Giro : Stage 11 Pontedera - Pontedera, ITT : 50 kms

[limerickman]

I think Basso will have his hands full in the TDF. JU can climb. And he can time trial. And he has a team that will help.
I see something intersting in this Giro. I have never really paid attention to Danielson but he is sitting in 5th place. And isn't he considered a climber? It seems that having 2 climbers in the top 5 could cause problems for Basso when the climbs start eliminating riders.. And open the door for someone else in the top 5 to take advantage of this situation.
What is the situation of CSC's team as far as climbing goes ? [Not Basso of course]

Yes, a very good ride today by Danielson - he went very well today.
Credit where it's due.

Re CSC, they're a tough bunch.
Sastre is a very good climber.
Guys like Lombardi (who completed all three GT's in 2005) will protect Basso.
Julich can do a bit - as can Cuesta.
Not sure about Sorenson's climbing ability.

 

[bobke]

Yes, a very good ride today by Danielson - he went very well today.
Credit where it's due.

Re CSC, they're a tough bunch.
Sastre is a very good climber.
Guys like Lombardi (who completed all three GT's in 2005) will protect Basso.
Julich can do a bit - as can Cuesta.
Not sure about Sorenson's climbing ability.

If Jan can beat Basso handily in a 50 km ITT now, he will be winning by 1-2 minutes at least in the TdF. But hats off to Basso to limit the damage after the first time check and actually pull time back, that says a lot about his improving ITT ability.

In the Tour their will also be Valverde and Landis and others but the race is clearly between Jan and Ivan. Basso predicted Jan would do a great TT today, interesting. Riders in the bunch see so much more than we can ever guess at.

But the steep mountains wont really matter to Jan. H has made his statement. If he has to leave so be it although I really agree with Lim it would be best for him to finish. The time limits will be enormous so no problems there.

I dont think teams are gonna matter. I think Simoni and Cunego have to try to blow the race apart a la Pantani or else they will not even podium. Basso has Sastre. Salvo has Danielson. But here's the problem, if TommyD stays back with Savoldeli Il Falco will drop his ass on the descents.

So I assume a decision will soon be made in the high mountains whether Tom rides for himself for not. I think the pressure could be huge on him but one day could really throw things one direction or the other for DC.

Otherwise the time gaps are enormous. But what about Enrique Gutierrez. Who is gonna catch him or displace him?!?

 

[jhuskey]

Pro racer train to peak within a given few weeks a year. Sometimes they miss the mark.
Armstrong was a master at this. Ullrich is training to peak in July.
It is not a myth that he gets better in the last stages of the tour it is a fact that he is peaking then.
The question is ,who else has their timining right for this season.
Lim, you are correct that the knee injury was an irritation and not as bad as it could have been,but an injury is an injury and a lot rides on that peak I am referring to.
I still maintain it will be a dog fight with Basso and Ullrich,barring injury and illness.

 

[doctorSpoc]

If Jan can beat Basso handily in a 50 km ITT now, he will be winning by 1-2 minutes at least in the TdF... But what about Enrique Gutierrez. Who is gonna catch him or displace him?!?

That TT is proof positive that the aerobic engine is primed for action.. that's the biggest part of the puzzel and he passed with flying colours

Gutierrez.. i can see him on the podium easy... i can't really see him going anywhere.

The only one that can ride with the big boys from CSC is Sastre and that's basically it... all the other teams... Lampre, Liquigas, Disco and T-Mobile all have more help in the mountains... but if you want one person to help you'd want Sastre... consistantly wins tough TdF mountain stages from way out, so he's not unfamiliar with having his head in the wind for hour and over some of the thoughest roads in pro cycling... but Lampre and Liquigas can really put some more complex stategies into play with their larger numbers.. quality vs quantity.

 

[JRMDC]

But here's the problem, if TommyD stays back with Savoldeli Il Falco will drop his ass on the descents.

So I assume a decision will soon be made in the high mountains whether Tom rides for himself for not. I think the pressure could be huge on him but one day could really throw things one direction or the other for DC.

If Danielson is the superior climber, then he can get back on with Savoldelli on the next climb. Savo gets a head start and then gets assistance when Danielson arrives. Or Savo continues on alone - after a point, it is all up to him anyway, and with some of these steep ascents, the speeds are so slow that you don't really need someone to break the wind (but you may need someone to provide a wheel).

So I don't see a problem.

 

[bobke]

Ullrich crossed the line with something in reserve

Basso crossed the line going all out to take time out of his real opposition in this race

Psychological advantage to Ullrich.

Best thing is, it means we might just see a classic duel in July this year - which is exactly what the TdF needs to reinvigorate it after the somewhat dull and predictable Armstrong years.

I didnt see it live and the few pics I have seen on velonews show Jan all out but of course he is all out, at 51 km/hr!
Basso looked pretty cool in the pics but he also sprinted past Cunego in the last 500 meters so I am sure he was over the top.

Any more comments or pics though would be great.
\
In any case, advantage to Jan? Absofreekinlutely!!!!

 

[Dimos]

Ullrich needed this win it seems he is in the right track despite all the earlier drawbacks.
Basso showed that he improved too from last year in his TTing.
Simoni rode as good as he could. Di Luca and Rujano the same. Cunego supposedly rides better on TT but he failed to make an impact today.
A great Guttierez Cataluna; he took advantage of his big motor. Pinotti honoured his national jersey on the event and send me to the cashier . Honchar, Savoldelli and Voigt just did their usual performances.
It will be interesting to see how the CSC will going to defend their lead on the mountains. I think that they would control any break from the main contenders despite they have an important time deficit.

About the Jan vs Ivan at the Tour subject I wouldn't be certain for anything. I don't know even the profiles of the 2 big TTs of the TDF. And especially the second (on the penyltimate day) I suspect it is on a hilly terrain something that I think it won't make big time gaps between them.

 

[mitosis]

yeah I mean Jan is great but it looks like the wind is really killing people, but the rule of thumb is
if you have to fight a headwind all the way out, you will not make up the lost time because you will be so shot from the first 30 minutes of effort that no tailwind will recoup the losses.

Same reason Jan beat Lance in the ITT in Sydney, start times...

I was there. I didn't notice much change in the wind.

I suppose its too much for you to allow LA to be beaten by a better rider.

 

[cPritch67]

I see something intersting in this Giro. I have never really paid attention to Danielson but he is sitting in 5th place. And isn't he considered a climber? It seems that having 2 climbers in the top 5 could cause problems for Basso when the climbs start eliminating riders.. And open the door for someone else in the top 5 to take advantage of this situation.

We have been hearing about TD for almost 2 years and what a pure natural climber he is. Accorinding to DC, he flies up the mtns, broke LA's training time on the climb near Nice, etc. Well, he sure didn't show up on the first moderate climb (although he did come back to assist Savodelli after being dropped), and with the big mountains ahead, he needs to show some of this talent. I'm pulling for the kid, but he needs to step up now. This is the BIGS and here is his shot.
It will be interesting to see DC's tactics with him and Sav next to each other on GC. I say they give TD free reign. Afterall, Savo didn't have any help last year (aside from Basso getting ill).

 

[chrisl]

Saw 2 hrs coverage this morning here in Mexico on the Italien channel RAI - was awesome (actually recorded it on DVD too...will be great motivation watching it using the trainer...)

I'm a big Jan fan - especially after reading his book, which certainly made learning German worthwhile... a real nice guy. A huge contrast to how LA comes across in his second book...
Quite honestly when I was watching him this morning I thought he wasn't going that well - didn't look that fast and certainly didn't look like he was putting in much effort, but I guess that's great and why he said he said "it went well and I'm unbelievably happy". He should be in sizzling form by July if he has no furthers problems and can shed a few kilos.... can't wait...

I hope Basso wins the Giro...he's certainly looking good but I think we'll see a real barrage of attacks in the big mountains coming up, as happened to Lance in 2003. That certainly got him in trouble and I hope Basso keeps his cool and doesn't try to follow everything or he'll be fried. He's certainly not untouchable in the mountains... at last year's TDF in Courchevel he was left by Lance, Valverde and Rasmussen on the final climb.

Perfect would be Basso to win Giro and Jan 'Le Tour'...oh and England for the World Cup....

 

[mitosis]

Could we amend this 'high cadence technique of Armstrong's' to the souplesse of riders like Kubler, Coppi, Gaul, Van Impe etc etc etc - this technique has been around forever - and Basso has more souplesse than Armstrong ever had.

Sorry, just really have a thing about the attribution of this technique to Armstrong when it's been around for a long time - just seems sloppy to me to never see past 2000

I agree. I feel sorry for all the posters who have only got Armstrong to use as a reference point and who don't understand that there have been, there are now and will be in the future better cyclists than LA.

Cycling has been around for more than 8 years.

 

[Rhubarb]

I agree. I feel sorry for all the posters who have only got Armstrong to use as a reference point and who don't understand that there have been, there are now and will be in the future better cyclists than LA.

Cycling has been around for more than 8 years.

How big of you! What an innovative way to grow the sport and to encourage more people to follow and participate in it. Feel sorry for them!

I feel sorry for those whose egos appear to be so big they cannot see anything else.

What are new fans meant to do? Just give up because they will never know all there is about cycling. Be quiet and keep to themselves?

Sure by all means educate fans who haven't been involved in cycling for as long as some, its probably why most posters are here in the first place, to suck up as much cycling as they can get. But don't get all high and mighty and belittle them. Any fool can do that.

 

[tinks]

I was hoping for it, but didn't quite expect it.

Very nice win by Jan. I think this might be T-Mobile's first Pro Tour win for the season as well.

 

[orhe]

man guys are ignoring the fact that Jan went all out after the first time check where Basso lost 40 seconds!

basso regained 12 seconds w/ Jan going at 100%

their time trial abilities are a lot closer than 28 seconds

 

[Jono L]

How big of you! What an innovative way to grow the sport and to encourage more people to follow and participate in it. Feel sorry for them!

I feel sorry for those whose egos appear to be so big they cannot see anything else.

What are new fans meant to do? Just give up because they will never know all there is about cycling. Be quiet and keep to themselves?

Sure by all means educate fans who haven't been involved in cycling for as long as some, its probably why most posters are here in the first place, to suck up as much cycling as they can get. But don't get all high and mighty and belittle them. Any fool can do that.

Amen to that.

 

[Rob81]

man guys are ignoring the fact that Jan went all out after the first time check where Basso lost 40 seconds!

basso regained 12 seconds w/ Jan going at 100%

their time trial abilities are a lot closer than 28 seconds

INDEED, so dont overhype JU performance.
My .02 he'll not end this Giro , but i'd like to see him on the Mortirolo!

 

[guncha]

Very amazing stage. I am glad Giro has long ITT and it is not based on Mountain stages only. For instance, Vuelta has two rather short ITT's and it is boring that it is mountains tour only. I like mountain stages but Times Trailers must have their chances...



Cunego was 1.48 down before this stage and now he is 6.54 down. Amazing! Only one of Basso's major rivals (Savaoldeli) is within 3.30 and all the others lose 7 minutes and more. Even more amazing! I can't remember that Lance had such a big advantage after one ITT and one mountaintop finish. Lance usually was 6 or 7 minutes ahead in Paris... Basso destroys crowd in even more impressive way...



However, Giro is not over yet and rivals still have some hope but they have no chance without a bad day from Basso.



On the other hand, it took me time to think about TDF time trials. In last year's TDF ITT Jan got 1.30 on Basso. In theory Jan should get less time because Basso is improving. But if Jan wasn't in top condition yesterday maybe he wasn't in his top condition in 2005 as well. Therefore, if he will ride his TDF ITT's even better the gap definitely won't lesser...

 

[whiteboytrash]

Just re-watched todays ITT : brilliant to see DerJan back on the winners podium.

Lim: I watched the stage last night and what impressed most about Jan was him on the podium. He looked throughly chuffed with himself and seem really happy... I saw footage of him on the poduin in the Tour de Sussie in 2004 and he looked like he had the wait of the world on his shoulders.... yesturday he looked to be really enjoying his victory and really happy with himself...

 

[limerickman]

Lim: I watched the stage last night and what impressed most about Jan was him on the podium. He looked throughly chuffed with himself and seem really happy... I saw footage of him on the poduin in the Tour de Sussie in 2004 and he looked like he had the wait of the world on his shoulders.... yesturday he looked to be really enjoying his victory and really happy with himself...

I didn't see TdS 2004 but I did see JU's podium at the TDF ITT when he was with Bianchi in 2003.

Yesterday his podium demeanour reminded me of his TDF 2003 ITT demeanour.
As you say, he looked really happy and relaxed.
A good sign.

 

[limerickman]

Lim: I watched the stage last night and what impressed most about Jan was him on the podium. He looked throughly chuffed with himself and seem really happy... I saw footage of him on the poduin in the Tour de Sussie in 2004 and he looked like he had the wait of the world on his shoulders.... yesturday he looked to be really enjoying his victory and really happy with himself...

Yesterdays ITT result must have been a catastrophe for you know who :

see message 222 here http://www.cyclingforums.com/t-324670-15-15.html