Gloves

[Mr. Beanz]

Uhhhh huh huh huh somebody seems to be pro tire wipe. Maybe anti tire saver but not against the glove wipe! :lol:

http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/wiping.html

Also brought up a good point that I should have and forgot to mention (green underline). Most times I can brush my tires as we roll through the glass. I always do my back when I roll through knowing it is the most likely to flat. Gina does her front as she is not coordinated to do the rear tire. I do her back then my front knowing the front is less likely to flat.

Seems Sheldon was not entirely against wiping the tires.

Again, plain and simple. This means that Sheldon IS NOT SAYING that glove wiping does not work as some have stated.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Quote by Sheldon Brown as paraphrased by Froze:
"Note the words "dubious value in practice" In other words in practice not to be relied on...."

Except...

"may be of help"

Yeah. They certainly may. Or they may not. It's hard to lose an argument when making both sides of it.

Tire savers were never popular, by any means. But, neither were the old ticking 'peg 7 star wheel' cyclometers. Noise, I suspect in both cases, might have been the culprit more so than effectivity of either device.

Ever see a well used nail puller? They are covered in black tar on the leading and sometimes the trailing edges with small stones and shards stuck to that stuff. You know...the type of small, insignificant road debris that probably would not go right through tire tread, carcass and tube in a couple revolutions of the wheel, but might work its way through in a few miles.

Have you closely inspected your tires after a few rides and found small sharp stone fragments embedded in the tread? I've pried out more than I care to remember with the point of a blunt knife blade or small screwdriver. Some of those certainly took several/many revolutions of the wheel to worm their way into the rubber. Most are stopped by the carcass of the tire. Some make it through to Mr. Inside Air and put the brakes on a good ride.

I prefer to glove off a tire to stopping and stuffing a new tube in the airless tire, so dubious practice or not I'll continue the gloving. I doubt if I use tire savers again. I prefer clean lines to my racing bikes and a quiet ride.

I'm guessing most folks have never had their house burn to the ground, but smart people keep multiple fire extinguishers around. It's not cheap to stock and maintain 3 or 4 fire extinguishers, but what the Hell? It's good insurance in my opinion and so are tire savers and gloving.

We all have choices and I don't think there's a wrong one in this case. Glove or don't. Run tire savers or don't. Your decision. Just make sure our spare tire bags or jersey pockets are prepared. We WILL all get to see Mr. Inside Air escape his confines sooner rather than later.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

And another thing...

Sheldon AND Jobst, both icons of weird cycling knowledge, have both been incorrect on any number of subjects. As far as I'm concerned, I take both the Stanford prof AND the Yankee bike wrench with a many grains of salt when it comes to the discussions of bike 'science' and lore.

 

[Froze]

Like I said it works for me. I see it help all the time. You and Sheldon are wrong.

I can't say that either I or Sheldon are always 100% right, but having used those tire savers personally back in the day when they were popular and people were using cotton and silk tubulars I found no more nor no less flats when I removed them so I left them off after about 2 years of using them and never went back. Maybe if I had kept records of flats with and without those things maybe I might have found them to be about 1% useful, or maybe not useful at all. Again I agree with Sheldon who once used them himself, they are of dubious value, (there's that darn word again, LOL!). And with modern tough flat resistant tires they become more dubious.

Here is a forum discussion discussing this very topic: http://www.bikeforums.net/long-distance-competition-ultracycling-randonneuring-endurance-cycling/610357-tire-savers.html A point brought up on that forum is that no tire or wheel is perfectly round so where you might be just touching the tire in one spot you could be missing it by 16ths of an inch in another and completely miss any embedded objects.

Here is a blog on them: https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/preventing-flat-tires-one-year-of-tire-wipers/

At the end of this discussion it boils down to this, if you want to use them use them. At this time I chose not to which seems to be the consensus of 99.9% of the riders; maybe some day I'll revisit the idea just to see, maybe on my touring bike before I start out on a cross country tour, but I haven't had a flat on my touring bike in 4 seasons of riding, and I've only had 2 flats in 3 seasons of riding on any of my other road bikes. Tires today are very well made to prevent a lot of punctures that we would have gotten even just 15 years ago not alone 40 years ago when I raced on cotton or silk tubulars.

 

[Mr. Beanz]

Here is a forum discussion discussing this very topic: http://www.bikeforums.net/long-distance-competition-ultracycling-randonneuring-endurance-cycling/610357-tire-savers.html A point brought up on that forum is that no tire or wheel is perfectly round so where you might be just touching the tire in one spot you could be missing it by 16ths of an inch in another and completely miss any embedded objects.

Well I have not endorsed the tire saver, all my comments are directed at and support glove wiping. and ain't it funny that I did a century with one of the guys involved in the discussion and he suffered a flat on the ride! :lol:

 

[Froze]

Well I have not endorsed the tire saver, all my comments are directed at and support glove wiping. and ain't it funny that I did a century with one of the guys involved in the discussion and he suffered a flat on the ride! :lol:

you didn't endorse it? you went as far as to say that both Sheldon and I are wrong. To say I'm wrong is fine with me because I'm wrong sometimes, but Sheldon? The guru of bikes? God forbid.

 

[Mr. Beanz]

you didn't endorse it? you went as far as to say that both Sheldon and I are wrong. To say I'm wrong is fine with me because I'm wrong sometimes, but Sheldon? The guru of bikes? God forbid.

I may have not stated my point clearly. I was talking about wiping the tire with gloves after you flat out said it does not work.

These were your comments to my tire wiping picture. This is what I was debating.


LOL, this is great; though it makes no sense because by the time you get over there to wipe the tire she's made at least 50 revolutions so any imbedded debris has more than made it's way into the tire.

I have never used a tire saver. The point I made about Sheldon's posted comments was to show that it seemed he was not actually saying they flat out do not work. He seemed on the fence about it as he seemed to throw in that little "may help" to cover himself on both sides.


I'm guessing this is when you dragged Sheldon into my conversation.

 

[dhk2]

I haven't done the glove-wipe since running Victoria Open Corsa CX tires years ago. The rubber was so soft and thin, any shards I ran over seemed to get picked up, eventually causing a puncture. I'd check them at home as well before each ride, more than once digging out little stone or glass chips. Believe doing both saved flats, but I still got more than I wanted.

Since switching to GP4000s, haven't had to worry about wiping, and gave up inspecting for bits since nothing seems to stick. So, in my experience, I'd say a more durable puncture-resistant tire beats wiping and picking shards.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"A completely moronic point brought up by someone with the intelligence of a common fruit fly on that forum is that no tire or wheel is perfectly round so where you might be just touching the tire in one spot you could be missing it by 16ths of an inch in another and completely miss any embedded objects."

1. I fixed that statement for you.

2. Secondly, if you had ever used tire savers for more than one minute of your cycling career you would know they are spring loaded against the tire and will track with any out-of-round condition shy of...drilling a parked school bus full of nuns and babies.

Is it Alf-Syndrome or is Alzheimers creeping up the aged members? To even mention that as a point of discussion is retarded.

No...UltraTorque crank spindles do not, under any circumstance envisioned by rational human beings, have some hallucinated '1 MM air gap'.! Neither do tire savers have a hit-skip mode of operation on any wheel in a rideable condition.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

****! There's more retarded ******** answers on that Bike Forums link than seen on this one.

That's par for the course. Most cyclists are libtard morons so it only stands to reason.

 

[Froze]

CampyBob settle down! You're way off base here and continuing to derail yourself. When I talked about the wiping the tire with your hand of another rider I said by the time you got over to her bike after she said something the rear wheel has made at least 3 or 4 dozen revolutions, most things that stick to the tire on the first revolution penetrate the tire on the second or third at the latest, thus the effort to do that is completely a waste of time. I said those things not as a slam against you but you took that way.

Secondly when I was talking about the tires and wheels not being perfectly round was in regards to using a tire saver not the hand. Spring loaded? I use to use those things and their not spring loaded, in fact your suppose to adjust them so that they are just barely touching the tire, if they were spring loaded they would be putting their own force onto the tire, they don't do that. Again not a slam against you but you took it that way.

And why would you put your moronic words in place of mine? That's right, in attempt to make me look bad, accept for one small thing, you're the one that looked bad by doing that then went on to call me names. Keep up the good work CampyBoy you're coloring a very vivid picture of yourself and all on your own.

By the way, your on my ignore list until you mature from being a juvenile.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Good..ignore this.

"Secondly when I was talking about the tires and wheels not being perfectly round was in regards to using a tire saver not the hand."

So was I.

And not that it matters to you, but which ever device or technique is being referenced, BOTH will work perfectly well with any wheel/tire that is rideable! And yes, you bringing an out-of-round wheel into the discussion was beyond stupid.



"Spring loaded?"

Yes, they are supposed to have light pressure against the tire.



"I use to use those things and their not spring loaded, in fact your suppose to adjust them so that they are just barely touching the tire, if they were spring loaded they would be putting their own force onto the tire, they don't do that. Again not a slam against you but you took it that way."

If they had no pressure on the tire they would just ride over most of the **** they are supposed to scrape off. In setting them up one bent the mount wire to apply some pressure to the tire. The polyurethane tubing keep the wiper in contact with the tire.

"1/16 runout" or none...the wiper was in CONSTANT contact with the tire. What the **** is this? Another ALF '1 MM air gap' moment?

It was the point that YOU brought up in some lame attempt to prove tire savers did not work. And now, compounding your idiotic point, you provide more information that you don't even know how a tire saver works.

Check out this pic:

The tire saver is mounted at the bottom of a fender. Where gravity would pull it away from the tire. Guess just what the Hell is holding it against the tire tread????

Go on. Guess.

Brilliant!!!

The correct answer is...SPRING PRESSURE!

And if...JUST IF...that tire runs 1/16" or 1/8" out-of-round the damned little tire saver will maintain contact with the face of the tire.

Tu comprende? Si o no?

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Here's a pair of designs showing flat steel springs. Effective designs.

Ignore that, too.

I'm guess you bought the gravity models that exerted only the force of the weight of the units. Those were less effective, but still worked just fine. And even those were in constant contact with the tires...perfectly round or not.

Again, YOU, brought the utter nonsense into this discussion. Deal with it with your ignore function. That's how you've got this far in life, I'm guessing.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

More designs using mechanical springs:

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Ignore this...your quoted 'god of cycling', Sheldon Brown states:

"A formerly popular device called a "tire saver" or "flint snatcher" used a loosely-sprung piece of wire (generally made from a bicycle spoke) to brush the tire tread constantly in hope of dislodging glass slivers and the like before they could penetrate all the way to the inner tube."


Anything else you would care to add to the discussion regarding your experience with tire savers?

The tire savers I used...and everyone else I knew that used them...were to be used IN CONTACT with the tire and under the light pressure applied by either the steel spring, the steel wires and/or the urethane tubing and mounting hardware acting as a spring. Period.

And yes, even with tire savers mounted we still gloved our tires and still do.

It's OK to be wrong, Froze. It's not OK to be an Alf.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Elegant and simple...twisted spring wire design. Similar to the hammer springs used in the Kalashnikov AK47, AKM and AK74.

Hmmm? Let's toss in some red herrings. It's what's for dinner.

Are we figuring out what the various springs are used for yet?
Are we understanding the role of pressure in cleaning off the face of a tire's tread surface yet?
Have we reached Enlightenment yet, Bodisattva?

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Back i another lifetime I actually rode with the Count of the town of Legnano, Ezzio Bressen. And yes, he rode a Lagnano in the tradional puke green and red colors of the manufacturer...complete with three miles of box pin striping that would put a Carlton to shame.

In the days when men were men and had a clue the Earth revolved around the Sun, legendary racers actully rode with their tire savers in contact...constant contact...with the tire. A shocking concept even in the days when the rear wheel flopped around loosely in the dropouts to effect a gear change!

Damn! Remember when dork discs were cool?!?!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Hmmm? No mythological 1 MM air gap! Held in position (David Bowie and Freddie Mercury shouting in unison and almost on-key) Under Pressure!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Ah! When dirt/gravel roads hosted the Tour and Giro! When tires barely held Mr. Inside Air inside! When...tire savers hummed against the file pattern tread long before discussion forums would have told this champion his devices were of 'dubious' effectiveness!

Well, cook me breakfast and call me Dubious! Hey...another dork disc! ​

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Damn! We even made them here in the good ol' U.S. of A. God bless 'Murica and God bless my tires!

Say! I'm no engineer...oh wait...I guess I AM!...but, that drawing on the packaging sure does look like the correct installation is applying spring pressure to the tire!

So, sook me breakfast and call me Helen! Or Ignore Helen. Your choice baby.