Giro d'Italia

[superdanuk]

yeah hard to follow a year like that but i have a feeling he'l do something special at the tour. maybe not win it but top3

 

[Virenque]

Top3 where? In a stage or in GC?

 

[musette]

I would sure like to see Il Falco on top 3 GC. I don't know if he can do it, but he has the possibility of doing it.

 

[superdanuk]

top 3 gc i think for savoldelli, route suits him better than giro this year

 

[Virenque]

No way.

 

[superdanuk]

way

its just a hunch ive got admittadly but he may suprise us.

 

[mitosis]

I agree.
Thats why the Hamiltons Danielson etc go to the "lesser" races to gain experience before the big show.
There is nothing intrinsically easier about the Giro. Its just that the TdF is THE big show.
Every stage is ridden as hard as a one day classic (according to riders)
People are very nervous. There is huge pressure, more press etc etc.
But as to the coolness of the race, the Giro for me is the coolest.
Its in Italy which to me intrinsically is a cooler place. I have never been and cant wait to go.
I have been to the Tdf twice and it is insane-in a good way. Its a combo between a rock show, Woodstock, the Super Bowl, and French NASCAR. The Frnech are generally wonderful. But it is the BIG show.

On a relative basis and outright there was nothing easy about this year's giro. The mountain stages are much harder than anything in Le Tour, if not because of the steepness then because there are three and four climbs a day for days in a row.

Comparing race speeds is irrelevant. There are more important factors like attacks climbing that take their toll on riders.

You can introduce any number of ifs you like but unless a rider was actually in the race you cannot try to place him based on how you think he would have gone.

Basso dominated this year's Giro, the hardest in a long time, against serious opposition. If he is in the same form in LeTour it is hard to think he won't be on the podium.

 

[mitosis]

TdF is one level more than Giro and Vuelta. Basso was on TdF podium twice and he dominated the Giro this year and would probably dominated last year as well. I think if Armstrong would come to Giro or Vuelta in the same shape as he was in TdF, he would crash the competition. We can`t talk just about GT winners but about TdF winners and Giro/Vuelta winners. I remember when Simone rode his last TdF, he said that he hate that race and will never come back because it`s simply too tough. I really can`t see Simoni, Cunego and Svaoldelli on TdF podium. At least now.

It is interesting to speculate on how Armstrong would have gone in the Giro. But he wasn't there - ever. Basso won this year's Giro in a canter. If Armstrong were there he may well have been left whinging along with Simeoni. But we will never know.

Whoever wins LeTour this year hopefully will not have to suffer comments that he only won it because LA wasn't there. If LA wants a mention in the results let him turn up and race.

 

[JRMDC]

On a relative basis and outright there was nothing easy about this year's giro. The mountain stages are much harder than anything in Le Tour, if not because of the steepness then because there are three and four climbs a day for days in a row.

Note also that it is generally acknowledged that the racing in the Giro has been harder since the advent of the ProTour. It may not be fair to compare to Giros of 10 or even 5 years ago. Nonetheless, Basso won, dominated, more than that, even! Outstanding GT performance, I would say on a par with any recent TdF winning performance.

 

[gntlmn]

But Cunego, Savoldelli and Simoni were all there to win - and all 3 are past GT winners. Again, how many GT winners did Armstrong ride against in the TdF each time?

Playing devil's advocate here, to some extent

All those GT winners are Giro tour winners, not TdF tour winners. Ullrich was the only one in that category (TdF) this year, and he didn't ride to win.

As we all know, Armstrong has ridden against Ullrich many, many times, and Jan was there to win, unlike in the Giro. Also, the notable current absence of TdF winners is due to the fact that Armstrong has been a dominant champion since 1999. All the other TdF winners besides Jan have retired. So your argument doesn't really apply.

 

[gntlmn]

Balderdash. I seem to recall Vino having a bit of trouble keeping up with Basso in last year's TdF. And Valverde? OK for the retirement last year... let us see this year...

That speaks more for Basso than it does against Vino or Valverde, both of whom are strong riders. Basso is a TdF contender who happens to also value a win in the Giro. I wonder if he'll do it next year, now that he has satisfied his dead mother's wish to win the Giro someday.

Basso made podium last year and the year before in the TdF: 3rd in 2004, 2nd in 2005. His time gap from Armstrong dropped last year too by about 2 minutes. I would consider Basso a tour favorite, if not THE tour favorite.

 

[guncha]

On a relative basis and outright there was nothing easy about this year's giro. The mountain stages are much harder than anything in Le Tour, if not because of the steepness then because there are three and four climbs a day for days in a row.

Wrong! This year's Giro has 2 climbs per crucial mountain stage while TDF has 4 climbs per crucial mountain stage.

 

[Walrus]

Wrong! This year's Giro has 2 climbs per crucial mountain stage while TDF has 4 climbs per crucial mountain stage.

Stage 19 and 20 had 3 or 4 climbs didn't they? I don't think you can judge the difficulty of a stage by how many climbs there are, but how steep, how long, how much time there is to rest, how many consecutive days climbing etc etc. You really think that the Tour climbs are harder than the Giro climbs this year?

 

[guncha]

Stage 19 and 20 had 3 or 4 climbs didn't they? I don't think you can judge the difficulty of a stage by how many climbs there are, but how steep, how long, how much time there is to rest, how many consecutive days climbing etc etc. You really think that the Tour climbs are harder than the Giro climbs this year?

http://www.cyclingforums.com/showthread.php?p=2777357#post2777357
My analysis of the route.

 

[Virenque]

Giro can be harder because of stages, but definitely not because of competition. As someone said before, competition makes GT hard. Stages makes it hard too but it is the second biggest factor. Speed kills!

 

[bobke]

Giro can be harder because of stages, but definitely not because of competition. As someone said before, competition makes GT hard. Stages makes it hard too but it is the second biggest factor. Speed kills!

Ullrich agrees with you:

cyclingnews.com:

"Giro winner Ivan Basso will enter the Tour as the big favourite. "He makes a strong impression," commented Ullrich. "And his CSC team is well-balanced. Ivan is on top of his game. However, I don't think he will win the Tour. The competition is Italy is distinctively weaker than the one in France. And I want to have a say in it, too. (laughs)"

 

[Virenque]

That`s great. I promise I didn`t see that before.

 

[wolfix]

Basso's style of riding is certainly more like Indurain that Armstrong.
I've been watching Basso closely in the mountains especially and his pedalling action and his methid of riding the mountains smacks of Indurain.

Also the fact that Basso hasn't got an explosive acceleration (like Indurain) makes the Basso/Indurain comparison even more accurate.

I think Riis needs to be told his riders style is not as he percieves it to be....


"A former Tour de France winner himself, Riis said that Basso had started to copy seven-time Tour champion Lance Armstrong's riding style during his brilliant mountain performance at the Tour of Italy.

"We saw that Armstrong rode small gears and was very agile on the climbs and that uses your muscles differently and allows you to change pace more easily," Riis said."

Lance's legend lives on...

 

[limerickman]

I think Riis needs to be told his riders style is not as he percieves it to be....


"A former Tour de France winner himself, Riis said that Basso had started to copy seven-time Tour champion Lance Armstrong's riding style during his brilliant mountain performance at the Tour of Italy.

"We saw that Armstrong rode small gears and was very agile on the climbs and that uses your muscles differently and allows you to change pace more easily," Riis said."

Lance's legend lives on...

You didn't see the Giro.
You didn't see Basso riding the Giro.

Basso's position on the bike, his tempo, his tactcial riding in the mountains was closer to Indurain, than Armstrong.
I said it earlier.
But others also remarked on it.

Eurosport commented on this fact throughout - Stage 20 Sean Kelly said and I quote "his style and position is that of Indurain. Basso's climbing looks very smooth. There are no acclerations, he's climbing in the way Miguel used to".

Kelly's always call it right. I'll send you the tape if you don't believe me.

 

[bobke]

You didn't see the Giro.
You didn't see Basso riding the Giro.

Basso's position on the bike, his tempo, his tactcial riding in the mountains was closer to Indurain, than Armstrong.
I said it earlier.
But others also remarked on it.

Eurosport commented on this fact throughout - Stage 20 Sean Kelly said and I quote "his style and position is that of Indurain. Basso's climbing looks very smooth. There are no acclerations, he's climbing in the way Miguel used to".

Kelly's always call it right. I'll send you the tape if you don't believe me.

I think I'll take Riis's word for it Lim.