Good "cycling with GPS" webpage



C

Call me Bob

Guest
I'm still um'ing and ah'ing about a gps for my cycling and stumbled
across a web page which gives good basic info for potential biking
gps'ers.

Haven't seen it mentioned in here before so thought I'd share url in
case was useful to any others:

http://www.soi.city.ac.uk/~jwo/landserf/audax/

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.
 
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:15:08 +0000 (UTC), Chris Malcolm
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Check out http://gpsinformation.net/
>
>Lots of good advice and reviews.


That does look good, I hadn't found it previously so thanks. Will have
a read later.

>Probably the two biggest questions to answer are whether you want a
>mapping unit, which is more expensive, plus the downloadable detailed
>maps are expensive in themselves. A non-mapping GPS, used an accessory
>to paper maps or cheap free maps like google earth or streetmap, is
>still very useful.


My problem is that never having used a GPS before I can't be sure
exactly which features I'm going to want and then use regularly, as
opposed to what just sounds a good idea but then will be of little
long term interest.

I think I do want mapping capability.

My main intended use is for the unit to guide me around pre-planned
rides. I'd like to be able to plot a route at home, marking it up on
the PC on my MemoryMap OS maps, upload it to the GPS, and then be able
to follow the waypoints and arrows as I cycle along. I have a ****
memory for directions and need to refer to a map frequently when
riding in unfamiliar territory. That's a bit of a pain on my recumbent
(my main leisure bike) because there's no easy way of mounting a map
in front of me, so I'm forever digging about in pockets. I'm hoping a
GPS will make this easier so I can enjoy my ride that bit more.

I'd also like to keep a record of some of my rides in the form of GPS
tracks, or perhaps use other cyclists .gpx files as a basis for some
outings of my own. Lots of cyclists seem to be having fun playing with
google and the mapping facilities they're making available, I'd like
to join in.

>Finally note that for an extra cost you can add an autocailbrating
>barometric altitude sensor to both mapping and non-mapping
>models. That gives you much better accuracy of altitude, giving much
>more accurate altitude tracks, profiles of hills climbed, and so
>on. Some hill-climbing performance-measuring cyclists like that.


I wouldn't describe myself as either a hill climber or a performance
cyclist but a decent altimeter is attractive. I'd like to know about
height gained and lost on my longer rides.

The Garmin models seem a popular choice. I understand if I want
detailed mapping then I'll need to budget for some Garmin Mapsource or
Topo software as the basemap might not be great, and my Memory Map
stuff isn't compatible.

At the moment I'm leaning towards the eTrex Vista Cx. It's one of
their more expensive models, but it has mapping capability and the
barometric altimeter, as well as a colour screen which I think may be
useful for map display.

I'm taking this slowly because I'm trying to decide if I'm actually
going to get a few hundred quids worth of use and enjoyment out of the
purchase, or if I'm being seduced by gadget greed.

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.
 
On 28 Jan, 14:52, Call me Bob <[email protected]>
wrote:
> The Garmin models seem a popular choice. I understand if I want
> detailed mapping then I'll need to budget for some Garmin Mapsource or
> Topo software as the basemap might not be great, and my Memory Map
> stuff isn't compatible.
>
> At the moment I'm leaning towards the eTrex Vista Cx. It's one of
> their more expensive models, but it has mapping capability and the
> barometric altimeter, as well as a colour screen which I think may be
> useful for map display.
>
> I'm taking this slowly because I'm trying to decide if I'm actually
> going to get a few hundred quids worth of use and enjoyment out of the
> purchase, or if I'm being seduced by gadget greed.
>
> "Bob"
> --
>
> Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.


The base maps on the eTrex Legend are poor to say the least and
Mapsource doesn't add much, if any, detail. OTOH that doesn't matter
really if you intend to prepare your route in advance. What is
important is that with a mapping unit like the Legend you get a "map"
page on the display which means that you can "look ahead" the route as
you cycle rather than just following the GPS arrow.
Mapsource can also push data to Google Earth so you can plan your
route in really fine detail if you wish. Print a few GE views with
your route on them and you won't reach for a map again.

The basic Legend is monochrome and I find that it is sometimes
difficult to see the difference between features on the map page. I
guess a colour display would help with that.

Whatever you get make sure it is easy to read *while cycling*. The
Legend has a Trip Computer page which can be configured to use a very
large font and display four items, say, pointer to waypoint, distance
to waypoint, speed and estimated time to tea. I guess that when I'm
cycling this is the page I use for 95% of the time with the occasional
glance at the map page to get some overall context if I lose track of
the route in my head.

I was (very) lucky to be given my Legend as a birthday present but
having had it for nearly a year now I'd have to say that, yes, I'd
rush out to buy another if this one broke. And I know I would get a
few hundred quids worth of pleasure and enjoyment from it.
 
Call me Bob <[email protected]> writes:

> My main intended use is for the unit to guide me around pre-planned
> rides. I'd like to be able to plot a route at home, marking it up on
> the PC on my MemoryMap OS maps, upload it to the GPS, and then be able
> to follow the waypoints and arrows as I cycle along. I have a ****
> memory for directions and need to refer to a map frequently when
> riding in unfamiliar territory. That's a bit of a pain on my recumbent
> (my main leisure bike) because there's no easy way of mounting a map
> in front of me, so I'm forever digging about in pockets. I'm hoping a
> GPS will make this easier so I can enjoy my ride that bit more.


Try http://gpsplanner.net which I wrote for cycle route planning.

Jon
 
Call me Bob wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:15:08 +0000 (UTC), Chris Malcolm
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Check out http://gpsinformation.net/
>>
>>Lots of good advice and reviews.

>
> That does look good, I hadn't found it previously so thanks. Will have
> a read later.
>
>>Probably the two biggest questions to answer are whether you want a
>>mapping unit, which is more expensive, plus the downloadable detailed
>>maps are expensive in themselves. A non-mapping GPS, used an accessory
>>to paper maps or cheap free maps like google earth or streetmap, is
>>still very useful.

>
> My problem is that never having used a GPS before I can't be sure
> exactly which features I'm going to want and then use regularly, as
> opposed to what just sounds a good idea but then will be of little
> long term interest.
>
> I think I do want mapping capability.
>
> My main intended use is for the unit to guide me around pre-planned
> rides. I'd like to be able to plot a route at home, marking it up on
> the PC on my MemoryMap OS maps, upload it to the GPS, and then be able
> to follow the waypoints and arrows as I cycle along. I have a ****
> memory for directions and need to refer to a map frequently when
> riding in unfamiliar territory. That's a bit of a pain on my recumbent
> (my main leisure bike) because there's no easy way of mounting a map
> in front of me, so I'm forever digging about in pockets. I'm hoping a
> GPS will make this easier so I can enjoy my ride that bit more.
>
> I'd also like to keep a record of some of my rides in the form of GPS
> tracks, or perhaps use other cyclists .gpx files as a basis for some
> outings of my own. Lots of cyclists seem to be having fun playing with
> google and the mapping facilities they're making available, I'd like
> to join in.
>
>>Finally note that for an extra cost you can add an autocailbrating
>>barometric altitude sensor to both mapping and non-mapping
>>models. That gives you much better accuracy of altitude, giving much
>>more accurate altitude tracks, profiles of hills climbed, and so
>>on. Some hill-climbing performance-measuring cyclists like that.

>
> I wouldn't describe myself as either a hill climber or a performance
> cyclist but a decent altimeter is attractive. I'd like to know about
> height gained and lost on my longer rides.
>
> The Garmin models seem a popular choice. I understand if I want
> detailed mapping then I'll need to budget for some Garmin Mapsource or
> Topo software as the basemap might not be great, and my Memory Map
> stuff isn't compatible.


If you already have MemoryMap, why not consider using a PDA?
You can download MemoryMap to your PDA, along with your routes. You then have a
proper OS map display with your route overlayed. There's a battery issue, but
you can carry spares, and you can protect the PDA in an otterbox.

>
> At the moment I'm leaning towards the eTrex Vista Cx. It's one of
> their more expensive models, but it has mapping capability and the
> barometric altimeter, as well as a colour screen which I think may be
> useful for map display.
>
> I'm taking this slowly because I'm trying to decide if I'm actually
> going to get a few hundred quids worth of use and enjoyment out of the
> purchase, or if I'm being seduced by gadget greed.
>


There's no such thing as "gadget greed" - gadgets are essential items of
everyday life... A PDA can be used for other things besides a GPS, so it's much
easier to justify (read: self-delude) the purchase.

--
Nigel Wade
 
In article <[email protected]>, Nigel Wade wrote:
>If you already have MemoryMap, why not consider using a PDA?
>You can download MemoryMap to your PDA, along with your routes. You then have a
>proper OS map display with your route overlayed. There's a battery issue, but
>you can carry spares, and you can protect the PDA in an otterbox.


Quite a lot of PDAs have built in rechargeable batteries that can't
be swapped for spares. I have a Navman PiN 570 that I bought (heavily
reduced) for non-cycling use. I've tried it out on the bike for fun a
few times, but with both the GPS and backlight turned on the battery life
is really very short. Having it inside a flexible waterproof case rather
than an otterbox so you can tap the touch-screen to turn on the backlight
briefly works, and depending on the lighting conditions it is sometimes
readable with the light off, but it's not what I would choose if I was
looking for a GPS for cycling (or hillwalking) use.

On the other hand being able to use MemoryMap on the PDA is nice.
 
"Alan Braggins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Nigel Wade wrote:
> >If you already have MemoryMap, why not consider using a PDA?
> >You can download MemoryMap to your PDA, along with your routes. You then

have a
> >proper OS map display with your route overlayed. There's a battery issue,

but
> >you can carry spares, and you can protect the PDA in an otterbox.

>
> Quite a lot of PDAs have built in rechargeable batteries that can't
> be swapped for spares. I have a Navman PiN 570 that I bought (heavily
> reduced) for non-cycling use. I've tried it out on the bike for fun a
> few times, but with both the GPS and backlight turned on the battery life
> is really very short. Having it inside a flexible waterproof case rather
> than an otterbox so you can tap the touch-screen to turn on the backlight
> briefly works, and depending on the lighting conditions it is sometimes
> readable with the light off, but it's not what I would choose if I was
> looking for a GPS for cycling (or hillwalking) use.
>
> On the other hand being able to use MemoryMap on the PDA is nice.


If you found some way of getting it in a waterproof case and powered it
through say a motorcycle battery then it should stay on. Obviously you have
to be happy carrying a battery that could be quite heavy (or expensive if
you got lithium ion).

Dave
 
Alan Braggins wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Nigel Wade wrote:
>>If you already have MemoryMap, why not consider using a PDA?
>>You can download MemoryMap to your PDA, along with your routes. You then have

a
>>proper OS map display with your route overlayed. There's a battery issue, but
>>you can carry spares, and you can protect the PDA in an otterbox.

>
> Quite a lot of PDAs have built in rechargeable batteries that can't
> be swapped for spares.


Use one which can...

> I have a Navman PiN 570 that I bought (heavily
> reduced) for non-cycling use. I've tried it out on the bike for fun a
> few times, but with both the GPS and backlight turned on the battery life
> is really very short. Having it inside a flexible waterproof case rather
> than an otterbox so you can tap the touch-screen to turn on the backlight
> briefly works, and depending on the lighting conditions it is sometimes
> readable with the light off, but it's not what I would choose if I was
> looking for a GPS for cycling (or hillwalking) use.


Otterboxes have flexible screens, they are for use with PDAs which require use
of the touchscreen.

>
> On the other hand being able to use MemoryMap on the PDA is nice.


It certainly is. Just don't forget to take a printed map as well, I print mine
from MemoryMap onto waterproof paper. That will survive folding and storing in
the back pocket of a cycling shirt, something which the OS paper maps won't.

--
Nigel Wade
 
On Jan 28, 2:52 pm, Call me Bob <[email protected]>
wrote:
> I'd also like to keep a record of some of my rides in the form of GPS
> tracks, or perhaps use other cyclists .gpx files as a basis for some
> outings of my own. Lots of cyclists seem to be having fun playing with
> google and the mapping facilities they're making available, I'd like
> to join in.


I keep a GPX track of every ride, then upload them to
www.openstreetmap.org to help create a free map of the world (or at
least the bits I've cycled!).

In particular, I'm trying to record tracks of as much of the National
Cycle Network as I can, because Sustrans' map site is really very slow
and it'd be fun to build a better one.

Richard
 
Call me Bob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:15:08 +0000 (UTC), Chris Malcolm
> <[email protected]> wrote:


>>Check out http://gpsinformation.net/
>>
>>Lots of good advice and reviews.


> That does look good, I hadn't found it previously so thanks. Will have
> a read later.


>>Probably the two biggest questions to answer are whether you want a
>>mapping unit, which is more expensive, plus the downloadable detailed
>>maps are expensive in themselves. A non-mapping GPS, used an accessory
>>to paper maps or cheap free maps like google earth or streetmap, is
>>still very useful.


> My problem is that never having used a GPS before I can't be sure
> exactly which features I'm going to want and then use regularly, as
> opposed to what just sounds a good idea but then will be of little
> long term interest.


> I think I do want mapping capability.


> My main intended use is for the unit to guide me around pre-planned
> rides. I'd like to be able to plot a route at home, marking it up on
> the PC on my MemoryMap OS maps, upload it to the GPS, and then be able
> to follow the waypoints and arrows as I cycle along. I have a ****
> memory for directions and need to refer to a map frequently when
> riding in unfamiliar territory. That's a bit of a pain on my recumbent
> (my main leisure bike) because there's no easy way of mounting a map
> in front of me, so I'm forever digging about in pockets. I'm hoping a
> GPS will make this easier so I can enjoy my ride that bit more.


It will, but note that you don't need mapping capability for
that. Non-mappers allow you to download a route as a sequence of
waypoints, which you can then follow either with pointers to the next
waypoint, or as a display of your progress along the shape of the
route at any zoom level.

What a mapping unit gives you in addition is that you can see your
route superimposed on a map, showing roads, rivers, railways,
etc.. The level of detail you get in that map depends on how much
you've paid for, but it's never quite as much as you can get from an
OS paper map. It's more like the level of detail you get from a car
driver's road atlas map.

>>Finally note that for an extra cost you can add an autocailbrating
>>barometric altitude sensor to both mapping and non-mapping
>>models. That gives you much better accuracy of altitude, giving much
>>more accurate altitude tracks, profiles of hills climbed, and so
>>on. Some hill-climbing performance-measuring cyclists like that.


> I wouldn't describe myself as either a hill climber or a performance
> cyclist but a decent altimeter is attractive. I'd like to know about
> height gained and lost on my longer rides.


You'll get that from plain GPS altitude readings, but those at best
are 50% less accurate than GPS position readings, can be a lot worse,
and are rather noisy, i.e. jump up and down a lot due to random
errors. What the barometric altitude gives you is accuracy at least
twice as good, plus a lot less noise. But it's fiddlier to use, and
can give you really bad reading if you don't use it properly. It takes
a little bit of extra work on your part to get it to work properly,
and some people find that too much bother, and get very annoyed by the
consequent occasional misbehaviour.

> The Garmin models seem a popular choice. I understand if I want
> detailed mapping then I'll need to budget for some Garmin Mapsource or
> Topo software as the basemap might not be great, and my Memory Map
> stuff isn't compatible.


Your Memory Map stuff is incompatible in the sense of not being
downloadable as a detailed map display, but it is compatible in the
sense that you can use it to generate waypoints and routes of waypoint
lists which can be downloaded.

> At the moment I'm leaning towards the eTrex Vista Cx. It's one of
> their more expensive models, but it has mapping capability and the
> barometric altimeter, as well as a colour screen which I think may be
> useful for map display.


I think you may be able to check out what kind of detail you'll be
able to get from Garmin's web site. You might find it annoying if you
spend a lot of money on a mapping unit plus detailed downloadable
maps, and then find you have to carry paper maps anyway to get the
level of local detail you want. Car drivers often don't need that
detail, cyclists sometimes do, and hill walkers very often do.

For example, I use a lot of local cycle paths, and the required level
of detail is only available on special cycle path maps you can buy in
bike shops.

The general opinion seems to be that if you can afford it, go for as
much mapping as you can afford, because it's handy and nice to
have. But don't make the mistake the mistake of thinking, as many do,
that a non-mapping unit is somehow crippled and couldn't follow a
route or show you the shape of a track or where you are in relation to
a few nearby waypoints, and so on. Non-mapping units can do all of
that kind of thing, it's just that they do it as it were on blank
paper instead of superimposed on map detail. In effect non-mapping
units are plain paper mapping units in which the map you see consists
entirely of your own tracks, waypoints, routes, etc., no roads,
rivers, churches, etc..

A non-mapping unit is a very convenient and helpful accessory to paper
map navigation, sufficiently helpful that some people just use the
paper maps to plan their routes and decide on the waypoints. Waypoints
don't all have to be points you intend to go to, they can mark useful
visible landmarks for orientation purposes as well. So some people
with non-mapping units use their paper maps to plan their routes at
home, but when navigating the GPS alone is used and the map stays in the
backpack for emergencies.

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
 
In article <[email protected]>, Chris Malcolm wrote:
>What a mapping unit gives you in addition is that you can see your
>route superimposed on a map, showing roads, rivers, railways,
>etc.. The level of detail you get in that map depends on how much
>you've paid for, but it's never quite as much as you can get from an
>OS paper map. It's more like the level of detail you get from a car
>driver's road atlas map.


I went for a walk just after Christmas with a friend who had a new
mapping GPS that was definitely closer to 1:50000 OS map detail
than a typical road atlas.
(And as mentioned earlier in the thread you can run Memory-Map to
get OS detail on a PDA, but finding one really suitable for cycling
in terms of weight, ruggedness and battery life is going to be very
expensive if they exist at all.)
 
Call me Bob wrote:
>
> I think I do want mapping capability.
>
> My main intended use is for the unit to guide me around pre-planned
> rides. I'd like to be able to plot a route at home, marking it up on
> the PC on my MemoryMap OS maps, upload it to the GPS, and then be able
> to follow the waypoints and arrows as I cycle along.


In that case you do not need mapping capability or a colour display -
you can mark up your route as you describe, upload it and the gps will
display the route as a thick black line relative to your current
position. All you need to do is follow the line.

>
> I wouldn't describe myself as either a hill climber or a performance
> cyclist but a decent altimeter is attractive. I'd like to know about
> height gained and lost on my longer rides.
>


In that case you do not need a barometric altimeter - the gps fix is
accurate enough to give you this information.

I bought a Garmin Edge 205 for exactly the same reasons you describe and
it does the job well. Two bike mounts and USB cable included. Its main
limitation is the internal battery so if your rides are longer than ~10
hours you have a problem.