going from Campag to Shimano

[nurul]

Ok I know I am comittin a sin but here goes:
The group I am running on the Addict R4 is: record QS levers 08, centaur carbon rear 08, centaur QS front 08, ultegra SL compact chainset 08, chorus calipers 2000, shimano DA chain, veloce cassette 12/25. If I stuck a new DA 7800 groupset on,which I can get for 680 euros where I live from an LBS, how much weight would i save?? Not doing this just to save weight, but would like to run full DA for once in life seeing though it is available now for peanuts!!! Could I save as much as 300g seeing as though the Veloce cassette incl spacers etc comes in at 300g!! It would also mean I could run a 52-38 on a 12-27!!! whoopeee!!! (But what would i do with the campag stuff

 

[alfeng]

The pre-Skeleton Chorus brake calipers are porky compared to the pre-Skeleton Record calipers ... I'm not sure how much the DA calipers that you are thinking about getting weigh, but the older 6500 Ultegra calipers weighed about the same as the Chorus calipers; so, presumably the DA calipers are about an ounce lighter per caliper ...

BUT, all the other Campy components are about the same weight or less (definitely, the Campy shifters are about 100 grams lighter than the Shimano levers) ...

So, AFAIK, you will ADD weight if you go to a Shimano DA group ... but, your bank account will definitely be lighter!

So, if you do make the change, don't be surprised if your bike isn't any lighter with the DA group.

 

[nurul]

The pre-Skeleton Chorus brake calipers are porky compared to the pre-Skeleton Record calipers ... I'm not sure how much the DA calipers that you are thinking about getting weigh, but the older 6500 Ultegra calipers weighed about the same as the Chorus calipers; so, presumably the DA calipers are about an ounce lighter per caliper ...

BUT, all the other Campy components are about the same weight or less (definitely, the Campy shifters are about 100 grams lighter than the Shimano levers) ...

So, AFAIK, you will ADD weight if you go to a Shimano DA group ... but, your bank account will definitely be lighter!

So, if you do make the change, don't be surprised if your bike isn't any lighter with the DA group.

I have made a few calculations and I would be knocking off about 150g. In fact as I already run a DA 52-38 crankset and DA chain, the areas which would experience weight gain would be the cassette (-100g), the calipers (-40g), RM (-50g) but offset by a 100g increase in levers (100g). In fact I would probably put the new groupset on the cannondale as the silver wld go much better. Remember I am running chorus calipers from 2000, chorus 2000 fm, chorus RM 2000,which are all heavier but not by than much. The aim of this mini project is to get the six13 down from 7,7kg (all in incl cages and pedals) to under 7,5kg first. After that there isn't much I can do other than spend loads and I would rather spend 800 euros on a Focus 2008 bike eqiped with utegra SL rather than some ceramic c/set which makes u go 0,004mph faster. Wow, it will be great to run a 52-38 on a 12-27. Goodbye compact. Hello 52-12!!!

 

[alfeng]

I have made a few calculations and I would be knocking off about 150g. In fact as I already run a DA 52-38 crankset and DA chain, the areas which would experience weight gain would be the cassette (-100g), the calipers (-40g), RM (-50g) but offset by a 100g increase in levers (100g). In fact I would probably put the new groupset on the cannondale as the silver wld go much better. Remember I am running chorus calipers from 2000, chorus 2000 fm, chorus RM 2000,which are all heavier but not by than much. The aim of this mini project is to get the six13 down from 7,7kg (all in incl cages and pedals) to under 7,5kg first. After that there isn't much I can do other than spend loads and I would rather spend 800 euros on a Focus 2008 bike eqiped with utegra SL rather than some ceramic c/set which makes u go 0,004mph faster. Wow, it will be great to run a 52-38 on a 12-27. Goodbye compact. Hello 52-12!!!

Well, I see you have convinced yourself of your planned purchase ... nothing wrong with that ...

NB. If you want to lose .2kg & go faster, then you could-and-should think about changing your MAVIC Elite wheelset for a tubular wheelset & sew-up tyres.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

I have made a few calculations and I would be knocking off about 150g. In fact as I already run a DA 52-38 crankset and DA chain, the areas which would experience weight gain would be the cassette (-100g), the calipers (-40g), RM (-50g) but offset by a 100g increase in levers (100g). In fact I would probably put the new groupset on the cannondale as the silver wld go much better. Remember I am running chorus calipers from 2000, chorus 2000 fm, chorus RM 2000,which are all heavier but not by than much. The aim of this mini project is to get the six13 down from 7,7kg (all in incl cages and pedals) to under 7,5kg first. After that there isn't much I can do other than spend loads and I would rather spend 800 euros on a Focus 2008 bike eqiped with utegra SL rather than some ceramic c/set which makes u go 0,004mph faster. Wow, it will be great to run a 52-38 on a 12-27. Goodbye compact. Hello 52-12!!!

Except a Compact, 50/34 and a 11-25 is a higher high gear and a lower low gear than 52/38 with a 12-27

117 to 38 gear inches for the 52/38-12-27 and 122 to 36 for the compact and 11-25.
Just for info.

 

[nurul]

Except a Compact, 50/34 and a 11-25 is a higher high gear and a lower low gear than 52/38 with a 12-27

117 to 38 gear inches for the 52/38-12-27 and 122 to 36 for the compact and 11-25.
Just for info.

Peter, the dura ace 7800 is not available in a 50-34. Which is why I have had to run an Ultegra SL 50-34 on my scott. The 50-11 ios great for when you are hanging onto the middle of the peloton at 70kph approaching the foot of the Somport but I was out of shape last year so stuck with the 12-25. The six13 is my second all round bike and has served me well. I am quite happy to continue running the custom 52-38 (small ring is FSA black) on the 12-27. Within a week I should be running full shimano on my second bike at a bargain price as I already haver someone to buy the DA crankset which comes with the group. Going faster isn't the key here, it's going for the DA eperience again after so many years. I remember as a kid buying the dura ace aero grey coloured brake levers. I think they were model 7001 or something (1990) and then getting a front DA mech with my hard earned cash. I think ultimately I will see if people are able to hack the new 7900 DA levers to make them compatible with 7800 mechs. Let's wait nad see unless someone has alread tried........

 

[nurul]

Well, I see you have convinced yourself of your planned purchase ... nothing wrong with that ...

NB. If you want to lose .2kg & go faster, then you could-and-should think about changing your MAVIC Elite wheelset for a tubular wheelset & sew-up tyres.

There is now wayyyyyy in a million years you could get me to use tubs unless you had a service car carrying at least two extra tubs, on top of the ones I had in my rear pocket. I ride with a guy who uses the Campy Bora Ultras and each time he punctures it is like a death kiss to the training ride. He had no punctures for a year and then he had one every other ride. Nightmare!!! Tubs are great for short TTs or pro/am racing. Oh, the only other exeption is a friend of mine who uses his Lightweights for training. He has the priviledge of being able to call out his driver if he ever flatted. Alfeng. if I want to go faster I train. But I can't as I have been suffering from intestinal problems (IBS), thyroid shut down and other debilitating conditions. Until the docs sort me out, I ride for pleasure and stay in zones 1-3.

 

[alfeng]

There is now wayyyyyy in a million years you could get me to use tubs unless you had a service car carrying at least two extra tubs, on top of the ones I had in my rear pocket. I ride with a guy who uses the Campy Bora Ultras and each time he punctures it is like a death kiss to the training ride. He had no punctures for a year and then he had one every other ride. Nightmare!!! Tubs are great for short TTs or pro/am racing. Oh, the only other exeption is a friend of mine who uses his Lightweights for training. He has the priviledge of being able to call out his driver if he ever flatted. Alfeng. if I want to go faster I train. But I can't as I have been suffering from intestinal problems (IBS), thyroid shut down and other debilitating conditions. Until the docs sort me out, I ride for pleasure and stay in zones 1-3.

Yeah, tubulars are often high maintenance EVEN IF you don't experience road hazards ... it was just a suggestion if you were a serious weight weenie.

BTW. It sounds as though your friend doesn't carry pre-stretched spares & tries to stretch a 'virgin' tire onto the rim when you are waiting for him to 'fix' the flat. It should only take a few minutes to pull a sew-up tire from the rim & put the spare on + a few more minutes to inflate the tire if you use a hand pump -- it can be much faster than patching-or-changing the tube for a clincher. Of course, patching a sew-up tire when you get home can be very tedious.

Hope your health problems are sorted out, soon!

 

[Peter@vecchios]

Peter, the dura ace 7800 is not available in a 50-34. Which is why I have had to run an Ultegra SL 50-34 on my scott. The 50-11 ios great for when you are hanging onto the middle of the peloton at 70kph approaching the foot of the Somport but I was out of shape last year so stuck with the 12-25. The six13 is my second all round bike and has served me well. I am quite happy to continue running the custom 52-38 (small ring is FSA black) on the 12-27. Within a week I should be running full shimano on my second bike at a bargain price as I already haver someone to buy the DA crankset which comes with the group. Going faster isn't the key here, it's going for the DA eperience again after so many years. I remember as a kid buying the dura ace aero grey coloured brake levers. I think they were model 7001 or something (1990) and then getting a front DA mech with my hard earned cash. I think ultimately I will see if people are able to hack the new 7900 DA levers to make them compatible with 7800 mechs. Let's wait nad see unless someone has alread tried........

7900 compact for 2009.........

7900 STI levers are compatible with 7800 rear derailleur, NOT 7800 front derailleur and NOT(according to shimano) 7800 brake calipers.

 

[alfeng]

7900 compact for 2009.........

7900 STI levers are compatible with 7800 rear derailleur, NOT 7800 front derailleur and NOT(according to shimano) 7800 brake calipers.

I've got to wonder why Shimano would say the 7800 calipers aren't compatible with the new levers ... how different could the pull-rate be?!?

 

[nurul]

I've got to wonder why Shimano would say the 7800 calipers aren't compatible with the new levers ... how different could the pull-rate be?!?

Well that is great news. (re: 7900 levers being compatible with 7800 RM), but saying it is not compatilbe with 7800 calipers sounds like ******** to me. If they said that baking modulation or "linear response" ( I rememeber loving the buzzword acronym "SLR" as a kid) was less efficient or reduced with the 7800 calipers then that would be fine. When I mount the fresh new 7800 on my Dale I will keep my 2005 Campag Centaur non-skeletal (326g) calipers on to see how they perfrom before putting on the DA. (will get back to you guys on that in due course- next wk probably). If the centaur calipers work well then I will put up for sale the fresh brand new calipers. (SIB).

 

[Peter@vecchios]

I've got to wonder why Shimano would say the 7800 calipers aren't compatible with the new levers ... how different could the pull-rate be?!?

And vice versa, 7900 calipers and 7800 STI levers. They say because of a different pull rate and ratio but I'll see when we get our first 7900 group.

 

[Gangltirider]

Why don't you just go to a full Campagnolo Record 10 speed groupset with a Chorus cassette (wears much better than the Record cassette)? You can probably find a great deal on an '08 set now that 11 speed is out. Or you can make the jump to Record or Chorus 11 speed and just use a Chorus 11 speed cassette.

I truly don't understand this mixing and matching of parts from two different manufacturers. You will always get much better performance from a complete group from one manufacturer.

 

[nurul]

Why don't you just go to a full Campagnolo Record 10 speed groupset with a Chorus cassette (wears much better than the Record cassette)? You can probably find a great deal on an '08 set now that 11 speed is out. Or you can make the jump to Record or Chorus 11 speed and just use a Chorus 11 speed cassette.

I truly don't understand this mixing and matching of parts from two different manufacturers. You will always get much better performance from a complete group from one manufacturer.

you don't alway get better performance from one group. A lot of people use a dura ace chain as it's harder and the shifting is better. Go to full Record 08??? My bank account would be hit hard by that so if u want u can buy the stuff for me. Addict R4 are not compatible with Campag cranksts as pointed out earlier in this thread. Why do people mix and match- cos of what they choose to ride and what they have experienced as being as the best for them. In my experience DA brake levers work better with campag calipers than campag on campag. Everyone in my group on 7800 rides a campag record crankset. Why? Cos they wanted a compact 2 rs ago. There are 1000 reasons why people mix match. I truly don't understand whI truly don't understand u can't see even 1 of them."You will always get much better performance from a complete group from one manufacturer":-ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS!!!!!!!

 

[kdelong]

you don't alway get better performance from one group. A lot of people use a dura ace chain as it's harder and the shifting is better. Go to full Record 08??? My bank account would be hit hard by that so if u want u can buy the stuff for me. Addict R4 are not compatible with Campag cranksts as pointed out earlier in this thread. Why do people mix and match- cos of what they choose to ride and what they have experienced as being as the best for them. In my experience DA brake levers work better with campag calipers than campag on campag. Everyone in my group on 7800 rides a campag record crankset. Why? Cos they wanted a compact 2 rs ago. There are 1000 reasons why people mix match. I truly don't understand whI truly don't understand u can't see even 1 of them."You will always get much better performance from a complete group from one manufacturer":-ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS!!!!!!!

+1, just less antagonisitic.

 

[Gangltirider]

you don't alway get better performance from one group. A lot of people use a dura ace chain as it's harder and the shifting is better. Go to full Record 08??? My bank account would be hit hard by that so if u want u can buy the stuff for me. Addict R4 are not compatible with Campag cranksts as pointed out earlier in this thread. Why do people mix and match- cos of what they choose to ride and what they have experienced as being as the best for them. In my experience DA brake levers work better with campag calipers than campag on campag. Everyone in my group on 7800 rides a campag record crankset. Why? Cos they wanted a compact 2 rs ago. There are 1000 reasons why people mix match. I truly don't understand whI truly don't understand u can't see even 1 of them."You will always get much better performance from a complete group from one manufacturer":-ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS!!!!!!!

Hey Nurul,

No problem. Just offering a suggestion. I re-read the thread and saw nothing about the R4/Campag crankset issues. Why won't they work??

Sorry, I can't buy you a Record groupset right now as I'm working on a build for a Look 595. I do understand that costs are getting bigger and bigger for bicycle parts. I just waited a very long time and saved up to get the items I wanted.

I just see a lot of people mixing and matching components and they are always asking for fixes on how to get things to work together. I would rather not deal with that, buy one manufacturer's parts, install them and ride instead of tinkering and adjusting until they start working in an acceptable manner. Just my opinion.

I hope it works out for you. I'll check back and see how things go. I hope you get better soon! Take care.