Giro : Stage 11 Pontedera - Pontedera, ITT : 50 kms



Absolutely fantastic. Great rides from Basso and Jan. Scary to think that Jan isn't supposed to be on form just yet but still wins this. Basso will almost certainly win now unless he falls ill or has a bad day. He deserves it, good for him. His TT has vastly improved, but Jan is still the best in this discipline. He and Riis must now have some worries about the Tour. Yes, Jan still has some work to do in the mountains but come July he will be in form and I would doubt that Basso can gain enough time to compensate for the two long TT which an in form Jan will surely eat everyone (for breakfast, lunch and dinner). Go Jan!!!!. It's only 5.15 and I've already cracked open a celebratory drink. Don't think I'll be getting much marking done tonight somehow. I'm so happy!
 
I'm going out to eat 5 steaks and drink 47 pints of German beer to celebrate.... :p

alibat said:
Absolutely fantastic. Great rides from Basso and Jan. Scary to think that Jan isn't supposed to be on form just yet but still wins this. Basso will almost certainly win now unless he falls ill or has a bad day. He deserves it, good for him. His TT has vastly improved, but Jan is still the best in this discipline. He and Riis must now have some worries about the Tour. Yes, Jan still has some work to do in the mountains but come July he will be in form and I would doubt that Basso can gain enough time to compensate for the two long TT which an in form Jan will surely eat everyone (for breakfast, lunch and dinner). Go Jan!!!!. It's only 5.15 and I've already cracked open a celebratory drink. Don't think I'll be getting much marking done tonight somehow. I'm so happy!
 
I'm gonna fill the musette with choclate bars, german beer, sauerkraut, jump in to the leiderhosen.................

Better stop here, I think!
 
whiteboytrash said:
I'm going out to eat 5 steaks and drink 47 pints of German beer to celebrate.... :p
Cheers! By the way, Jan said in an interview that he wasn't riding full at the beginning and than he dicided to give it a go and gave all he had...
 
cyclingheroes said:
Cheers! By the way, Jan said in an interview that he wasn't riding full at the beginning and than he dicided to give it a go and gave all he had...
this bodes well for july.
 
Dead Star said:
this bodes well for july.

well if Jan wasn't giving a go during the start and gave it a big effort at the end i don't think there's that big a difference between basso and jan...
basso lost a lot of his time during the start and gained it at the end

we're in for a terrific TDF this year
 
orhe said:
well if Jan wasn't giving a go during the start and gave it a big effort at the end i don't think there's that big a difference between basso and jan...
basso lost a lot of his time during the start and gained it at the end

we're in for a terrific TDF this year
this bodes well for july :D (well I couldn't think of another reply)
 
whiteboytrash said:
I'm going out to eat 5 steaks and drink 47 pints of German beer to celebrate.... :p


I had my steak and beer last night with my wife and my friend Thomas since he is headed back to Switzerland. It was good that he get another steak before he leaves since he tell me he doesn't eat beef at home. We celebrated early.
As far as Jan goes,I told you that woman was kicking his a** into shape.

"Liebling if you want to see me naked drop the pastry get on that bike and win the TDF".

We all need motivation!
 
bikeguy said:
..Worst situation is headwind with a hill up, that really slows you down. My experience riding agrees with this.

-Bikeguy
not in my experience... a hill usually blocks the wind and because you speed is slower negates a head wind.. a good crosswind on a hill is bad though...
 
What a great ride by derJan!
You could really see he was going fast there at the end.. nice and high cadence. Now if he keeps him self on track til July he'll be the man to beat.. let's hope he doesnt meet to many temptations on the way.

edit: the results were a disaster for the giro though.. Basso can sit behind his team mates to milano at this rate.
 
jonjungel said:
In other news, Rujano lost over 2 minutes at the first time check. He should just go back to focusing on the mountains jersey, IMO.
Rujano.. faster than, Simoni, faster than DiLuca, faster than Schmacher, faster than Cunego, faster than Pellizotti[size=-1] [/size]... etc, etc... like i've said he's not one of the best TT'rs but he's not the worst either... if Rujano should go back to focusing mountain jersey what should Simoni, DuLuca and Cunego do? I think that people just have in there mind... Rujano = small = can't time trial... well you are wrong.. not one of the best but obviously not the worst either.. and his concentration is the Tour not the Giro, so that's the other thing.


I think Jan big made a statement by beating everyone but Basso by over a minute... and in sub maximal form to boot.. but i think Basso made a statement to by being able to be within 30 sec of Ullrich.
 
When I see Jan on fire, my thoughts turn to July, and I begin to sense some pre race hype for the two of them. Basso is so much better at the TT than he was 2 yrs ago. Jan is coming out of his slumber in the Giro. Has it all been a put on for him? Yes, his neck still looks pretty big. Hmmm....

I read somewhere that Basso has adopted the high cadence pedalling style of Armstrong now. Ullrich never did do that, in spite of his knee problems in the past. I sense the coming of a new champion, and they call him The Smiling Assassin.
 
Could we amend this 'high cadence technique of Armstrong's' to the souplesse of riders like Kubler, Coppi, Gaul, Van Impe etc etc etc - this technique has been around forever - and Basso has more souplesse than Armstrong ever had.

Sorry, just really have a thing about the attribution of this technique to Armstrong when it's been around for a long time - just seems sloppy to me to never see past 2000
 
micron said:
Could we amend this 'high cadence technique of Armstrong's' to the souplesse of riders like Kubler, Coppi, Gaul, Van Impe etc etc etc - this technique has been around forever - and Basso has more souplesse than Armstrong ever had.

Sorry, just really have a thing about the attribution of this technique to Armstrong when it's been around for a long time - just seems sloppy to me to never see past 2000

I knew it had been around for a while. Actually, the one whom Armstrong is said to emulate most is Anquetil, a former Tour de France multiple winner.

It would be nice to see some films on coppi, van imp, etc. it's kind of hard to get a good idea of it by reading alone or seeing them in still photos. One guy to look to though is Armstrong. He's been in the limelight for 7 years in a row. So it was pretty easy to observe his fast cadence technique. The others are harder to come by in motion picture.

http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/riders/rider_bio.asp?rider_id=25
 
whiteboytrash said:
I'm going out to eat 5 steaks and drink 47 pints of German beer to celebrate.... :p
jerks, all of you. It is 10:30 in the morning here at work. Just ate three oranges and getting ready for a lunchtime run. I am a long way from steak and beer. Ok, that's taken care of.

What a great TT. Lots of thoughts. Ullrich was amazing. He pedaled a 90-95 cadence so no worries about his knee. He also kept taking little breaks to stretch his legs. His mouth wasn't in the wide open suffer position we see in July... so this bodes well. More on him in a minute

Basso, amazing ride, he looked really fast. great cadence and great turn of speed. Ullrich definitely won the PR battle by winning when he had nothing to ride for but Basso, staying close still means something. As does his crushing of everyone else.

Savoldelli. Decent ride but doesn't have the snap he had for the first week.

Danielson. About what expected. The climbs will be interesting.

The other favorites got crushed. Basically, until last year, the TT wasn't a big deal in the Giro with Simoni, Garzelli, Cunego battles. That's why Gonchar did so well. He is a man among boys in that crowd. Now, with Savoldelli improving his TTing last year and Basso too, now Ullrich there with Mick Rogers etc. Suddenly the TT matters and the Simoni crowd lost what I would generally expect them to lose in a GT TT. They will have to attack and attack big in the mts or hope basso cracks big. Otherwise it is his to lose.

Back to Ullrich. I am so excited. He looked good out there. Interesting, though, his torso looked fat again in the aerobars but his belly was dead flat on the podium. This means, to me, that the wind was going down the neck of his skinsuit. This is a serious problem. One that would cost him 1-2 minutes in a 50k TT. He needs to get that fixed. Perhaps the skinsuit was made for him when he was fat and now it's a touch loose in the neck. Being a tri geek, I read up on aero stuff a lot. A skinsuit that fits right is worth over a minute in a 40k TT so more in a 50k plus the fact that the wind down the neck is an additional penalty. So he could have been 90 seconds to 2min faster with a proper suit. It goes like this, aero position #1, aero wheels #2 (he also didn't have a deep front wheel), skinsuit #3, then aero bike tubes, then helmet. I would say the suit and the front wheel cost over two minutes today. No big deal when training and he still won the stage.

Basso, on the other hand, had cervelo p3 carbon, zipp 999 with ceramic bearings, sweet pink suit, and wind tunnel tested position. This all means that Ullrich's power is up there. A few pounds and he will have good chances come July.

Next..... the big mountains.
 
barnstorm said:
Back to Ullrich. I am so excited. He looked good out there. Interesting, though, his torso looked fat again in the aerobars but his belly was dead flat on the podium. This means, to me, that the wind was going down the neck of his skinsuit. This is a serious problem. One that would cost him 1-2 minutes in a 50k TT. He needs to get that fixed. Perhaps the skinsuit was made for him when he was fat and now it's a touch loose in the neck. Being a tri geek, I read up on aero stuff a lot. A skinsuit that fits right is worth over a minute in a 40k TT so more in a 50k plus the fact that the wind down the neck is an additional penalty. So he could have been 90 seconds to 2min faster with a proper suit. It goes like this, aero position #1, aero wheels #2 (he also didn't have a deep front wheel), skinsuit #3, then aero bike tubes, then helmet. I would say the suit and the front wheel cost over two minutes today. No big deal when training and he still won the stage.

Basso, on the other hand, had cervelo p3 carbon, zipp 999 with ceramic bearings, sweet pink suit, and wind tunnel tested position. This all means that Ullrich's power is up there. A few pounds and he will have good chances come July.

Next..... the big mountains.

I like your commentary because I wasn't able to watch it today. I'm trying to absorb what I can on the net.

Don't you think you're getting pretty generous with those time advantages? After all, if Ullrich is doing a 58 for 50 k, that's already better than the world record for the hour. They must have had a good wind. Then again, the hour requirements for aero advantages are more stringent than the tt's for the tours.

It was good to see some life out of the big german again. he brings a lot of life to the sport in july. all eyes are on him to see if he has what it takes again.
 
doctorSpoc said:
Rujano.. faster than, Simoni, faster than DiLuca, faster than Schmacher, faster than Cunego, faster than Pellizotti[size=-1] [/size]... etc, etc... like i've said he's not one of the best TT'rs but he's not the worst either... if Rujano should go back to focusing mountain jersey what should Simoni, DuLuca and Cunego do? I think that people just have in there mind... Rujano = small = can't time trial... well you are wrong.. not one of the best but obviously not the worst either.. and his concentration is the Tour not the Giro, so that's the other thing.
Yeah, I was a bit too quick there.

I looked at the time at the first checkpoint, and thought "OMG, trouble with the time limit!".


But in the end that wasn't the case at all.
 
Bjørn P.Dal said:
What a great ride by derJan!
You could really see he was going fast there at the end.. nice and high cadence. Now if he keeps him self on track til July he'll be the man to beat.. let's hope he doesnt meet to many temptations on the way.

edit: the results were a disaster for the giro though.. Basso can sit behind his team mates to milano at this rate.
i really don't think so... 6-7min is the kind of time i think that Cunego and Simoni could pull back... but maximally so.. if any rider has a bad day on a mountain stage they can loose 10min easy... so i really think it's going to be close, like last year..

had another look at the stages.. Stage 17 - Plan de Corones brutal but have you looked at stage 19 - Passo di San Pellegrino..? uphill finish 4 rated climb that come towards the end of the stage and it's 224km long!! this has to be the hardest stage of the 2006 Giro... good candidate for the old send 3 team members in the early morning break attack the penultimate climb.. bridge to the break... draft to the foot of the final climb... make major time and hammer the finish... i'm thinking Lampre has the strength to pull this off... but will Cunego have the legs to pull it of... again.. it's how he cemented his 2004 victory.
 
micron said:
Could we amend this 'high cadence technique of Armstrong's' to the souplesse of riders like Kubler, Coppi, Gaul, Van Impe etc etc etc - this technique has been around forever - and Basso has more souplesse than Armstrong ever had.

Sorry, just really have a thing about the attribution of this technique to Armstrong when it's been around for a long time - just seems sloppy to me to never see past 2000
It's Armstrong's technique, not in a possessive sense, but in a descriptive one. We're all cycling fans, but not everyone has been a cycling fan since 2000, and many people are not familiar with the pedaling cadences of bygone legends, so descriptively, it makes sense to associate it with the rider who has used it most successfully most recently.

As for the Giro, I would love to think that Ullrich's improving form makes him a favorite for the TdF, but if Basso is on form, Jan is riding for second place again, in my opinion. Basso has a distinct edge in the mountains -- Jan cannot match Basso's explosiveness, only mitigate his losses as well as possible with his methodical style. Ordinarily, I'd say that advantage is offset by Ullrich's form in the time trials, but as we know, CSC is T-Mobile's equal in the TTT, and since last years TdF Basso has shown he'll only lose seconds, not minutes, to Jan in the ITTs.

I think Jan stands a fair chance of winning the TdF, but only because of the fair chance that something (an illness, tumble, etc.) will befall Basso during the race.

All that being said, it certainly looks significantly brighter for Ullrich fans than it did just a few days ago when everyone was fretting about his "gut".
 
JRMDC said:
Fortunately for those of us who actually enjoy the races in part because we are not sure in advance who will win, no such answers were provided, merely hints.

Or do you mean that you know the outcome of the TdF, but only through stage 15 on the 18th of July? :)

Don't have a crystal ball, nor any spectacular foresight, just common sense. Given how Basso dropped everyone on the first mountain finish, and finished second to the German Diesel in the TT, I can't see how he loses the Giro unless a mechanical, injury, illness, etc.

And given that a "relatively" out of shape Jan (though he could still crush everyone on this forum between his thunderous thighs) humbled everyone today, I think another couple month's of training and weight loss will bode quite well for him. Furhtermore, in the TdF the first mountain stage (his achilles hill) is not an uphill finish, and with lots of ITT (his forte) and no TTT (CSC forte), the course is suited for him. Hence, I predict he wins TdF.

Just my .02...sorry if I offended.

Mark
 

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