Good Canti's, or go linear?

[neil0502]

The shifters on my old MTB blew out last week. Replaced them, the bars, and all cables. That all seems fine.

Pulled off my cantilever brakes, f&r, greased studs, then looked the parts over. Pads have dry rot, hardware is rusted. Small parts add up quickly. I'd like to replace.

My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on the market right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids). There's also the option of using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx) and installing a direct-pull brake.

Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never had a problem setting them up, or getting an appropriate degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls just a better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel Agent' gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care which I put on?

TIA

Neil

 

[Dan Daniel]

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:42:09 GMT, neil0502
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The shifters on my old MTB blew out last week. Replaced
>them, the bars, and all cables. That all seems fine.
>
>Pulled off my cantilever brakes, f&r, greased studs, then
>looked the parts over. Pads have dry rot, hardware is
>rusted. Small parts add up quickly. I'd like to replace.
>
>My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on
>the market right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids).
>There's also the option of using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon
>Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx) and installing a
>direct-pull brake.
>
>Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's
>applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never
>had a problem setting them up, or getting an appropriate
>degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls just a
>better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel
>Agent' gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care
>which I put on?
>
>TIA
>
>Neil

One of the Avid cantis has a reputation for squealing. I
don't know if this is because of the design or because lots
of talkative people don't know how to set them up....

I have no problems with cantilever brakes. I have linear/v-
brake/direct pull on one bike and cantis on another (and
dual pivots on the road bike). Each is different, but both
work well. Unless you are having problems braking, feeling
unsafe, I wouldn't encourage you to go to direct pull.

I never feel unsafe with cantis, but I do occasionally go
overboard with the direct pull and come close to locking up
a wheel when it isn't a good thing to do. The direct pull
take a more delicate touch. A short range between just
starting to brake and full pressure.

For the cost of the travel agents, you can get brake levers
for direct pull brakes, can't you? Why clutter the bike up?
I think that the travel agents are worth looking at if you
have integrated brake/shifters, but if they are separate,
just get new levers.

 

[Mark Hickey]

neil0502 <[email protected]> wrote:

>Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's
>applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never
>had a problem setting them up, or getting an appropriate
>degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls just a
>better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel
>Agent' gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care
>which I put on?

Cantis work fine (as long as they're set up right), and I
personally prefer the "feel" to linear brakes. In fact, I
still run cantis on the back of all my personal MTBs (though
I had to switch to linear brakes on the front because forks
no longer come with cable hangers).

Linear brakes can have a slight advantage in mechanical
advantage, and are usually (not always) easier to set up.

Cantis tend to squeal less, have better modulation, and the
pads are thicker (last longer). They also allow for greater
pad to rim clearance, which can come in handy if you tweak a
wheel in the middle of a ride/race.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of
the $695 ti frame

 

[neil0502]

Thanks, Mark. Excellent points. I don't seem to have a problem setting up the cantis. I used to have roller cam brakes on my prior mtb. I figure, if you can keep those adjusted, the rest is gravy.

(Mark wrote):

Cantis work fine (as long as they're set up right), and I
personally prefer the "feel" to linear brakes. In fact, I
still run cantis on the back of all my personal MTBs (though
I had to switch to linear brakes on the front because forks
no longer come with cable hangers).

Linear brakes can have a slight advantage in mechanical
advantage, and are usually (not always) easier to set up.

Cantis tend to squeal less, have better modulation, and the
pads are thicker (last longer). They also allow for greater
pad to rim clearance, which can come in handy if you tweak a
wheel in the middle of a ride/race.

Thanks, Dan. Great points, too.

I noticed the same (squeal) issue cited almost universally regarding the XT V-brake. Hard to believe that you couldn't get around something like that with pads, proper setup, clean rims, etc., but maybe.... Had a squeal on the front Tektro canti (OEM) on my Cannondale tourer. C'Dale Wound up replacing the canti (Avids), the rim, then the whole frame before the squeal went away. Not anxious to re-visit that!

My mtb has integrated brake levers/shifters. Sounds like new, decent cantis are the simplest approach.

(...and Dan wrote):

One of the Avid cantis has a reputation for squealing. I
don't know if this is because of the design or because lots
of talkative people don't know how to set them up....

I have no problems with cantilever brakes. I have linear/v-
brake/direct pull on one bike and cantis on another (and
dual pivots on the road bike). Each is different, but both
work well. Unless you are having problems braking, feeling
unsafe, I wouldn't encourage you to go to direct pull.

I never feel unsafe with cantis, but I do occasionally go
overboard with the direct pull and come close to locking up
a wheel when it isn't a good thing to do. The direct pull
take a more delicate touch. A short range between just
starting to brake and full pressure.

For the cost of the travel agents, you can get brake levers
for direct pull brakes, can't you? Why clutter the bike up?
I think that the travel agents are worth looking at if you
have integrated brake/shifters, but if they are separate,
just get new levers.

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

neil-<< My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good
canti's on the market right now, reasonably priced (e.g.,
Avids). There's also the option of using a pulley gizmo
(Sheldon Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx) and
installing a direct-pull brake. >><BR><BR>

Save yer $ and get some nice cantis. No need for
'gizmos' and they work great. Avids, Tektros, shimano-
all really nice.

<< Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's
applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? >><BR><BR>

Nope. V brakes are longer armed, more power but well set up
cantis work just fine...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[neil0502]

Had a squeal on the front Tektro canti (OEM) on my Cannondale tourer. C'Dale Wound up replacing the canti (Avids), the rim, then the whole frame before the squeal went away.

(For those playing the home game, Peter was the one who--with a poorly worded e-mail from me--suggested that the brake bosses, or fork, on my C'dale tourer were defective, not the rims or canti's themselves, as the local guys insisted. When C'dale did a warranty swap on the frame, the front brake squeal and shudder disappeared).

Thanks much, Peter. Logical advice that starts with "Save yer $..." is tough to beat. No major need for add'l mechanical advantage. My canti's (mtb and tourer) could always lock the rims handily if I were so inclined.

(...quoth Peter):

Originally posted by Qui Si Parla Ca
neil-<< My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good
canti's on the market right now, reasonably priced (e.g.,
Avids). There's also the option of using a pulley gizmo
(Sheldon Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx) and
installing a direct-pull brake. >><BR><BR>

Save yer $ and get some nice cantis. No need for
'gizmos' and they work great. Avids, Tektros, shimano-
all really nice.

<< Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's
applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? >><BR><BR>

Nope. V brakes are longer armed, more power but well set up
cantis work just fine...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Zog The Undenia]

neil0502 wrote:

> The shifters on my old MTB blew out last week. Replaced
> them, the bars, and all cables. That all seems fine.
>
> Pulled off my cantilever brakes, f&r, greased studs, then
> looked the parts over. Pads have dry rot, hardware is
> rusted. Small parts add up quickly. I'd like to replace.
>
> My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on
> the market right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids).
> There's also the option of using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon
> Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx) and installing
> a direct-pull brake.
>
> Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's
> applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never
> had a problem setting them up, or getting an appropriate
> degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls just a
> better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel
> Agent' gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care
> which I put on?

V-brakes are lovely, although you'll have to get the right
levers. A full Deore set including cables is very cheap and
works better than anything else I've tried. The LX and
higher V-brakes have parallel push arms, which can squeal
like a pig if the pivots get sloppy. So personally I'd have
the V-brakes

 

[Chris Zacho "Th]

I don't think V-Dapters are made any more, so Sheldon's (and
my) canti conversion is no longer an option, I believe. You
could machine a piece of aluminum to accept a Travel Agent.
But it's clunky.

I recently switched out my V-Dapter canti converted uprights
for a set of Tektro mini-v's and with a travel agent they
work perfectly, even with STI road levers.

http://www.bestwebbuys.com/bikes/search?isrc=i-home-
search&q=tektro+mini-v

- -

"May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear
for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[Peter Cole]

"neil0502" <[email protected]> wrote
> and installing a direct-pull brake.
>
> Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's
> applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never
> had a problem setting them up, or getting an appropriate
> degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls just a
> better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel
> Agent' gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care
> which I put on?

I've switched a couple of bikes from canti to V, mostly
because I got new brifters with V levers and didn't want to
screw around with a mechanical advantage adjuster. I don't
think it made any difference. Both types of brakes seem to
work identically.

 

[neil0502]

Thanks much, Peter.

Unless I was missing something pretty significant about cantis, I wasn't particularly enthusiastic about adding another point of failure (Travel Agent/equivalent) into the system.

It's a dozen+ year old mtb. Just not ready to replace it. 7sp cassette, brake/shifter combinations. Would get pretty pricey to start upgrading drivetrain at this point. New brakes are cheap.

Originally posted by Peter Cole
"neil0502" <[email protected]> wrote
> and installing a direct-pull brake.
>
> Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's
> applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never
> had a problem setting them up, or getting an appropriate
> degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls just a
> better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel
> Agent' gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care
> which I put on?

I've switched a couple of bikes from canti to V, mostly
because I got new brifters with V levers and didn't want to
screw around with a mechanical advantage adjuster. I don't
think it made any difference. Both types of brakes seem to
work identically.