

Vino....

 

[earth_dweller]

Vino....

yep, would be great to watch, and imagine the spin coming out too.

 

[EvilJediJ]

How would Vino be able to ride this year? Isn't he serving two years, and four years off a pro tour team like Astana?

 

[hawkeye87]

How would Vino be able to ride this year? Isn't he serving two years, and four years off a pro tour team like Astana?

It is the national federations that set the punishment.

Kazakstan only gave Vino one year so he's back in time to race the Olympics.

Regarding the 4-year rule, that has already been scoffed at by Liquigas in signing Basso for next year. Plus, the Pro Tour is kind of a joke with all the UCI/ASO/RCS battles.

 

[TheDarkLord]

It is the national federations that set the punishment.

Kazakstan only gave Vino one year so he's back in time to race the Olympics.

Regarding the 4-year rule, that has already been scoffed at by Liquigas in signing Basso for next year. Plus, the Pro Tour is kind of a joke with all the UCI/ASO/RCS battles.

Speaking of which, given that there are only 2 months to the Olympics, what is Vino doing these days? If he intends to race in the Olympics, I would imagine that he would have made some move by now?