Global Warming - A real viable threat or scientific rhetoric?

[jaguar75]

Here is a topic that I don't think I have seen discussed...I am curious to hear the libs opinion on this...I think I know what it already is but I would love a new topic....

 

[roadhog]

Here is a topic that I don't think I have seen discussed...I am curious to hear the libs opinion on this...I think I know what it already is but I would love a new topic....

Regardless of anybody's stance, I highly recommend Michael Crichton's book State of Fear. Of course the book itself is fiction, but relies heavily on and references many factual scientific studies and really sheds some light on the intricacies of the debate from both sides in the scientific / environmental protection communities.

 

[lumpy]

Here is a topic that I don't think I have seen discussed...I am curious to hear the libs opinion on this...I think I know what it already is but I would love a new topic....

I don't think there is much left to speculate. Scientists have repeatedly shown it's happening, and the most telling is what's happening in the Arctic and Antarctica where the temp has gone up 11°. Sea level has already increased - especially in the mid Pacific.

 

[roadhog]

I don't think there is much left to speculate. Scientists have repeatedly shown it's happening, and the most telling is what's happening in the Arctic and Antarctica where the temp has gone up 11°. Sea level has already increased - especially in the mid Pacific.

"Is it happening?" is not the only relevant question. Perhaps more interesting is WHY it is happening if it is. There are many people back up by quite a bit of evidence who argue that it is happening as a matter of due course in the lifespan of the earth (i.e. nothing we can control).

It is exceedingly difficult to wade through any scientific argument on this matter. This is like the argument that defines the notion that statistics will tell you whatever story you want to hear. And much money involved in the arguments too, between environmental groups, lobbyists, researchers (who live on funding), etc. You essentially can't believe any body or their numbers.

 

[jaguar75]

"Is it happening?" is not the only relevant question. Perhaps more interesting is WHY it is happening if it is. There are many people back up by quite a bit of evidence who argue that it is happening as a matter of due course in the lifespan of the earth (i.e. nothing we can control).

It is exceedingly difficult to wade through any scientific argument on this matter. This is like the argument that defines the notion that statistics will tell you whatever story you want to hear. And much money involved in the arguments too, between environmental groups, lobbyists, researchers (who live on funding), etc. You essentially can't believe any body or their numbers.

Amen Roadhog...You hit the nail on the head...Extremist lobby groups want you to believe that we are destroying our planet...but what they won't tell you or let you see is that the environmental shift of this planet is clockwork...there have been multiple ice ages in recorded history and the planet "routinely" "clenses" itself.

The other thing that I love is that when they show pictures of the hole in the ozone layer during the summer months and how big it is and they say ohh my god look at what we are doing but they won't show you pictures of the hole in the winter months and reveal to you the fact that the hole is completely closed. Its so funny how people tell you only what they want you to hear to support their story.

 

[ryan_velo.]

So the massive amounts of filth we are spewing into the air has no relevancy?

 

[lumpy]

What if the "extremist lobby groups" as you call them are right? Wouldn't it be a kind of good idea to err on the safe side?

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/global_warming/index.cfm

There have been many ice ages, that resulted in mass die off's and sea levels dropping. Here we're talking of ice sheets melting and the sea level rising.

Since more than 80% of the worlds population lives along a shore of an ocean, I can't help but see at least an economic catastrophy as flooding spreads inland. It will effect all of us even in middle America.

Here is what is projected to happen in Iowa:
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/global_warming/page.cfm?pageID=1306

I doubt the Union of Concerned Scientists is much of an "extremist lobby group".

 

[MountainPro]

So the massive amounts of filth we are spewing into the air has no relevancy?

if we all worked togther and come up with some kind of agreement...Kyoto for instance...it would be a lot easier.

But its bad for business so sod that.

 

[darkboong]

Regardless of anybody's stance, I highly recommend Michael Crichton's book State of Fear. Of course the book itself is fiction, but relies heavily on and references many factual scientific studies and really sheds some light on the intricacies of the debate from both sides in the scientific / environmental protection communities.

I suggest you read the New Scientist's review of that book. It's quite revealing, Crichton completely misrepresented the work he drew from (for and against).

 

[jaguar75]

What if the "extremist lobby groups" as you call them are right? Wouldn't it be a kind of good idea to err on the safe side?

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/global_warming/index.cfm

There have been many ice ages, that resulted in mass die off's and sea levels dropping. Here we're talking of ice sheets melting and the sea level rising.

Since more than 80% of the worlds population lives along a shore of an ocean, I can't help but see at least an economic catastrophy as flooding spreads inland. It will effect all of us even in middle America.

Here is what is projected to happen in Iowa:
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/global_warming/page.cfm?pageID=1306

I doubt the Union of Concerned Scientists is much of an "extremist lobby group".

I have no problem with polution control because I don't like to smell factories and it is nausiating, I do have a problem with polution control because it is destroying the planets atmosphere...this is absolute and utter ********...The Aurora Borialis "Northern Lights" is not just some pretty light show...it is hundreds of millions of metric tons of radiation...are you going to sit there and tell me that we are doing more damage to our atmosphere from the inside than the sun could do from the outside?

This is the equivilant of walking up to the Hoover Dam with a garden hose and spraying it and then being told that you are starting to damage the concrete becasue paint is starting to come off and the hole structure could become unstable...

There have been many ice ages, that resulted in mass die off's and sea levels dropping. Here we're talking of ice sheets melting and the sea level rising.

If my memory serves me correctly what do you think happens before an ice age...where do you think the ice that covers the planets surface comes from?

 

[Darjevon]

The Aurora Borialis "Northern Lights" is not just some pretty light show...it is hundreds of millions of metric tons of radiation

You F___ing idiot. Radiation cannot be measured in tons. And, It is neutralized completely by the atmosphere, and affects its normally very stable equilibrium for only a few seconds.

Polluted gases and Co2, however, are another matter. they remain in the atmosphere for a long time, and even though the solid particles will be dragged down by precipitation, they will fall as acid rain. The pure gases will remain in the atmosphere, wreaking havoc and ruin.

Next, the world may routinely "cleanse" itself, but that doesn't change the fact that ice ages kill off most of the population when they do occur. But, of course you'll be fine, cause you can drive your hummer over the snow and continually provide heat for yourself by slowly burning the contents of the Hummer's gas tank, for the numerous thousands of years of ice that you and your descendants will have to endure.

 

[Darjevon]

let me suggest a new forum for you, jaguar:
www.stormfront.org

 

[wilmar13]

Sea level has already increased - especially in the mid Pacific.

Regardles of whether it is real or not, this makes absolutely no sense to me. Surface tension, tides, gravity, and a bunch of other things makes this impossible... doesn't it???

 

[davidmc]

let me suggest a new forum for you, jaguar:
www.stormfront.org

You tell em' Darjevon. He starts out the thread innocently enough then, when someone makes a remark about there not being enough evidence or some such other tripe, he retorts "Thats what I'm saying..." I thought everyone knows that this soapbox is populated by geniuses, guess not. I look at it as the people who say the odds are better if one live's as "if" theres' a god. Well...why don't we live as "if" we are going to suffocate on all of the synthetic (not naturally occurring) poisons we spew into the atmosphere. They must be living by Anne Coulter's (Christian ) maxim:" The Earth, Take it, Rape it I agree w/ Jag on some issue's but, not this one.

 

[MountainPro]

Regardles of whether it is real or not, this makes absolutely no sense to me. Surface tension, tides, gravity, and a bunch of other things makes this impossible... doesn't it???

i thought the same thing when i read that...how can the sea level in the Pacific be higher than anywhere else?

Crazy logic.

 

[roadhog]

I suggest you read the New Scientist's review of that book. It's quite revealing, Crichton completely misrepresented the work he drew from (for and against).

I'm sure that could be true. You'll notice I pointed out the work was fiction. I didn't walk away from that book with any changed opinion, and I haven't claimed to support either side here. It remains that many interesting facts are used to spur along the ridiculous fictional plot. I simply enjoyed seeing some of the facts. Period.

 

[lumpy]

Regardles of whether it is real or not, this makes absolutely no sense to me. Surface tension, tides, gravity, and a bunch of other things makes this impossible... doesn't it???

Actually it doesn't. Warm water expands in relation to cold water. The sun heats up the equatorial region more and causes expansion. The problem is that since the avg. global temp has risen, there is more heat going into the sea. Islands in many parts of the Pacific are threatened with "going under".

more here:
http://www.earthisland.org/eijournal/sum2000/ov_sum2000sinkingisles.html

 

[jaguar75]

You F___ing idiot. Radiation cannot be measured in tons. And, It is neutralized completely by the atmosphere, and affects its normally very stable equilibrium for only a few seconds.

Polluted gases and Co2, however, are another matter. they remain in the atmosphere for a long time, and even though the solid particles will be dragged down by precipitation, they will fall as acid rain. The pure gases will remain in the atmosphere, wreaking havoc and ruin.

Next, the world may routinely "cleanse" itself, but that doesn't change the fact that ice ages kill off most of the population when they do occur. But, of course you'll be fine, cause you can drive your hummer over the snow and continually provide heat for yourself by slowly burning the contents of the Hummer's gas tank, for the numerous thousands of years of ice that you and your descendants will have to endure.

Darjevon, I am going to give you an opportunity to pull your head out of your ass and actually post a reply that is not filled with child'ish insults and bad information. Here is a link that you can read about what the Northern Lights are made of. I was wrong about one thing...how much the radiation/particals atcually way. Like I said in my original post "as my memory serves"http://www.venhaus1.com/photographaurora.html
Another thing the particals are not nuetralized, They create as much energy as several nuclear explosions. Do you know what plasma is? I suggest you look that up as well...The next thing you are going to tell me is air has no weight and is not measured either...and I hope you don't continue to make yourself look stupid by saying that. ALL MATTER no matter how big or small has mass and guess what genious weight is directly proportionate to mass...maybe you should have smoked less pot in high school and payed more attention in chemistry class
Why don't you wake up and stop your green peace thinking. Humans are not that big and important in the cosmic realm and certainly not when it comes to destroying this planet...This planet will rid of us in due time and there is nothing a tree hugger or Hummer driver(which I don't drive) can do about it!

 

[wilmar13]

Actually it doesn't. Warm water expands in relation to cold water. The sun heats up the equatorial region more and causes expansion. The problem is that since the avg. global temp has risen, there is more heat going into the sea. Islands in many parts of the Pacific are threatened with "going under".

more here:
http://www.earthisland.org/eijournal/sum2000/ov_sum2000sinkingisles.html

You clamed the water level has risen, not the temp. If you would have said temp it would have made sense.

 

[lumpy]

You clamed the water level has risen, not the temp. If you would have said temp it would have made sense.

Yeah, you're right - sorry

The sea level has risen due to the increase of heat the seas are holding.