Good Canti's, or go linear?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by neil0502, Apr 24, 2004.

  1. neil0502

    neil0502 New Member

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    The shifters on my old MTB blew out last week. Replaced them, the bars, and all cables. That all seems fine.

    Pulled off my cantilever brakes, f&r, greased studs, then looked the parts over. Pads have dry rot, hardware is rusted. Small parts add up quickly. I'd like to replace.

    My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on the market right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids). There's also the option of using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx) and installing a direct-pull brake.

    Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never had a problem setting them up, or getting an appropriate degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls just a better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel Agent' gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care which I put on?

    TIA

    Neil
     
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  2. Dan Daniel

    Dan Daniel Guest

    On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:42:09 GMT, neil0502
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The shifters on my old MTB blew out last week. Replaced
    >them, the bars, and all cables. That all seems fine.
    >
    >Pulled off my cantilever brakes, f&r, greased studs, then
    >looked the parts over. Pads have dry rot, hardware is
    >rusted. Small parts add up quickly. I'd like to replace.
    >
    >My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on
    >the market right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids).
    >There's also the option of using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon
    >Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx) and installing a
    >direct-pull brake.
    >
    >Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's
    >applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never
    >had a problem setting them up, or getting an appropriate
    >degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls just a
    >better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel
    >Agent' gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care
    >which I put on?
    >
    >TIA
    >
    >Neil

    One of the Avid cantis has a reputation for squealing. I
    don't know if this is because of the design or because lots
    of talkative people don't know how to set them up....

    I have no problems with cantilever brakes. I have linear/v-
    brake/direct pull on one bike and cantis on another (and
    dual pivots on the road bike). Each is different, but both
    work well. Unless you are having problems braking, feeling
    unsafe, I wouldn't encourage you to go to direct pull.

    I never feel unsafe with cantis, but I do occasionally go
    overboard with the direct pull and come close to locking up
    a wheel when it isn't a good thing to do. The direct pull
    take a more delicate touch. A short range between just
    starting to brake and full pressure.

    For the cost of the travel agents, you can get brake levers
    for direct pull brakes, can't you? Why clutter the bike up?
    I think that the travel agents are worth looking at if you
    have integrated brake/shifters, but if they are separate,
    just get new levers.
     
  3. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    neil0502 <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's
    >applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never
    >had a problem setting them up, or getting an appropriate
    >degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls just a
    >better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel
    >Agent' gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care
    >which I put on?

    Cantis work fine (as long as they're set up right), and I
    personally prefer the "feel" to linear brakes. In fact, I
    still run cantis on the back of all my personal MTBs (though
    I had to switch to linear brakes on the front because forks
    no longer come with cable hangers).

    Linear brakes can have a slight advantage in mechanical
    advantage, and are usually (not always) easier to set up.

    Cantis tend to squeal less, have better modulation, and the
    pads are thicker (last longer). They also allow for greater
    pad to rim clearance, which can come in handy if you tweak a
    wheel in the middle of a ride/race.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of
    the $695 ti frame
     
  4. neil0502

    neil0502 New Member

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    Thanks, Mark. Excellent points. I don't seem to have a problem setting up the cantis. I used to have roller cam brakes on my prior mtb. I figure, if you can keep those adjusted, the rest is gravy.

    (Mark wrote):

    Thanks, Dan. Great points, too.

    I noticed the same (squeal) issue cited almost universally regarding the XT V-brake. Hard to believe that you couldn't get around something like that with pads, proper setup, clean rims, etc., but maybe.... Had a squeal on the front Tektro canti (OEM) on my Cannondale tourer. C'Dale Wound up replacing the canti (Avids), the rim, then the whole frame before the squeal went away. Not anxious to re-visit that!

    My mtb has integrated brake levers/shifters. Sounds like new, decent cantis are the simplest approach.

    (...and Dan wrote):

     
  5. neil-<< My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good
    canti's on the market right now, reasonably priced (e.g.,
    Avids). There's also the option of using a pulley gizmo
    (Sheldon Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx) and
    installing a direct-pull brake. >><BR><BR>

    Save yer $ and get some nice cantis. No need for
    'gizmos' and they work great. Avids, Tektros, shimano-
    all really nice.

    << Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's
    applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? >><BR><BR>

    Nope. V brakes are longer armed, more power but well set up
    cantis work just fine...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
    costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  6. neil0502

    neil0502 New Member

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    (For those playing the home game, Peter was the one who--with a poorly worded e-mail from me--suggested that the brake bosses, or fork, on my C'dale tourer were defective, not the rims or canti's themselves, as the local guys insisted. When C'dale did a warranty swap on the frame, the front brake squeal and shudder disappeared).

    Thanks much, Peter. Logical advice that starts with "Save yer $..." is tough to beat. No major need for add'l mechanical advantage. My canti's (mtb and tourer) could always lock the rims handily if I were so inclined.

    (...quoth Peter):

     
  7. neil0502 wrote:

    > The shifters on my old MTB blew out last week. Replaced
    > them, the bars, and all cables. That all seems fine.
    >
    > Pulled off my cantilever brakes, f&r, greased studs, then
    > looked the parts over. Pads have dry rot, hardware is
    > rusted. Small parts add up quickly. I'd like to replace.
    >
    > My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on
    > the market right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids).
    > There's also the option of using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon
    > Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx) and installing
    > a direct-pull brake.
    >
    > Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's
    > applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never
    > had a problem setting them up, or getting an appropriate
    > degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls just a
    > better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel
    > Agent' gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care
    > which I put on?

    V-brakes are lovely, although you'll have to get the right
    levers. A full Deore set including cables is very cheap and
    works better than anything else I've tried. The LX and
    higher V-brakes have parallel push arms, which can squeal
    like a pig if the pivots get sloppy. So personally I'd have
    the V-brakes :)
     
  8. I don't think V-Dapters are made any more, so Sheldon's (and
    my) canti conversion is no longer an option, I believe. You
    could machine a piece of aluminum to accept a Travel Agent.
    But it's clunky.

    I recently switched out my V-Dapter canti converted uprights
    for a set of Tektro mini-v's and with a travel agent they
    work perfectly, even with STI road levers.

    http://www.bestwebbuys.com/bikes/search?isrc=i-home-
    search&q=tektro+mini-v

    - -

    "May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear
    for the hills!"

    Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

    Chris'Z Corner http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  9. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "neil0502" <[email protected]> wrote
    > and installing a direct-pull brake.
    >
    > Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's
    > applicable only to tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never
    > had a problem setting them up, or getting an appropriate
    > degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls just a
    > better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel
    > Agent' gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care
    > which I put on?

    I've switched a couple of bikes from canti to V, mostly
    because I got new brifters with V levers and didn't want to
    screw around with a mechanical advantage adjuster. I don't
    think it made any difference. Both types of brakes seem to
    work identically.
     
  10. neil0502

    neil0502 New Member

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    Thanks much, Peter.

    Unless I was missing something pretty significant about cantis, I wasn't particularly enthusiastic about adding another point of failure (Travel Agent/equivalent) into the system.

    It's a dozen+ year old mtb. Just not ready to replace it. 7sp cassette, brake/shifter combinations. Would get pretty pricey to start upgrading drivetrain at this point. New brakes are cheap.

     
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