Give him a medal

[mattic]

Wow! You really are an interesting case. You now have 3 staggeringly
illogical viewpoints. I wonder how many more there are.

"Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "mattic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Why are you trying to impose your views on others. Why
>> are you dictating that they should bottom post? That is
>> grossly insulting to me.
>
> I'm not dictating it at all. It is simply convention in the majority of
> groups, including this one. People can top post all they like, it just
> means I won't give their posts the same consideration.
>
> Ivor
>
>

 

[mattic]

Whoops! You just joined him.

"Brimstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> "mattic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> Why are you trying to impose your views on others. Why
>>> are you dictating that they should bottom post? That is
>>> grossly insulting to me.
>>
>> I'm not dictating it at all. It is simply convention in the majority of
>> groups, including this one. People can top post all they like, it just
>> means I won't give their posts the same consideration.
>
> Agreed.
>

 

[mattic]

"Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Because you have offered no explanation as to why. Make a
>> sound, logical (or emotional, if you like) argument and
>> I'll simply agree to disagree.
>
> I don't have to offer an explanation. I have actually done so

Help me out here, say it again because I have obviously missed it. Should
you do this effectively, I will say no more. But I am expecting something
quite spectacularly good. A"because I say so" is not going to cut it, mush.

 

[Christian McArdle]

> You'll still stop calling me what I am not before I stop complaining about
> it.

You are quite hilarious. Just because you don't want to be European doesn't
mean you aren't one. If I said you had two legs and you claimed you had
three, then you would still have two legs. You don't get to choose.

Christian.

 

[Brimstone]

Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Brimstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
> [snip]
>
>> Perhaps you need to go back to the start of this
>> sub-thread. You started getting excited over nothing and
>> the more excited you got more and more people started
>> asking. You are the author of your own misfortune.
>
> Even if I were, you can stop. The fact that you won't indicates you
> are an unpleasant person. Are you proud of that..?

I take pride in not allowing people to get away with untruths.

>
>> You can either tell the whole story or you can stay
>> quiet. Your choice.
>
> I am not getting excited over nothing. Being called something I am
> not and regard as a gross insult is far from nothing.

It was nothing when you started bawiling and shouting about not being a
European. You've chosen to continue the discussion.

 

[Brimstone]

Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Brimstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Ivor Jones wrote:
>>
>>> You are deciding from what you believe to be evidence,
>>> that I am a European..! I repeat, you do not have that
>>> right.
>>
>> No one is claiming it as any sort of "right". We're
>> simply making a statement of immutable fact.
>
> It is not a fact.

It doesn't matter how far you stick your head in the sand, you can't change
a simple fact.

> Even if it were, you should respect my wishes by not
> doing so. I have asked you not to enough times.

So stop distorting the truth.

 

[mattic]

"Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Being called something I am not and regard as a gross insult is far from
> nothing.

What don't you like about Europeans?

 

[mattic]

"Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Brimstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
> [snip]
>
>> Why should anyone not call you what you are? Do you
>> object to being called a man?
>
> Nobody is calling me what I am

Not even you, Ivor.
Why don't you?

 

[Alex Heney]

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:51:14 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Alex Heney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>
>[snip]
>
>> You have never explained it except by stating falsehoods
>> (such as stating that you can only be a "native" of a
>> "country").
>
>You say it is a falsehood. I say it isn't.

Well it certainly is not true.

You can be a native of anything that is defined as a place.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
He's ALIVE, Jim. Where did I go wrong?
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

 

[Alex Heney]

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:47:41 +0100, "Brimstone"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Ivor Jones wrote:
>> "Brimstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> "Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Brimstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]
>>>>> Ivor Jones wrote:
>>>>>> "Brimstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]
>>>>>>> Ivor Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Brimstone" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>>>>> message news:[email protected]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why do you not want to be called something
>>>>>>>>> that you are?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because I am not what you believe me to be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you believe I believe you to be?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A European, of course. But then you knew that.
>>>>>
>>>>> So if you're not European, from which continent or
>>>>> other geographic region of the world do your forebears
>>>>> originate?
>>>>
>>>> Irrelevant. Whether they are or were European or not
>>>> does not mean I am.
>>>
>>> Wrong, you can't be anything other than what your parents
>>> were.
>>
>> Don't be so daft. You have already been proven wrong by others on that
>> particular theme.
>
>Not so.

Yes you have.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
It's not an optical illusion. It just looks like one.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

 

[Adrian]

Alex Heney ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

> You can be a native of anything that is defined as a place.

Quite. Just ask any proud Yorkshireman, Cornishman or Geordie.

 

[Alex Heney]

On 20 Aug 2006 09:12:00 GMT, Adrian <[email protected]> wrote:

>Alex Heney ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
>saying :
>
<snip>

>>
>> I suspect the country you are thinking of is the country called "The
>> United States of America".
>
>Commonly referred to as America - and residents of said country being known
>as "United Statesians?"

No more than the citizens of the United Kingdom are known as "United
Kingdomians".
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
The buck doesn't even slow down here!
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

 

[Alex Heney]

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:31:20 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>"Brimstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> "Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> > I don't have to offer an explanation. I have actually
>> > done so, but you refuse to accept it, in exactly the
>> > same way I refuse to accept being called a European.
>>
>> You have given no explanation as to why your are not
>> European. Please feel free to do so.
>
>I have done so. Ad nauseum. You refuse to accept my explanation. Your
>problem.

You have never given any explanation at all.

The closest you have ever come to explaining it is to say you are not
one.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
A procrastinator's work is never done.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

 

[Alex Heney]

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:45:21 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>"Alex Heney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:09:01 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

>
>> Do you actually believe the word has any meaning at all?
>
>Of course.
>
>> And if it does, then what?
>
>It means pertaining to or relating to Europe. I am not of Europe nor do I
>pertain or relate to it.
>

If you live somewhere, then you relate to that place.

If you were born somewhere, then you relate to that place.

Are you saying you do not live in Europe, and you were not born there?


--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Oxymoron: Safe Sex.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

 

[Alex Heney]

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:55:31 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Alex Heney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 16:52:21 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> > I do not relate to the
>> > continent known as Europe, therefore I cannot be a
>> > European.
>> >
>>
>> Of course you "relate" to it.
>
>I most certainly do not.
>
>Ivor
>
>>
>> You were born in that continent (unless you consider the
>> continent of Europe to only be the main land mass, and
>> not to include the outlying islands such as Great
>> Britain).
>>
>> And you live in that continent.
>
>I most certainly do not. I live in a country that is in it, but that is a
>different thing. So terribly sorry that you don't like it.
>

Sorry, but you can't just decide to completely alter the meaning of
simple English just because you don't like what it means.

If you live in a country that is in Europe, then you live in Europe.

You cannot alter that fact, and being "insulted" by that simple fact
is just stupid.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
The brain you have reached is out of order at this time.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

 

[Alex Heney]

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:39:24 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>"Brimstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> Ivor Jones wrote:
>> > "Brimstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]
>> >
>> > [snip]
>> >
>> > > It's got nothing to do with likes and dislikes, it's a
>> > > simple matter of what is or is not.
>> >
>> > And who decides what is or is not..? You..? I don't
>> > think so.
>>
>> It determined at birth, if not before. It is not a matter
>> of choice or decision.
>
>It is exactly that.
>
>> >
>> > *I* decide as far as I'm concerned.
>>
>> Did you decide your gender or the colour of your hair or
>> of your skin?
>
>No. But those aren't under discussion. You are deciding for me what I am.
>You do not have that right. You are trying to absolve yourself of
>responsibility by saying it is not a matter of choice, but you are still
>making decisions you have no right to make.

It is NOT a matter of choice.

You may not WANT to relate to Europe, but you have no choice in the
matter.

If you live in a country that is a part of Europe, then you live in
Europe. And you simply cannot choose to not class as living in Europe
when you do.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Do the joke. Get the laugh. Move on.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

 

[David Taylor]

On 2006-08-21, Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Brimstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>> Does someone have to agree the colour of their hair
>> before it becomes fact (putting aside people who choose
>> to change their hair colour)?
>
> Why put them aside..?
>
> It is an individual's choice to be called or not to be called what they
> want/don't want to be. Whether you like it or not, respect them.

Please answer the question, rather than continuing to ignore it.

--
David Taylor

 

[David Taylor]

On 2006-08-21, Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Adrian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Ivor Jones ([email protected]) gurgled happily,
>> sounding much like they were saying :
>>
>> > > It's a geopolitical fact that you, as a national of a
>> > > European country, are a European.
>>
>> > Wrong. I do not take definitions from continents, I
>> > take them from countries.
>>
>> Sorry, but that's just not your choice.
>
> Sorry, but it is.

It obviously isn't. Look: You're European.

>> You might not
>> *choose* to describe yourself as a European, but you are.
>
> I am not. You do not have the right to describe me as anything.

I most certainly do. You're English. You're alive (somehow).
You're stubborn. You're silly. You're quite possibly a troll.
You're getting repetitive and boring. You're European.

Now explain to me what right I lack to say any of those things
(ignoring the last, since I realise you have an illogical aversion
to that particular fact).

--
David Taylor

 

[Ian Dalziel]

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:12:46 +0100, Alex Heney <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Sorry, but you can't just decide to completely alter the meaning of
>simple English just because you don't like what it means.

Are the roads in Europe dangerous?

--

Ian D

 

[Mark Foster]

In article <[email protected]>,
"mattic" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Mark Foster" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:m.e.fosterREMOVEMEFIRST-CA5B80.23412720082006@no-dns-yet-212-23-3-119.zen
> .co.uk...
> >
> > Yes it is. You introduced lineage into the argument (see above) and now
> > you don't like where it has taken you. Using your own argument, if
> > Americans and Australians are European by virtue of their lineage then
> > you are African by virtue of yours. So now explain why you consider
> > yourself English, British and European but not African?
>
> It all depends on whether you weant to take things to their pedantic,
> ****-headed, back-to-the-beginning-of-time conclusion; or if you want to
> discuss, reasonably, a concept that is very much current and understandable.
>
> In anticipation, I'll say, "You choose, Arsehead," though I hope I'm wrong.

If he is going to apply the lineage argument to the Americans and
Australians then he must apply the same argument to himself. In that
case it would make him (and them) African yet, for reasons of his own,
he chooses NOT to label himself as such.

I am quite happy for him to admit that he is actually wrong and that the
lineage argument has no place in a discussion on nationality (as opposed
to ethnicity) but anyone who knows Brimstone also knows that simply
ain't gonna happen.

--
"There are no such useless words as, 'I didn't have a chance.'"
[Driving, HMSO]