Gold Race = shitrace

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Kenny, Apr 21, 2003.

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  1. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    How big was my deception while seeing the Amstel Gold Race. After an excellent Tour of Flanders and
    Paris-Roubaix this race had realy nothing to offer. This race has no identity. Changing the course
    every few years makes it that this worlcup race has no points of recognition. In Flanders we have
    the same final for 30 years. Hills are added in an amount of time of several years but the major
    hills are always part of the race. Same in P-R with the finish on the track of roubaix and the most
    famous cobble-zones. I don't know why they want the Gold Race to be more and more a copy of
    Liege-Bastogne-Liege. Is it to give Boogerd better chances to win the race? I wonder had will happen
    to the course if boogerd has retired and there is no Holland rider left to win it. Are they going to
    change the track again because, let's face it, there is no other rider than Boogerd capable of
    winning on this circuit. Changing the track so heavily lead to a race which is closed during 230 of
    the 250km. Boring.

    Second thought. Though this race is a Wordcuprace it isn't by far a Classic. It was only the 38th
    edition. In comparison to the real classics (Sanremo, flanders, roubaix, L-B-L, tours, lombardy and
    zurich) it doesn't even deserve the name of wordcuprace. Not only because the track is allways
    different but also because the terrible organisation. There are cars standing on the most dangerous
    places, cars parked on one half of the road. You hardly see those things in the other WCraces. An
    other point of aversion is the fact that several hills are climbed twice. Why the hell is that? It
    happens in no other major classic (it happens in HEW too but that's even less a WC race than the
    Gold Race is) It's just an artificial way to make the race harder but once again this doesn't result
    in attractive racing and it's a WCrace unworthy. It's like climbing the Poggio twice before
    finishing on the Via Roma. Last thing. Now the finish

    Tour-finish on top of a col. This is so artificial and there is no other WC races with such a stupid
    finish. Even Lombardy or L-B-L don't have a finish that is a sprint uphill.

    All these things make that the Gold Race has no identity and does not deserve the word "classic".
    It really doesn't fit in the list of WC races in comparison to the real momuments. Gent-Wevelgem or
    the Fleche Walonne should deserve the label of worldcup race more than the Gold Race. These are
    reel classics.
     
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  2. On 21 Apr 2003 02:36:35 -0700, Kenny wrote:
    >How big was my deception while seeing the Amstel Gold Race. [...]

    Thanks for parrotting Wuyts and Redant.
     
  3. Benjo Maso

    Benjo Maso Guest

    Sure, La Flèche Wallone is a real classic, without any of the flaws of the Amstel Gold Race you
    mention. Of course, the finish is op top of a col, which has to be climbed three times. The track is
    always the same, except that the start has been in Tournai, Mons, Liège, Charleroi, Verviers,
    Esneux, Spa and Huy and the finish in Liège, Marcinelle, Charleroi, Spa, Verviers, Mons and Huy.
    Zurich is also an excellent example of what a worldcup race should be. Except of course that the
    Regensberg has to be climbed not two , but five times, and that the track is constantly changing.
    Until ten years ago the start was in Zurich, then a few times in Basel, than in Zurich again. The
    finish also changed, from the Oerlikon track to the Bellerive Strasse. By the way, the new finish on
    the Cauberg was not to give Boogerd a better chance to win, but to give Armstrong a better chance to
    win, as the organizers admitted.And what´s wrong with a finish on a climb? It´s true that none of
    the other worldcup races has it, so isn´t it the best way to get an identity of its own?

    Benjo Maso
     
  4. Jeff Jones

    Jeff Jones Guest

    "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > By the way, the new finish on the Cauberg was not to give Boogerd a better chance to win, but
    > to give Armstrong a better chance to win, as the organizers admitted.And what´s wrong with a
    > finish on a climb? It´s true that none of the other worldcup races has it, so isn´t it the best
    > way to get an identity of its own?
    >
    I thought the Cauberg had great atmosphere too - better than the finish in Maastricht. I guess they
    could put cobbles on it now :)

    cheers, Jeff
     
  5. Bart

    Bart Guest

    Kenny this is patetic. I saw a great race. If it's not your cup, watch over your Museeuw World Cup
    wins collections again. When Amstel and Zurich were still fine races...

    what to think of us, Belgians, we made the final 15 kms of LBL harder AFTER Criq retired. For
    those with no pre-Lance memory: Criq used the be the "strongest" in any LBL, but because of
    his shortcomiongs as a finisher, he was always tactically smothered by the few others
    remaining at the end.
     
  6. Benjo Maso

    Benjo Maso Guest

    "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Kenny this is patetic. I saw a great race. If it's not your cup, watch over your Museeuw World Cup
    > wins collections again. When Amstel and Zurich were still fine races...
    >
    > what to think of us, Belgians, we made the final 15 kms of LBL harder
    AFTER
    > Criq retired. For those with no pre-Lance memory: Criq used the be the "strongest" in
    any
    > LBL, but because of his shortcomiongs as a finisher, he was always tactically smothered by the few
    > others remaining at the end.

    The funniest L-B-L was when Criquelion and Roche were in front, doing some kind of sur place with
    L-B-L director Emile Masson just behind them, yelling that Argentin was coming dangerously close.
    Because the crowd was yelling as well, Criq couldn´t hear what Masson was saying. It began only to
    dawn on him when Argentin, who had been unanble to follow Criq and Roche on the last climbs, was
    already overtaking them. I`ve never seen Argentin so satisfied. Nothing so sweet als a victory you
    don´t deserve.

    Benjo Maso
     
  7. "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Kenny this is patetic. I saw a great race. If it's not your cup, watch over your Museeuw World Cup
    > wins collections again. When Amstel and Zurich were still fine races...

    BTW. Zürich in its modern form is a very fine race to watch. When you bring your bike with you, you
    can see the riders about 10 times, each time at the top of a hill (or close to it). One can ride
    from Forch to the opposite side of the course (the last hill top before the decent to the lake, I
    don't know if that hill has a name). It's only about 5 km. Hundreds do it on the bike, some on
    motorcycle and few with a car. After the last round, one can find a TV and watch the finish.

    Regards, Dieter
     
  8. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 21 Apr 2003 02:36:35 -0700, Kenny wrote:
    > >How big was my deception while seeing the Amstel Gold Race. [...]
    >
    > Thanks for parrotting Wuyts and Redant.

    This has nothing to do with that. This is just how i feel about this race. I can't help it but
    that's the way i experience this race. i realy get irritated looking at it. It has nothing to do
    with a preference for real classic riders or so. I just don't feel the same atmosphere like watching
    Milan-Sanremo, Flanders or Roubaix.
     
  9. "Kenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > On 21 Apr 2003 02:36:35 -0700, Kenny wrote:
    > > >How big was my deception while seeing the Amstel Gold Race. [...]
    > >
    > > Thanks for parrotting Wuyts and Redant.
    >
    > This has nothing to do with that. This is just how i feel about this race. I can't help it but
    > that's the way i experience this race. i realy get irritated looking at it. It has nothing to do
    > with a preference for real classic riders or so. I just don't feel the same atmosphere like
    > watching Milan-Sanremo, Flanders or Roubaix.

    I think you suffer from a short memory then. Ok, this year's edition wasn't superb, but the last two
    editions were really cracking. Maybe the big riders were scared by the climbs in the final part of
    the race, maybe the fast first part of the race (that we didn't get to see) was the reason. I do
    remember quite disappointing 'big' classics as well. A Paris-Roubaix where the winner is known 40
    kms before the finish... gasp. Milan - San Remo where it's allways the Poggio, no matter what
    everyone tries. Great... NOT!

    Erik
     
  10. Dude,

    I think you could make a critique of all or at least some of the races mentioned at some point or
    other, including now. I seem to recall LBL having its share of organisational difficulties before
    the TdF took it over. Lots of good riders avoid Paris Roubaix. MSR has ended in a bunch sprint for
    years (except this year). Lombardy made a significant course change in the 80's. Zurich used to be
    in the Spring. I think it's the intrinsic value, and therefore the perceived worth of the race that
    makes it what it
    is. I'm sure the Gold Race is bigger in Holland than MSR is there. GP des Ameriques in Montreal
    was super well attended and was shown live on TV here in Canada making it the biggest race by
    far here; alas it no longer exists. The WC itself is still relatively new and in my opinion
    needs some work. I'm guessing PvP would rather win RvV and P-R than the overall WC. Even the
    World Championship road race has lost some glamour in recent years (October?). Personally, I
    think Hein has a lot to do with it. He changed things where there was little need for change.
    Now he's complaining about too many professionals, etc. Why did he change that in the first
    place? We need to put things back to where they were, with an amateur world championships, an
    amateur Olympics and maybe a World Cup more like the old Super Prestige competition. Count
    yourself lucky that you don't live here in Canada where cycling doesn't exist. (Great hockey
    coverage though).

    James P. Spooner
     
  11. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "James P Spooner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Canada where cycling doesn't exist. (Great hockey coverage though).

    Yeah, and don't we all like to watch a bunch of toothless goons swatting each other like WWF
    Gorgeous Georges but with more blood.
     
  12. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    To listen to a certain segment perhaps grease would be more to their liking.

    "Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > By the way, the new finish on the Cauberg was not to give
    Boogerd a
    > > better chance to win, but to give Armstrong a better chance to
    win, as the
    > > organizers admitted.And what´s wrong with a finish on a climb?
    It´s true
    > > that none of the other worldcup races has it, so isn´t it the best
    way to
    > > get an identity of its own?
    > >
    > I thought the Cauberg had great atmosphere too - better than the
    finish in
    > Maastricht. I guess they could put cobbles on it now :)
    >
    > cheers, Jeff
     
  13. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    When I stopped over in Switzerland for a short day I was amazed at the numbers of recreational
    bicyclists. I'm quite surprised that there aren't more Swiss in the peloton.

    "Dieter Buerssner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > Kenny this is patetic. I saw a great race. If it's not your cup, watch over your Museeuw World
    > > Cup wins collections again. When Amstel and Zurich were still fine races...
    >
    > BTW. Zürich in its modern form is a very fine race to watch. When
    you bring
    > your bike with you, you can see the riders about 10 times, each time
    at the
    > top of a hill (or close to it). One can ride from Forch to the
    opposite
    > side of the course (the last hill top before the decent to the lake,
    I
    > don't know if that hill has a name). It's only about 5 km. Hundreds
    do it
    > on the bike, some on motorcycle and few with a car. After the last
    round,
    > one can find a TV and watch the finish.
    >
    > Regards, Dieter
     
  14. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Erik van Leeuwen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Maybe the big riders were scared by the climbs in the final part of
    the
    > race, maybe the fast first part of the race (that we didn't get to
    see) was
    > the reason.

    The majority of the Peloton just got over the flu and then Van Petegem hurt everyone for two major
    races in a row. This was just a bad year for Amstel Gold but even at that it was a great finish for
    Vinokourov and well deserved also.

    It says something that Van Petegem was almost last. And Eki was dragged through in the middle
    of the pack.
     
  15. Kenny <[email protected]> wrote:

    > This has nothing to do with that. This is just how i feel about this race. I can't help it but
    > that's the way i experience this race. i realy get irritated looking at it. It has nothing to do
    > with a preference for real classic riders or so. I just don't feel the same atmosphere like
    > watching Milan-Sanremo, Flanders or Roubaix.

    Bring it, Kenny.

    RBR is at its finest when the Euro contingent starts talking smack. Especially
    Common-Market-regionalist smack. And when Benjo Maso posts anything. Now we just need Tosi to come
    up with a few well-placed insults to make it complete.

    Ben

    P.S. The parked-car complaints suggest, perhaps the next Amstel would be made even more exciting by
    racing under the centerline rule.
     
  16. Davide Tosi

    Davide Tosi Guest

    "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >For those with no pre-Lance memory: Criq used the be the "strongest" in any LBL, but because of
    >his shortcomiongs as a finisher, he was always tactically smothered by the few others remaining
    >at the end.

    In two of the four LBL he won, Argentin was clearly the "strongest". He won the other two for
    strategical and mental superiority over riders like Criq, Roche, Bauer etc...
     
  17. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    > Bring it, Kenny.
    >
    > RBR is at its finest when the Euro contingent starts talking smack. Especially
    > Common-Market-regionalist smack. And when Benjo Maso posts anything. Now we just need Tosi to come
    > up with a few well-placed insults to make it complete.
    >
    > Ben
    >
    > P.S. The parked-car complaints suggest, perhaps the next Amstel would be made even more exciting
    > by racing under the centerline rule.

    Can you simply say what your point is?

    It seems to it's forbidden to have an own opinion in rbr. Are you people saying you don't feel any
    difference of experience between watching the real classics like Sanremo, Flanders, Roubaix, LBL and
    watching the gold race?
     
  18. On 22 Apr 2003 02:12:16 -0700, Kenny wrote:
    >Are you people saying you don't feel any difference of experience between watching the real
    >classics like Sanremo, Flanders, Roubaix, LBL and watching the gold race?

    Yes. Only Paris-Roubaix with bad weather is special.
     
  19. Bart

    Bart Guest

    "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > In two of the four LBL he won, Argentin was clearly the "strongest".

    I know. The " .." was an indication of the Belgian bias in this respect.
     
  20. Bart

    Bart Guest

    "Kenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > Can you simply say what your point is?

    You need more salt, Kenny.
     
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