Good News/Bad News

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Hank Wirtz, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. Leo Lichtman

    Leo Lichtman Guest

    "Werehatrack" wrote: (clip) That's why the only bumper sticker on the back
    of my car has an esoteric geologist's joke on it.)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    If it will fit on a bumper sticker, it ought to fit in here. So, aren't you
    willing to share?
     


  2. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 05:49:00 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Werehatrack" wrote: (clip) That's why the only bumper sticker on the back
    >of my car has an esoteric geologist's joke on it.)
    >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >If it will fit on a bumper sticker, it ought to fit in here. So, aren't you
    >willing to share?


    "Preserve the old-growth lithosphere. BAN SUBDUCTION!"

    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  3. Looked very nice sitting on that table; bet it will look even better
    fully built up.

    Congrats!
     
  4. "Leo Lichtman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Leo wrote: (clip) Or you can run a tap in and break it out.
    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >
    > to which Werehatrack responded: (clip) Hazardous; the tap may break
    > before the part comes free.
    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > So Leo points out: I hate broken taps. But in this instance, I am
    > suggesting the tap be used only to dislodge a fairly thin remainder of the
    > original bolt thread. And, of course, with care and lots of backing off.


    It took me 4 hours to drill out and tap out a broken-headed M5 bolt on my
    motorcycle. I couldn't believe how long it took, even with the mild-steel
    bolt. There was lots of cutting oil use.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  5. Mark Janeba

    Mark Janeba Guest

    Sorni wrote:
    > Neal wrote:
    >
    >>"Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]

    >
    >
    >>>Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-

    >
    >
    >>>Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
    >>>cranks!

    >
    >
    >>Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also says
    >>not to grease them.

    >
    >
    > Those hacks don't know anything.
    >
    > Bill "and we're off" S.


    Nazis! Hitler! There, stopped ya. [See Godwin]

    (I dunno, I think the STI/Ergo vs bar-cons religious wars are getting
    even more vigorous than the greased-vs-anti-greased taperian schism)

    Mark
     
  6. In article
    <[email protected]>,
    Mark Janeba <mandPLEA[email protected]> wrote:

    > Sorni wrote:
    > > Neal wrote:
    > >
    > >>"Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >>news:[email protected]

    > >
    > >
    > >>>Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>>...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-

    > >
    > >
    > >>>Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
    > >>>cranks!

    > >
    > >
    > >>Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also says
    > >>not to grease them.

    > >
    > >
    > > Those hacks don't know anything.
    > >
    > > Bill "and we're off" S.

    >
    > Nazis! Hitler! There, stopped ya. [See Godwin]


    Ineffectual. See Quirk's exception.

    Furthermore you manifest a common misconception: that a
    thread is over when a comparison to Hitler is made. The
    law is that as a thread continues to grow the probability
    that someone will draw a comparison between one
    personality and Hitler approaches one.

    A personality drawing a comparison between another
    personality and Hitler is considered to have lost the
    argument.

    Finally, it is considered poor form to explicitly invoke
    the law.

    --
    Michael Press
     
  7. Sorni

    Sorni Guest

    Michael Press wrote:
    > In article
    > <[email protected]>,
    > Mark Janeba <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Sorni wrote:
    >>> Neal wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>> news:[email protected]
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>> Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> ...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>> Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
    >>>>> cranks!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also
    >>>> says not to grease them.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Those hacks don't know anything.
    >>>
    >>> Bill "and we're off" S.

    >>
    >> Nazis! Hitler! There, stopped ya. [See Godwin]

    >
    > Ineffectual. See Quirk's exception.
    >
    > Furthermore you manifest a common misconception: that a
    > thread is over when a comparison to Hitler is made. The
    > law is that as a thread continues to grow the probability
    > that someone will draw a comparison between one
    > personality and Hitler approaches one.
    >
    > A personality drawing a comparison between another
    > personality and Hitler is considered to have lost the
    > argument.
    >
    > Finally, it is considered poor form to explicitly invoke
    > the law.


    Quirk Nazi.
     
  8. Leo Lichtman

    Leo Lichtman Guest

    "Michael Press" wrote: (clip) The law is that as a thread continues to
    grow the probability that someone will draw a comparison between one
    personality and Hitler approaches one. (clip)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    This is actually a corollary of the law that says that as a thread grows
    the probability that it will remain on topic approaqches zero. Reading and
    posting to these threads is like playing the stock market. If you can
    figure out when to get out you come out ahead.
     
  9. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    Hank Wirtz wrote:
    -bolt snapped in spindle-

    > "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>Don't panic. Others have walked this path before you.
    >>When a bolt head snaps off, a good portion of the tension on the thread is
    >>released. Hold the spindle, bolt stump down, in a vise and drill from the
    >>other side. Once your drill bit catches, it will spin the stump right
    >>out.


    Hank Wirtz wrote:
    > Alas, the spindle is not hollow in the middle.



    If the stump is still near the edge, cut a small depression
    with a die grinder/rotary file, then set your drill to
    'reverse' and give it a try from the broken side.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  10. Johnny Sunset wrote:
    > B i l l S o r n s o n wrote:
    > > Neal wrote:
    > > > "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]

    > >
    > > >> Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
    > > >>> ...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-

    > >
    > > >> Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
    > > >> cranks!

    > >
    > > > Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also says
    > > > not to grease them.

    > >
    > > Those hacks don't know anything.

    >
    > To judge by most bicycle component manufacturers' websites, they really
    > do not know as much as they should.
    >
    > "Install and properly tighten new cranks on the spindle after greasing
    > the tapered square ends of the spindle." - Jobst Brandt [1]
    >
    > [1] <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/installing-cranks.html>.
    >
    > --
    > Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley


    THAT clears it up. I admire Sheldon but neither are manufacturers and
    to state, "manufacturers don't know as much as they should", and then
    reference something from Jobst...based on a website, afterall. I have
    suggested that Jobst spend a few minutes with one of the Campagnolo
    engineers(I met one at the last Interbike)...but he won't, don't know
    why.
     
  11. Johnny Sunset wrote:
    > B i l l S o r n s o n wrote:
    > > Neal wrote:
    > > > "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]

    > >
    > > >> Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
    > > >>> ...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-

    > >
    > > >> Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
    > > >> cranks!

    > >
    > > > Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also says
    > > > not to grease them.

    > >
    > > Those hacks don't know anything.

    >
    > To judge by most bicycle component manufacturers' websites, they really
    > do not know as much as they should.
    >
    > "Install and properly tighten new cranks on the spindle after greasing
    > the tapered square ends of the spindle." - Jobst Brandt [1]
    >
    > [1] <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/installing-cranks.html>.
    >
    > --
    > Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley


    THAT clears it up. I admire Sheldon but neither are manufacturers and
    to state, "manufacturers don't know as much as they should", and then
    reference something from Jobst...based on a website, afterall. I have
    suggested that Jobst spend a few minutes with one of the Campagnolo
    engineers(I met one at the last Interbike)...but he won't, don't know
    why.
     
  12. Sorni

    Sorni Guest

    Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    > Johnny Sunset wrote:
    >> B i l l S o r n s o n wrote:
    >>> Neal wrote:
    >>>> "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>> news:[email protected]
    >>>
    >>>>> Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
    >>>>>> ...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-
    >>>
    >>>>> Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
    >>>>> cranks!
    >>>
    >>>> Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also
    >>>> says not to grease them.
    >>>
    >>> Those hacks don't know anything.

    >>
    >> To judge by most bicycle component manufacturers' websites, they
    >> really do not know as much as they should.
    >>
    >> "Install and properly tighten new cranks on the spindle after
    >> greasing the tapered square ends of the spindle." - Jobst Brandt [1]
    >>
    >> [1] <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/installing-cranks.html>.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

    >
    > THAT clears it up. I admire Sheldon but neither are manufacturers and
    > to state, "manufacturers don't know as much as they should", and then
    > reference something from Jobst...based on a website, afterall. I have
    > suggested that Jobst spend a few minutes with one of the Campagnolo
    > engineers(I met one at the last Interbike)...but he won't, don't know
    > why.


    Yes you do. <eg>
     
  13. Sorni

    Sorni Guest

    Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    > Johnny Sunset wrote:
    >> B i l l S o r n s o n wrote:
    >>> Neal wrote:
    >>>> "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>> news:[email protected]
    >>>
    >>>>> Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
    >>>>>> ...grease onto crank bolts is a good idea BTW-
    >>>
    >>>>> Also make sure to grease the spindle tapers before mounting the
    >>>>> cranks!
    >>>
    >>>> Why? Park Tools says not to grease the tapers. Campagnolo also
    >>>> says not to grease them.
    >>>
    >>> Those hacks don't know anything.

    >>
    >> To judge by most bicycle component manufacturers' websites, they
    >> really do not know as much as they should.
    >>
    >> "Install and properly tighten new cranks on the spindle after
    >> greasing the tapered square ends of the spindle." - Jobst Brandt [1]
    >>
    >> [1] <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/installing-cranks.html>.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

    >
    > THAT clears it up. I admire Sheldon but neither are manufacturers and
    > to state, "manufacturers don't know as much as they should", and then
    > reference something from Jobst...based on a website, afterall. I have
    > suggested that Jobst spend a few minutes with one of the Campagnolo
    > engineers(I met one at the last Interbike)...but he won't, don't know
    > why.


    Yes you do. <eg>
     
  14. >> Nazis! Hitler! There, stopped ya. [See Godwin]
    >
    > Ineffectual. See Quirk's exception.
    >
    > Furthermore you manifest a common misconception: that a
    > thread is over when a comparison to Hitler is made. The
    > law is that as a thread continues to grow the probability
    > that someone will draw a comparison between one
    > personality and Hitler approaches one.
    >
    > A personality drawing a comparison between another
    > personality and Hitler is considered to have lost the
    > argument.
    >
    > Finally, it is considered poor form to explicitly invoke
    > the law.
    >
    > --
    > Michael Press


    But nobody brings up the true relevance of Hitler to cycling threads. Do you
    recall ever seeing photos of him wearing a helmet? Then think about Michael
    Dukakis. He's known as the man who lost an election because he wore a helmet
    in a photo where he's driving a tank. Wear a helmet, look like a dork, lose
    everything. Don't wear a helmet, become an egotistical fascist and lose
    everything.

    Helmets are for dorks. Fascists don't wear helmets. Everybody loses.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  15. >> Nazis! Hitler! There, stopped ya. [See Godwin]
    >
    > Ineffectual. See Quirk's exception.
    >
    > Furthermore you manifest a common misconception: that a
    > thread is over when a comparison to Hitler is made. The
    > law is that as a thread continues to grow the probability
    > that someone will draw a comparison between one
    > personality and Hitler approaches one.
    >
    > A personality drawing a comparison between another
    > personality and Hitler is considered to have lost the
    > argument.
    >
    > Finally, it is considered poor form to explicitly invoke
    > the law.
    >
    > --
    > Michael Press


    But nobody brings up the true relevance of Hitler to cycling threads. Do you
    recall ever seeing photos of him wearing a helmet? Then think about Michael
    Dukakis. He's known as the man who lost an election because he wore a helmet
    in a photo where he's driving a tank. Wear a helmet, look like a dork, lose
    everything. Don't wear a helmet, become an egotistical fascist and lose
    everything.

    Helmets are for dorks. Fascists don't wear helmets. Everybody loses.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  16. Leo Lichtman

    Leo Lichtman Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: (clip) Everybody loses.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    hahaha. You can draw a straight line connecting ANY two points. That
    doesn't mean there is really a connection. I have been wearing a helmet
    during all my adult cycling years, and my head is still intact. Doesn't
    that PROVE that my head does not lie on the line between those two losers?
    TIC
     
  17. Leo Lichtman

    Leo Lichtman Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: (clip) Everybody loses.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    hahaha. You can draw a straight line connecting ANY two points. That
    doesn't mean there is really a connection. I have been wearing a helmet
    during all my adult cycling years, and my head is still intact. Doesn't
    that PROVE that my head does not lie on the line between those two losers?
    TIC
     
  18. Quoth Jobst Brandt:

    > Campagnolo people are not engineers but rather sales
    > people, the engineers being Italian and staying mainly in Italy. The
    > people on the stand at the show repeat the American mantra we hear on
    > this forum of no grease.
    >
    > Why this is believed is not explained


    As a former believer in "no grease" I think I can perhaps exlain it.

    The concern is that over time, after multiple cycles of
    removal/re-installation of the crank, the hole may become enlarged. The
    belief is that the presence of grease, allowing the crank to go farther
    onto the spindle for a given amount of torque, will accelerate this
    enlargement.

    There may have been a bit of truth to it back in the days of
    cup-and-cone bottom brackets, when cranks needed to regularly be removed
    for bearing overhaul/adjustment.

    Now we use cartridge bearing bottom brackets, so the cranks only come
    off when a new bottom bracket unit is needed (not all that often!)

    Thus the concern over deforming the crank's hole is much less well taken
    than it was hithertofore.

    Indeed, if you don't grease it, and leave it on until the cartridge bb
    croaks, you are running a great risk of stripping out the extractor
    threads when the time does come.

    I believe that some of the obsessive fixation on J.I.S. vs ISO spindles
    has similar roots.

    Sheldon "No Longer A Problem In Practice" Brown
    +----------------------------------------------+
    | Any priest or shaman must be presumed |
    | guilty until proved innocent. |
    | --Robert A. Heinlein |
    +----------------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  19. Quoth Jobst Brandt:

    > Campagnolo people are not engineers but rather sales
    > people, the engineers being Italian and staying mainly in Italy. The
    > people on the stand at the show repeat the American mantra we hear on
    > this forum of no grease.
    >
    > Why this is believed is not explained


    As a former believer in "no grease" I think I can perhaps exlain it.

    The concern is that over time, after multiple cycles of
    removal/re-installation of the crank, the hole may become enlarged. The
    belief is that the presence of grease, allowing the crank to go farther
    onto the spindle for a given amount of torque, will accelerate this
    enlargement.

    There may have been a bit of truth to it back in the days of
    cup-and-cone bottom brackets, when cranks needed to regularly be removed
    for bearing overhaul/adjustment.

    Now we use cartridge bearing bottom brackets, so the cranks only come
    off when a new bottom bracket unit is needed (not all that often!)

    Thus the concern over deforming the crank's hole is much less well taken
    than it was hithertofore.

    Indeed, if you don't grease it, and leave it on until the cartridge bb
    croaks, you are running a great risk of stripping out the extractor
    threads when the time does come.

    I believe that some of the obsessive fixation on J.I.S. vs ISO spindles
    has similar roots.

    Sheldon "No Longer A Problem In Practice" Brown
    +----------------------------------------------+
    | Any priest or shaman must be presumed |
    | guilty until proved innocent. |
    | --Robert A. Heinlein |
    +----------------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  20. Jobst Brandt [email protected] wrote:
    > ...Similarly, no manufacturer of brakes could
    > explain why bicycle disks are the only ones that are full of holes
    > today. This appears to be a hold-over from the "gas bearing" myth of
    > automobile drum brakes....


    Since "weight weenie" cyclists often shop for components based on
    catalog weights, a disc rotor with holes will have a competitive
    advantage of a disc without. In addition, the holes catch the eye as a
    perceived improvement over plain disc rotors, since the holes are an
    added "feature". No engineering involved, just marketing.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
     
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