Good News/Bad News

[Leo Lichtman]

"Werehatrack" wrote: (clip) That's why the only bumper sticker on the back
of my car has an esoteric geologist's joke on it.)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If it will fit on a bumper sticker, it ought to fit in here. So, aren't you
willing to share?

 

[Werehatrack]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 05:49:00 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Werehatrack" wrote: (clip) That's why the only bumper sticker on the back
>of my car has an esoteric geologist's joke on it.)
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>If it will fit on a bumper sticker, it ought to fit in here. So, aren't you
>willing to share?

"Preserve the old-growth lithosphere. BAN SUBDUCTION!"

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[Colin Campbell]

Looked very nice sitting on that table; bet it will look even better
fully built up.

Congrats!

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

"Leo Lichtman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leo wrote: (clip) Or you can run a tap in and break it out.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> to which Werehatrack responded: (clip) Hazardous; the tap may break
> before the part comes free.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> So Leo points out: I hate broken taps. But in this instance, I am
> suggesting the tap be used only to dislodge a fairly thin remainder of the
> original bolt thread. And, of course, with care and lots of backing off.

It took me 4 hours to drill out and tap out a broken-headed M5 bolt on my
motorcycle. I couldn't believe how long it took, even with the mild-steel
bolt. There was lots of cutting oil use.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Mark Janeba]

Sorni wrote:
> Neal wrote:
>
>>"Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>>Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
>>>
>>>>...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-
>
>
>>>Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
>>>cranks!
>
>
>>Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also says
>>not to grease them.
>
>
> Those hacks don't know anything.
>
> Bill "and we're off" S.

Nazis! ******! There, stopped ya. [See Godwin]

(I dunno, I think the STI/Ergo vs bar-cons religious wars are getting
even more vigorous than the greased-vs-anti-greased taperian schism)

Mark

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
Mark Janeba <[email protected]> wrote:

> Sorni wrote:
> > Neal wrote:
> >
> >>"Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> >>>Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-
> >
> >
> >>>Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
> >>>cranks!
> >
> >
> >>Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also says
> >>not to grease them.
> >
> >
> > Those hacks don't know anything.
> >
> > Bill "and we're off" S.
>
> Nazis! ******! There, stopped ya. [See Godwin]

Ineffectual. See Quirk's exception.

Furthermore you manifest a common misconception: that a
thread is over when a comparison to ****** is made. The
law is that as a thread continues to grow the probability
that someone will draw a comparison between one
personality and ****** approaches one.

A personality drawing a comparison between another
personality and ****** is considered to have lost the
argument.

Finally, it is considered poor form to explicitly invoke
the law.

--
Michael Press

 

[Sorni]

Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> Mark Janeba <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Sorni wrote:
>>> Neal wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
>>>>> cranks!
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also
>>>> says not to grease them.
>>>
>>>
>>> Those hacks don't know anything.
>>>
>>> Bill "and we're off" S.
>>
>> Nazis! ******! There, stopped ya. [See Godwin]
>
> Ineffectual. See Quirk's exception.
>
> Furthermore you manifest a common misconception: that a
> thread is over when a comparison to ****** is made. The
> law is that as a thread continues to grow the probability
> that someone will draw a comparison between one
> personality and ****** approaches one.
>
> A personality drawing a comparison between another
> personality and ****** is considered to have lost the
> argument.
>
> Finally, it is considered poor form to explicitly invoke
> the law.

Quirk Nazi.

 

[Leo Lichtman]

"Michael Press" wrote: (clip) The law is that as a thread continues to
grow the probability that someone will draw a comparison between one
personality and ****** approaches one. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is actually a corollary of the law that says that as a thread grows
the probability that it will remain on topic approaqches zero. Reading and
posting to these threads is like playing the stock market. If you can
figure out when to get out you come out ahead.

 

[A Muzi]

Hank Wirtz wrote:
-bolt snapped in spindle-

> "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>Don't panic. Others have walked this path before you.
>>When a bolt head snaps off, a good portion of the tension on the thread is
>>released. Hold the spindle, bolt stump down, in a vise and drill from the
>>other side. Once your drill bit catches, it will spin the stump right
>>out.

Hank Wirtz wrote:
> Alas, the spindle is not hollow in the middle.


If the stump is still near the edge, cut a small depression
with a die grinder/rotary file, then set your drill to
'reverse' and give it a try from the broken side.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Johnny Sunset wrote:
> B i l l S o r n s o n wrote:
> > Neal wrote:
> > > "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> >
> > >> Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
> > >>> ...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-
> >
> > >> Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
> > >> cranks!
> >
> > > Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also says
> > > not to grease them.
> >
> > Those hacks don't know anything.
>
> To judge by most bicycle component manufacturers' websites, they really
> do not know as much as they should.
>
> "Install and properly tighten new cranks on the spindle after greasing
> the tapered square ends of the spindle." - Jobst Brandt [1]
>
> [1] <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/installing-cranks.html>.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

THAT clears it up. I admire Sheldon but neither are manufacturers and
to state, "manufacturers don't know as much as they should", and then
reference something from Jobst...based on a website, afterall. I have
suggested that Jobst spend a few minutes with one of the Campagnolo
engineers(I met one at the last Interbike)...but he won't, don't know
why.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Johnny Sunset wrote:
> B i l l S o r n s o n wrote:
> > Neal wrote:
> > > "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> >
> > >> Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
> > >>> ...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-
> >
> > >> Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
> > >> cranks!
> >
> > > Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also says
> > > not to grease them.
> >
> > Those hacks don't know anything.
>
> To judge by most bicycle component manufacturers' websites, they really
> do not know as much as they should.
>
> "Install and properly tighten new cranks on the spindle after greasing
> the tapered square ends of the spindle." - Jobst Brandt [1]
>
> [1] <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/installing-cranks.html>.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

THAT clears it up. I admire Sheldon but neither are manufacturers and
to state, "manufacturers don't know as much as they should", and then
reference something from Jobst...based on a website, afterall. I have
suggested that Jobst spend a few minutes with one of the Campagnolo
engineers(I met one at the last Interbike)...but he won't, don't know
why.

 

[Sorni]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>> B i l l S o r n s o n wrote:
>>> Neal wrote:
>>>> "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>> Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
>>>>>> ...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-
>>>
>>>>> Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
>>>>> cranks!
>>>
>>>> Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also
>>>> says not to grease them.
>>>
>>> Those hacks don't know anything.
>>
>> To judge by most bicycle component manufacturers' websites, they
>> really do not know as much as they should.
>>
>> "Install and properly tighten new cranks on the spindle after
>> greasing the tapered square ends of the spindle." - Jobst Brandt [1]
>>
>> [1] <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/installing-cranks.html>.
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
>
> THAT clears it up. I admire Sheldon but neither are manufacturers and
> to state, "manufacturers don't know as much as they should", and then
> reference something from Jobst...based on a website, afterall. I have
> suggested that Jobst spend a few minutes with one of the Campagnolo
> engineers(I met one at the last Interbike)...but he won't, don't know
> why.

Yes you do. <eg>

 

[Sorni]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>> B i l l S o r n s o n wrote:
>>> Neal wrote:
>>>> "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>> Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
>>>>>> ...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-
>>>
>>>>> Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
>>>>> cranks!
>>>
>>>> Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also
>>>> says not to grease them.
>>>
>>> Those hacks don't know anything.
>>
>> To judge by most bicycle component manufacturers' websites, they
>> really do not know as much as they should.
>>
>> "Install and properly tighten new cranks on the spindle after
>> greasing the tapered square ends of the spindle." - Jobst Brandt [1]
>>
>> [1] <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/installing-cranks.html>.
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
>
> THAT clears it up. I admire Sheldon but neither are manufacturers and
> to state, "manufacturers don't know as much as they should", and then
> reference something from Jobst...based on a website, afterall. I have
> suggested that Jobst spend a few minutes with one of the Campagnolo
> engineers(I met one at the last Interbike)...but he won't, don't know
> why.

Yes you do. <eg>

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>> Nazis! ******! There, stopped ya. [See Godwin]
>
> Ineffectual. See Quirk's exception.
>
> Furthermore you manifest a common misconception: that a
> thread is over when a comparison to ****** is made. The
> law is that as a thread continues to grow the probability
> that someone will draw a comparison between one
> personality and ****** approaches one.
>
> A personality drawing a comparison between another
> personality and ****** is considered to have lost the
> argument.
>
> Finally, it is considered poor form to explicitly invoke
> the law.
>
> --
> Michael Press

But nobody brings up the true relevance of ****** to cycling threads. Do you
recall ever seeing photos of him wearing a helmet? Then think about Michael
Dukakis. He's known as the man who lost an election because he wore a helmet
in a photo where he's driving a tank. Wear a helmet, look like a dork, lose
everything. Don't wear a helmet, become an egotistical fascist and lose
everything.

Helmets are for dorks. Fascists don't wear helmets. Everybody loses.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>> Nazis! ******! There, stopped ya. [See Godwin]
>
> Ineffectual. See Quirk's exception.
>
> Furthermore you manifest a common misconception: that a
> thread is over when a comparison to ****** is made. The
> law is that as a thread continues to grow the probability
> that someone will draw a comparison between one
> personality and ****** approaches one.
>
> A personality drawing a comparison between another
> personality and ****** is considered to have lost the
> argument.
>
> Finally, it is considered poor form to explicitly invoke
> the law.
>
> --
> Michael Press

But nobody brings up the true relevance of ****** to cycling threads. Do you
recall ever seeing photos of him wearing a helmet? Then think about Michael
Dukakis. He's known as the man who lost an election because he wore a helmet
in a photo where he's driving a tank. Wear a helmet, look like a dork, lose
everything. Don't wear a helmet, become an egotistical fascist and lose
everything.

Helmets are for dorks. Fascists don't wear helmets. Everybody loses.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

 

[Leo Lichtman]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: (clip) Everybody loses.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
hahaha. You can draw a straight line connecting ANY two points. That
doesn't mean there is really a connection. I have been wearing a helmet
during all my adult cycling years, and my head is still intact. Doesn't
that PROVE that my head does not lie on the line between those two losers?
TIC

 

[Leo Lichtman]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: (clip) Everybody loses.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
hahaha. You can draw a straight line connecting ANY two points. That
doesn't mean there is really a connection. I have been wearing a helmet
during all my adult cycling years, and my head is still intact. Doesn't
that PROVE that my head does not lie on the line between those two losers?
TIC

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Quoth Jobst Brandt:

> Campagnolo people are not engineers but rather sales
> people, the engineers being Italian and staying mainly in Italy. The
> people on the stand at the show repeat the American mantra we hear on
> this forum of no grease.
>
> Why this is believed is not explained

As a former believer in "no grease" I think I can perhaps exlain it.

The concern is that over time, after multiple cycles of
removal/re-installation of the crank, the hole may become enlarged. The
belief is that the presence of grease, allowing the crank to go farther
onto the spindle for a given amount of torque, will accelerate this
enlargement.

There may have been a bit of truth to it back in the days of
cup-and-cone bottom brackets, when cranks needed to regularly be removed
for bearing overhaul/adjustment.

Now we use cartridge bearing bottom brackets, so the cranks only come
off when a new bottom bracket unit is needed (not all that often!)

Thus the concern over deforming the crank's hole is much less well taken
than it was hithertofore.

Indeed, if you don't grease it, and leave it on until the cartridge bb
croaks, you are running a great risk of stripping out the extractor
threads when the time does come.

I believe that some of the obsessive fixation on J.I.S. vs ISO spindles
has similar roots.

Sheldon "No Longer A Problem In Practice" Brown
+----------------------------------------------+
| Any priest or shaman must be presumed |
| guilty until proved innocent. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+----------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Quoth Jobst Brandt:

> Campagnolo people are not engineers but rather sales
> people, the engineers being Italian and staying mainly in Italy. The
> people on the stand at the show repeat the American mantra we hear on
> this forum of no grease.
>
> Why this is believed is not explained

As a former believer in "no grease" I think I can perhaps exlain it.

The concern is that over time, after multiple cycles of
removal/re-installation of the crank, the hole may become enlarged. The
belief is that the presence of grease, allowing the crank to go farther
onto the spindle for a given amount of torque, will accelerate this
enlargement.

There may have been a bit of truth to it back in the days of
cup-and-cone bottom brackets, when cranks needed to regularly be removed
for bearing overhaul/adjustment.

Now we use cartridge bearing bottom brackets, so the cranks only come
off when a new bottom bracket unit is needed (not all that often!)

Thus the concern over deforming the crank's hole is much less well taken
than it was hithertofore.

Indeed, if you don't grease it, and leave it on until the cartridge bb
croaks, you are running a great risk of stripping out the extractor
threads when the time does come.

I believe that some of the obsessive fixation on J.I.S. vs ISO spindles
has similar roots.

Sheldon "No Longer A Problem In Practice" Brown
+----------------------------------------------+
| Any priest or shaman must be presumed |
| guilty until proved innocent. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+----------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Johnny Sunset]

Jobst Brandt [email protected] wrote:
> ...Similarly, no manufacturer of brakes could
> explain why bicycle disks are the only ones that are full of holes
> today. This appears to be a hold-over from the "gas bearing" myth of
> automobile drum brakes....

Since "weight weenie" cyclists often shop for components based on
catalog weights, a disc rotor with holes will have a competitive
advantage of a disc without. In addition, the holes catch the eye as a
perceived improvement over plain disc rotors, since the holes are an
added "feature". No engineering involved, just marketing.

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley