Giro d'Italia

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by Dead Star, Apr 29, 2006.

  1. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Feel free to do so.

    I'll go with Sean Kelly view and with what I saw too.
     


  2. Dimos

    Dimos New Member

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    Giro vs Tour
    Mountain stages: 8 vs 5
    Summit finishes: 5 vs 3
    Mean distance in mountain stages: 198,6 vs 193,3
    Max steep climb(Kms X percentage) Mortirolo 12,8 X 10,3% vs 11,7 vs 8,7 %
    Number of climbs above 8% slope: 5 vs 1

    Shall I continue?
     
  3. Eldrack

    Eldrack New Member

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    The Giro climbs are steeper and therefore harder, they favour the lighter weight riders more. Steeper it gets, the smaller guys do better. Basso and Gutierrez ain't exactly small, 10 kilos heavier than their main opposition which makes their achievement even greater. They seriously out powered those guys. So when it comes to the Tour, and the speeds are greater on the flats, the climbs aren't as steep then Basso and Co, i.e the heavier guys will flatten the pure climbers even more. If Basso could crush them on the Mortirolo then on Alpe d'Huez he will eat them alive. Plus there are longer timetrials. Because of this I think the tours profile suites the slighty bigger, power riders more than the Giro did. Technically you can say the route is easier. But look at Fleche Wallon etc. "Easy" routes compared to a Giro stage but the sheer pace makes it absolute hell. Same with the tour. Although this years Giro saw much higher average speeds, the tour will still be done a lot faster. That makes it hurt so much more. So I would ignore the difficulty off the route. Both routes had plenty of places for the strong guys to make that difference and so alls good. Its just a case of what type of rider the course suites.
     
  4. Dimos

    Dimos New Member

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    That's true and false. Tour is faster because of:
    a) Geography: More plains, less steep mountains, strong winds.
    b) Publicity: More breakaways (especially from the French teams) so to show their jerseys thus increasing the speed of the peloton as well. Just compare the spirit of the French teams in Tour and their passivism in the Giro. Ullrich comes to Giro for training but noone uses the Tour for any practice.

    Anyway, Basso, Riis and CSC rode this year's Giro a la Tour. Strong team, keeping up the pace, a leader well protected etc.
     
  5. Virenque

    Virenque New Member

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    True. That`s what I`m talking about. No one uses TdF for training, which also proves that competition is better.
    I don`t think there are more breakaways in TdF than in Giro. You have plenty of Italians who go to the brake like French do it in TdF.
     
  6. cyclingheroes

    cyclingheroes New Member

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    I agree, Selle Italia and Panaria are always good for a breakaway, almost every stage...
     
  7. Prano

    Prano New Member

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    I think you are both right. Riis and Basso have studied LA's cadence where he uses a smaller gear, so to be able to ride with different paces on the climb, and to better remain in the same pace when the percentages changes on the climp. If you look at this years Giro you would also see that Basso on occasions rode in smaller gear compared to last years TdF.


    Go to Eurosport.com and see the video clip “Ivan the terrible”, here you in brief, see an acceleration from Basso resembling Lance Armstrong on the climb.


    He also looks like a lot like Indurain, with his calm and easy going style where he doesn't seem to put much struggle in his efforts. I would say, his style looks like Indurain as a result of imbedding LA’s style to his own. But facts are, Basso and Riis have studied Lance’s style not Indurain, and Basso can accelerate if he chooses unlike Jan Ullrich.
     
  8. musette

    musette New Member

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    Agreed. Riis in fact goes so far as to be reported to say that they copied LA's climbing style. And goodness knows that obviously Basso has had occasion to study LA's climbing style during GTs and other races "in action" more than Indurain's style, given that LA was a contemporary of Basso for certain periods.
     
  9. rejobako

    rejobako New Member

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    To synthesize all this, it sounds like Basso has studied Armstrong's technique to emulate and the result is he looks a lot like Indurain.
     
  10. micron

    micron New Member

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    Well, woe betide that any cyclist should want to emulate anyone but St. Lance - it's as if cycling never existed before 1999....
     
  11. micron

    micron New Member

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    You do of course know that Basso has always said that his great cycling idol was Miguel Indurain?
     
  12. rejobako

    rejobako New Member

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    That's really not the point. It is Lance's pedaling style, not Indurain's, that Basso has had plenty of opportunity to try to keep up with in the mountains. It makes sense that he and his team manager would use Armstrong's technique as a model, and they are on record as having done so. Armstrong, in turn, probably owes some of his style to Mig, etc, etc. etc. It's an evolution. You think some are too focused on "all things Armstrong", and that's probably true. Others, however, tend to be too hypersensitive when his name is mentioned in a positive light.
     
  13. Prano

    Prano New Member

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    Yes, I believe it when Riis say that Basso have copied LA's climbing style, I have also seen some resembling in this Giro when Basso rides standing. Having that said, there still is big difference, where it seems LA is pounding on his pedals, Basso is more smooth on his pedals and more calm on his bike, just like Indurain. As far as I remember, Indurain also rode in a relative small gear. In that sense he resembles more Indurain than Armstrong. But again it is because Basso is doing his own "intepretation" of La's style, making it his own style.

    By the way, I'm not a particular Lance Armstrong fan as it might seem, I am more a Basso fan
     
  14. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Yep - Interviewed in 2005 Cycle Sport Basso says "As a teenager, I was introduced to Miguel Indurain during the Giro in 1993. To meet my all time cycling hero was a honour then, and he is still my cycling idol"
     
  15. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    It's an evolution for sure.

    I think that this was the point that Micron was making, Bako.
    What we are seeing with Basso wasn't developed from 1999 : 1999 was a copy of 1990-1996 (Indurain), who in turn was an update upon riders pre 1990.
    I can well recall for example, Stephen Roche pedalling in the very same way as Indurain/Basso pedalled.

    Micron alluded to this issue last week and it's now more evident than ever.
    The majority of people on this site have no knowledge or concept of cycling
    technique, cycling history.
     
  16. rejobako

    rejobako New Member

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    I remember that thread, and I made the same point in response then: I think these terms are being used descriptively. When someone says "Basso is emulating Armstrong's pedaling style", one shouldn't infer a claim that Armstrong's style was an innovation. It simply means that, regardless of how Armstrong came by it, he was the catalyst for Basso's appropriation of the style to his own use.

    I know for a fact that I know less about "the history of cycling pre-1980" than most people on this forum, and that my mountain-biking fetish means that I'm less in-tune with road-bike technique as well. In the context of these discussions, however, I'm not sure an encyclopaedic knowledge of these subjects is necessary to understand that Basso smoked everyone in the Giro because of what he learned from watching Armstrong, who in turn borrowed knowledge gained from watching someone else . . . .
     
  17. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    fair points...........but in re-reading the majority of the contributions to these race threads, it's evident that not only do the majority of contributors not know about cycling tactics, cycle racing technique or cycling history, they also don't wish to be reminded that this sport of ours existed long before 1999.

    And I think you ought to address the point about LA's pedalling action to those here who imply that that style is original to Armstrong.

    It's not original to Armstrong, or Indurain or Roche for that matter : in fact if you really wish to know who that style of riding was developed by, it was a rider from Switzerland called Hugo Koblet known as "le pedaleur du charme", in the late 1940's early 1950's.
     
  18. rejobako

    rejobako New Member

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    Kobler, I think. ;)
     
  19. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

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    You may be confusing Ferdy Kubler 1950 with Hugo Koblet 1951 or maybe I am confused. :confused:
     
  20. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    No.
    You're mistaken.

    You're getting Ferdi Kubler confused with Hugo Kolbet

    It's an easy mistake to make.
     
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