Global warming



Piotr said:
Never been there before?! You must've been around a loooong time. :)

Reminds me of (paraphrasing): The sun will turn dark, the moon will turn into blood, and the stars will fall from the sky in the terrible day of the Lord.

It's time to get biblical people! :D
Scoff not at this, build your home high above the plains, make provision for the days to come, as sure as sun follows moon and moon follows sun, it is inevitable.

Science, modern claptrap, political bias, paid to speak, maybe 1000 years will be same argument, mankind not learn by his mistakes, if mankind still exists as dominant species, doubt he will progress more than hunting food, fighting fellow tribes people, shitting in his own nest.

Sad, Sad, Sad.
 
Piotr said:
Small correction: Science doesn't tell us squat. It's the scientists who depend on government funding that tell us those things. As to science, well, let's find a lone dessenter, because those have historically been right.

Isn't it convenient to predict things 50-100 years in the future where there will be no one to be held liable for that error. If those alarmists are so educated on "global warming" perhaps they could throw us a bone and predict something for the next, say 10 years. Ah wait, they have done that in the past. Unfortunately, they've been so laughably wrong that they thought better of it.

The fact of the matter is the scientists reported in 2000 that global warming was happening.
At that stage the science showed that global warming was taking place.

In Paris, last month, 2,600 scientists reviewed the new data updating what was reported in 2000, and that it was correct and that the rate of global warming and the cause of global warming is carbon emissions and greenhouse gases.
The science is not in dispute.
Global warming is a fact.

The only dispute now is how do we address the issue of how to reduce greenhouse gases and carbon emissions.
 
Even if we did try to stop all of this it would still happen because of the carbon in the air. It is trapping to much heat and raising the tempurature of the world by about 1.1- 3.8 degrees celcius which will for sure help the ice melt and more violent storms happen on this planet. Were pretty much screwed as the scientist's were saying that it could raise the sea level by up to about 3.8 meters. So where would you hide, we all can't fit on the mountains.
 
steve_18798 said:
Were pretty much screwed as the scientist's were saying that it could raise the sea level by up to about 3.8 meters. So where would you hide, we all can't fit on the mountains.
As long as your country has mountains higher than 3.8 meters, it's not a problem. :D Places like Bangledesh, New Orleans, and Venice may be screwed. For the rest of us it won't be much trouble. It will happen slow enough that the natural building renewal process where old buildings are torn down and new ones built in their place, will be adjusted to build on higher ground rather than in the same spot. Populations will move inland or to more favorable coastlines. In the U.S. we already see this happening as the price of insurance and taxes has skyrocketed in Florida, forcing people to move out of state.
 
limerickman said:
The fact of the matter is the scientists reported in 2000 that global warming was happening.
At that stage the science showed that global warming was taking place.

In Paris, last month, 2,600 scientists reviewed the new data updating what was reported in 2000, and that it was correct and that the rate of global warming and the cause of global warming is carbon emissions and greenhouse gases.
The science is not in dispute.
Global warming is a fact.

The only dispute now is how do we address the issue of how to reduce greenhouse gases and carbon emissions.
Sorry to burst your bubble but, yeah, there is plenty of dispute. The only "scientific" fact I believe is that earth's climate constantly changes. Now that's a bombshell! :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_global_warming_consensus

http://muller.lbl.gov/TRessays/32-Global_Warming_Bombshell.htm

Maybe CO2 emissions are the answer to greener earth? ;)

http://www.expresswaysonline.com/expwys/greening_earth.html

In the end, you believe what you want to believe. Unfortunately, that's not science, it's religion.
 
Piotr said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but, yeah, there is plenty of dispute. The only "scientific" fact I believe is that earth's climate constantly changes. Now that's a bombshell!

In the end, you believe what you want to believe. Unfortunately, that's not science, it's religion.

So you believe that there is no global warming?
You believe that the ice caps aren't melting?
And do you disagree with the view that natural environs like the Barrier Reef, are not being destroyed through climate change?
And what is your view on the Stern Report?
 
limerickman said:
So you believe that there is no global warming?
You believe that the ice caps aren't melting?
And do you disagree with the view that natural environs like the Barrier Reef, are not being destroyed through climate change?
And what is your view on the Stern Report?
*I'm not 100% convinced (a prerequisite in science) that climate changes are man made.
*I don't give a squat about Barrier Reef any more than the tip of Mount St. Helen's, or the yet unknown species appearing or disappearing (see point above).
*I don't believe that Kyoto protocol will do squat, except wreak havoc on worlds economies as it is a purely an econo-political stunt.

+I know that the rainforests are disappearing because of poverty, not emissions.
+I know that 99% "scientific concensus" doesn't equal a scientific fact.
+I know that I'm not alone in my beliefs.
+I believe our intervention will do more harm than good, because we're really not that smart.
+I believe that millions have died of malaria because of the DDT ban (see point above).
+I believe that the world is now a better place to live than ever in human history.
+I believe that we should strive to make it an even better place to live.
+I believe Mr. Stern, just like you, me and others are entitled to their opinion:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009182
 
limerickman said:
So you believe that there is no global warming?
You believe that the ice caps aren't melting?
And do you disagree with the view that natural environs like the Barrier Reef, are not being destroyed through climate change?
And what is your view on the Stern Report?
No, it warms and cools. Its just not all because of human behavior and (Americans) and cars as Al Gore has led you to believe. Maybe you ought to look at the near 2 billion people in China and India and the recent industrialization of China as well as the 3rd world methods of cooking etc.. before you buy into Dr. Gores BS. theories on global warming . Oh BTW check the "qualifications" of his braintrust that he used for his data. That movie that you so love is a load of leftie horseshit. No wonder you liked it so much. Opps sorry moderator I meant horse poopie
 
limerickman said:
So you believe that there is no global warming? ...
You have your work cut out for you, Lim. Piotr lives in one of the few (maybe only) states in the U.S. where the population still believes Iraq had WMD and was in league with Al Quaida. If the Mormon church leaders tell them the earth is flat then the earth is flat. Period.

In March 2003 I ate lunch in Utah with a group of people. This was days before the invasion of Iraq and it was obvious it was going to happen. When conversation got around to the upcoming war and I said I did not support it, one of the people exclaimed, "Wow! You're the only person I know who doesn't support attacking Iraq." Yeah, not exactly a lot of critical thinking going on in the great state of Utah.

Making his opinion of global warming even funnier is that Utah shows the signs of global warming. Snow barely sticks on the ground in the valleys anymore except for short spans of days after a storm. Winter is barely two months long, with a few storms outside that two months and warm periods within the two months. You can cycle through most of Dec. and start back up in early Feb.
 
Billsworld said:
No, it warms and cools. Its just not all because of human behavior and (Americans) and cars as Al Gore has led you to believe. Maybe you ought to look at the near 2 billion people in China and India and the recent industrialization of China as well as the 3rd world methods of cooking etc.. before you buy into Dr. Gores BS. theories on global warming . Oh BTW check the "qualifications" of his braintrust that he used for his data. That movie that you so love is a load of leftie horseshit. No wonder you liked it so much. Opps sorry moderator I meant horse poopie
Uh-huh. It's all a conspiracy by the damned libs. Those bastards.
 
Bro Deal said:
You have your work cut out for you, Lim. Piotr lives in one of the few (maybe only) states in the U.S. where the population still believes Iraq had WMD and was in league with Al Quaida. If the Mormon church leaders tell them the earth is flat then the earth is flat. Period.

In March 2003 I ate lunch in Utah with a group of people. This was days before the invasion of Iraq and it was obvious it was going to happen. When conversation got around to the upcoming war and I said I did not support it, one of the people exclaimed, "Wow! You're the only person I know who doesn't support attacking Iraq." Yeah, not exactly a lot of critical thinking going on in the great state of Utah.

Making his opinion of global warming even funnier is that Utah shows the signs of global warming. Snow barely sticks on the ground in the valleys anymore except for short spans of days after a storm. Winter is barely two months long, with a few storms outside that two months and warm periods within the two months. You can cycle through most of Dec. and start back up in early Feb.
I'm not Mormon, among many other things you implied about me solely based on my state of residence. I suppose prejudice is considered a progressive way of thinking where you come from. Using Utah winter as an example of global warming is as cogent as using Norwegian summer as an example of global cooling. Thanks for the wonderful example of critical thinking. :rolleyes:
 
Piotr said:
Using Utah winter as an example of global warming is as cogent as using Norwegian summer as an example of global cooling.
I have no problem with being prejudiced against right wing fools who try to deny reality. Tolerating propagandists and the useful idiots taken in by them has led to enough **** ups in the last few years.

So you don't think that the fact that the winter conditions in the Rocky Mountains have noticably changed mean anything? You don't need a slide rule and a computer simulation to see that places are warming up. You can experience it yourself. Go to Alaska sometime.
 
Bro Deal said:
Tolerating propagandists and the useful idiots taken in by them has led to enough **** ups in the last few years.
You're talking about Al Gore of course?

Bro Deal said:
So you don't think that the fact that the winter conditions in the Rocky Mountains have noticably changed mean anything? You don't need a slide rule and a computer simulation to see that places are warming up. You can experience it yourself. Go to Alaska sometime.
Re-read my posts - I didn't deny the existence of global warming trends. I implied that I didn't care because I don't have the blind belief that global warming is man-made. I do know that since your infamous visit to Utah we've had some record-breaking snow falls in the Wasatch mountains (http://www.visitsaltlake.com/media/record_snowfall.html).
 
Piotr said:
Re-read my posts - I didn't deny the existence of global warming trends. I implied that I didn't care
Yeah. Who cares about things like the Great Barrier Reef? We don't need that anyway. Species going extinct. **** them, too. How many pictures of **** Cheney do you have on your walls?

Piotr said:
I do know that since your infamous visit to Utah we've had some record-breaking snow falls in the Wasatch mountains
How much stuck on the valley floor? I figure that if current trends continue, in twenty years you will be able to cycle the Wasatch Front year around, minus a few days around the odd winter storm. Do you deny the winters in the Rocky Mountains are much milder than they were twenty years ago?
 
Billsworld said:
No, it warms and cools. Its just not all because of human behavior and (Americans) and cars as Al Gore has led you to believe

Where in this thread have I mentioned Al Gore, Americans and cars?
Where did I say that I believe Al Gore?

Billsworld said:
before you buy into Dr. Gores BS. theories on global warming .

Where did I say that I agree/disagreed with Al Gore?


Billsworld said:
Oh BTW check the "qualifications" of his braintrust that he used for his data.

Again, where did I mention Al Gore in this thread?


Billsworld said:
That movie that you so love is a load of leftie horseshit. No wonder you liked it so much.

Where did I refer to "that movie" ?
I haven't seen any movie?



I referred to Paris Conference on Climate change in 2007 - which endorsed the 2000 conference on climate change and the causes of climate change.

2,500 scientists at the 2007 conference stated that greenhouse gases and carbon emissions were responsible for climate change.
 
limerickman said:
Where in this thread have I mentioned Al Gore, Americans and cars?
Where did I say that I believe Al Gore?



Where did I say that I agree/disagreed with Al Gore?




Again, where did I mention Al Gore in this thread?




Where did I refer to "that movie" ?
I haven't seen any movie?



I referred to Paris Conference on Climate change in 2007 - which endorsed the 2000 conference on climate change and the causes of climate change.

2,500 scientists at the 2007 conference stated that greenhouse gases and carbon emissions were responsible for climate change.

There are none so blind as those who wish not to see, when it comes to the indisputable fact that global warming is with us and will affect our lives for the next century, if not more, it is useless to try and convince the likes of those with heads buried in sand. The Great Barrier Reef is already under attack by farm fertilizer runoff/phosphates. During the last big rainfall that swept through the area just over two weeks ago, tons of sediment has been washed onto the reef. At present scientists are monitoring the water around the reef for all manner of foreign material, the satelite photos of the reef have shown the magnitude of area affected. Add to this the fear that global warming is also destroying a natural wonder called the GREAT BARRIER REEF, it begs the question what sort of human being would say they care not for this natural wonder. Obviously Limerickman we are dealing with a degenerate of such proportions that any sane argument is totally lost, as I said at the beginning, none so blind as those who wish not to see. Unfortunately there are a lot of these around our world, this is why there is so much trouble associated with our race/species. The USA Administration loves this kind of thinking person, it makes it right to be in IRAQ.
 
Bro Deal said:
Yeah. Who cares about things like the Great Barrier Reef? We don't need that anyway. Species going extinct. **** them, too. How many pictures of **** Cheney do you have on your walls?


How much stuck on the valley floor? I figure that if current trends continue, in twenty years you will be able to cycle the Wasatch Front year around, minus a few days around the odd winter storm. Do you deny the winters in the Rocky Mountains are much milder than they were twenty years ago?


Even though mean temperatures worldwide have become more extreme throughout the latter half of the 20th century, it is beyond belief that there are still some who deny the fact that temperatures are actually changing.

Then there are those who do accept that temperatures are changing - but do not accept that the case of these changes is the emission of carbon/greenhouse gases.
When asked to explain why termperatures have changed - they say "oh the weather changing.........".
Nor can they offer anything to explain why the climate is changing.
Surreal.
 
limerickman said:
Nor can they offer anything to explain why the climate is changing.
Surreal.
I think the key here is what action needs to be taken, and neither side has acted very rationally. The greens only solution seems to be to stop the growth of energy use, which is never going to happen because economic growth in a modern economy is intrinsicly tied to energy use. I would like to see some of these groups stand up and support nuclear power. The U.S. neocon types are willing to risk long term economic disruption to protect next quarter's corporate earnings. It's like watching Dubya insist of staying the course even as the car heads toward a cliff. Sure the next few moments might be smooth driving, but that last step is a doozy.

Even apart from global warming, some of the policies in the U.S. are madness. Cities like Phoenix are being built out completely dependent on cheap gasoline. That city is extremely spread out. It's over a 110 degrees in the summer, it is a place that could not exist without dirt cheap fuel, and its population is soaring. It's crazy. When gasoline goes to $10 a gallon, the place will be a ghost town. It seems like an abdication of what one of the roles of government should be.
 
limerickman said:
Even though mean temperatures worldwide have become more extreme throughout the latter half of the 20th century, it is beyond belief that there are still some who deny the fact that temperatures are actually changing.

Then there are those who do accept that temperatures are changing - but do not accept that the case of these changes is the emission of carbon/greenhouse gases.
When asked to explain why termperatures have changed - they say "oh the weather changing.........".
Nor can they offer anything to explain why the climate is changing.
Surreal.
Perhaps it could be increased solar activity. Studies show temperatures on Mars are also increases. I doubt a couple of Rovers are causing green house gases. Or perhaps we are in a cyclical warming period. Scientists have shown that they occur as well. Perhaps its a result of the urban heating effect. Concrete and asphalt reflect a great deal more heat which is why most cities are up to several degrees warmer than their surrounding areas. The one thing that noone who supports the idea of a global catastrophe due to global warming has suggested is how they wish to stop it. What energy source do we switch to to reduce emissions. Do we send our global economies back to the medieval times and we can all be like the third world countries. It is easy to complain about a perceived problem and hope someone else will do something but how many are willing to give up their cars, their jobs, their central heat in order to accomplish a goal which some scientists say might occur. They said we'd all be in flying cars by now too. I'm still on terra firma.
 
ndbiker said:
Perhaps it could be increased solar activity. Studies show temperatures on Mars are also increases. I doubt a couple of Rovers are causing green house gases. Or perhaps we are in a cyclical warming period. Scientists have shown that they occur as well. Perhaps its a result of the urban heating effect. Concrete and asphalt reflect a great deal more heat which is why most cities are up to several degrees warmer than their surrounding areas. The one thing that noone who supports the idea of a global catastrophe due to global warming has suggested is how they wish to stop it. What energy source do we switch to to reduce emissions. Do we send our global economies back to the medieval times and we can all be like the third world countries. It is easy to complain about a perceived problem and hope someone else will do something but how many are willing to give up their cars, their jobs, their central heat in order to accomplish a goal which some scientists say might occur. They said we'd all be in flying cars by now too. I'm still on terra firma.
Let 'em be. After all, it's their bloody soap box. Personally, I don't reply to anyone who uses labels, names, or tries to belittle others based on their own notion of unshakable truth. OTOH, it's quite entertaining to watch a one sided debate.
 

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