Good news on water bottles - no more plastic taste

[[email protected]]

After years of drinking out of my Specialized water bottles, I had
resigned myself to the plastic taste that you get within an hour. I
had initially thought the plastic taste would subside after use but
years later, it still tasted strong. I didn't really mind the taste,
so I convinced myself...

But lo, I saw some Elite bottles that were even larger (at 28oz vs 24)
on sale, so I bought em. Behold, no more plastic taste! I wish I found
out about these earlier but now I know, I ain't going back. I'm going
the Tom Boonen way - Specialized (bottles for me, bikes for him)
sucks! So for others who have been suffering polyprocrapoline taste
syndrome with their bottles, try the Elite bottles.

Josh

 

[David L. Johnson]

[email protected] wrote:
> After years of drinking out of my Specialized water bottles, I had
> resigned myself to the plastic taste that you get within an hour. I
> had initially thought the plastic taste would subside after use but
> years later, it still tasted strong. I didn't really mind the taste,
> so I convinced myself...
>
> But lo, I saw some Elite bottles that were even larger (at 28oz vs 24)
> on sale, so I bought em. Behold, no more plastic taste! I wish I found
> out about these earlier but now I know, I ain't going back. I'm going
> the Tom Boonen way - Specialized (bottles for me, bikes for him)
> sucks! So for others who have been suffering polyprocrapoline taste
> syndrome with their bottles, try the Elite bottles.

I will have to check these out. I have tried everything. I really
don't want the water to taste like it came from a garden hose. I tried
Nalgene (their bike bottles are not lexan, so are nothing special),
Camelback (hate the sucky-straw thing, and they are too big to fit the
holders. Currently I am using a Sigg -- works well for an aluminum
(lined with something else) bottle, but pricey.


--

David L. Johnson

If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach
a conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw

 

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Apr 20, 1:15 am, "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > After years of drinking out of my Specialized water bottles, I had
> > resigned myself to the plastic taste that you get within an hour. I
> > had initially thought the plastic taste would subside after use but
> > years later, it still tasted strong. I didn't really mind the taste,
> > so I convinced myself...
>
> > But lo, I saw some Elite bottles that were even larger (at 28oz vs 24)
> > on sale, so I bought em. Behold, no more plastic taste! I wish I found
> > out about these earlier but now I know, I ain't going back. I'm going
> > the Tom Boonen way - Specialized (bottles for me, bikes for him)
> > sucks! So for others who have been suffering polyprocrapoline taste
> > syndrome with their bottles, try the Elite bottles.
>
> I will have to check these out. I have tried everything. I really
> don't want the water to taste like it came from a garden hose. I tried
> Nalgene (their bike bottles are not lexan, so are nothing special),
> Camelback (hate the sucky-straw thing, and they are too big to fit the
> holders. Currently I am using a Sigg -- works well for an aluminum
> (lined with something else) bottle, but pricey.
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>
> If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach
> a conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw

Hi there.

I use Powerade bottles as my water bottles when the Powerade is gone.
The 710 ml bottles have a flip cap that exposes the valve type spout.
When the flip cap is closed over the spout the spout is protected from
road/trail dust and other nasty contaminents thrown up by the tyres. I
have never had a plastic taste from these bottles. What is really
great is you get them for about $2.00 CDN for the 710 ml size. These
are often on sale for $1.00 CDN. They fit most H2O cages.

Cheers from Peter

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 20, 1:32 am, Sir Ridesalot <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 20, 1:15 am, "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > [email protected] wrote:
> > > After years of drinking out of my Specialized water bottles, I had
> > > resigned myself to the plastic taste that you get within an hour. I
> > > had initially thought the plastic taste would subside after use but
> > > years later, it still tasted strong. I didn't really mind the taste,
> > > so I convinced myself...
>
> > > But lo, I saw some Elite bottles that were even larger (at 28oz vs 24)
> > > on sale, so I bought em. Behold, no more plastic taste! I wish I found
> > > out about these earlier but now I know, I ain't going back. I'm going
> > > the Tom Boonen way - Specialized (bottles for me, bikes for him)
> > > sucks! So for others who have been suffering polyprocrapoline taste
> > > syndrome with their bottles, try the Elite bottles.
>
> > I will have to check these out. I have tried everything. I really
> > don't want the water to taste like it came from a garden hose. I tried
> > Nalgene (their bike bottles are not lexan, so are nothing special),
> > Camelback (hate the sucky-straw thing, and they are too big to fit the
> > holders. Currently I am using a Sigg -- works well for an aluminum
> > (lined with something else) bottle, but pricey.
>
> > --
>
> > David L. Johnson
>
> > If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach
> > a conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw
>
> Hi there.
>
> I use Powerade bottles as my water bottles when the Powerade is gone.
> The 710 ml bottles have a flip cap that exposes the valve type spout.
> When the flip cap is closed over the spout the spout is protected from
> road/trail dust and other nasty contaminents thrown up by the tyres. I
> have never had a plastic taste from these bottles. What is really
> great is you get them for about $2.00 CDN for the 710 ml size. These
> are often on sale for $1.00 CDN. They fit most H2O cages.
>
> Cheers from Peter


>From my experience these thin disposables are just that, disposable
and though one can reuse them as you do (and I have), for everyday use
I'd strongly recommend just getting large Elite bottles. They will
last years and are way bigger than 710ml. I hate having to stop for
water and esp paying for it and I don't have a team car behind to hand
me a new tiny bottle every 30min. I don't know how old you are Peter,
but with age I'm learning that getting the right tool for the job,
even if more costly at first, is the best way to go.

 

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Apr 20, 10:44 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 20, 1:32 am, Sir Ridesalot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 20, 1:15 am, "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > [email protected] wrote:
> > > > After years of drinking out of my Specialized water bottles, I had
> > > > resigned myself to the plastic taste that you get within an hour. I
> > > > had initially thought the plastic taste would subside after use but
> > > > years later, it still tasted strong. I didn't really mind the taste,
> > > > so I convinced myself...
>
> > > > But lo, I saw some Elite bottles that were even larger (at 28oz vs 24)
> > > > on sale, so I bought em. Behold, no more plastic taste! I wish I found
> > > > out about these earlier but now I know, I ain't going back. I'm going
> > > > the Tom Boonen way - Specialized (bottles for me, bikes for him)
> > > > sucks! So for others who have been suffering polyprocrapoline taste
> > > > syndrome with their bottles, try the Elite bottles.
>
> > > I will have to check these out. I have tried everything. I really
> > > don't want the water to taste like it came from a garden hose. I tried
> > > Nalgene (their bike bottles are not lexan, so are nothing special),
> > > Camelback (hate the sucky-straw thing, and they are too big to fit the
> > > holders. Currently I am using a Sigg -- works well for an aluminum
> > > (lined with something else) bottle, but pricey.
>
> > > --
>
> > > David L. Johnson
>
> > > If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach
> > > a conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw
>
> > Hi there.
>
> > I use Powerade bottles as my water bottles when the Powerade is gone.
> > The 710 ml bottles have a flip cap that exposes the valve type spout.
> > When the flip cap is closed over the spout the spout is protected from
> > road/trail dust and other nasty contaminents thrown up by the tyres. I
> > have never had a plastic taste from these bottles. What is really
> > great is you get them for about $2.00 CDN for the 710 ml size. These
> > are often on sale for $1.00 CDN. They fit most H2O cages.
>
> > Cheers from Peter
> >From my experience these thin disposables are just that, disposable
>
> and though one can reuse them as you do (and I have), for everyday use
> I'd strongly recommend just getting large Elite bottles. They will
> last years and are way bigger than 710ml. I hate having to stop for
> water and esp paying for it and I don't have a team car behind to hand
> me a new tiny bottle every 30min. I don't know how old you are Peter,
> but with age I'm learning that getting the right tool for the job,
> even if more costly at first, is the best way to go.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi there.

It was only a suggestion.

I agree about the right tool for the job. I mentioned the Powerade
bottles I use because I find them very handy. They are also clear
which allows me to see at a glance how much water remains in one.

I am 55 and can carry up to 5 of these bottles at once on my bicycle
when I go for long distance rides. One is on the handle bar mount
between the aero bars, one is on the downtube, one is on the seat tube
and two are on holder behind the saddle. That is 3550 ml total or just
over 3.5 liters which is plenty or most rides here in South Central
Ontario Canada. If I do need more water I can always stop at a service
station and refill. Carrying more than one bottle allows me to have
plain water in one or more and a sports drink in others.

Cheers from Peter

 

[Tom Nakashima]

"Sir Ridesalot" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> I agree about the right tool for the job. I mentioned the Powerade
> bottles I use because I find them very handy. They are also clear
> which allows me to see at a glance how much water remains in one.
>
> I am 55 and can carry up to 5 of these bottles at once on my bicycle
> when I go for long distance rides. One is on the handle bar mount
> between the aero bars, one is on the downtube, one is on the seat tube
> and two are on holder behind the saddle. That is 3550 ml total or just
> over 3.5 liters which is plenty or most rides here in South Central
> Ontario Canada. If I do need more water I can always stop at a service
> station and refill. Carrying more than one bottle allows me to have
> plain water in one or more and a sports drink in others.
>
> Cheers from Peter


Geezers, you're carrying almost a gallon of fluids on your bike.
Makes me wonder how many miles between a Wendy's & McDonalds
are there in South Central Ontario Canada?
-tom

 

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Apr 20, 11:24 am, "Tom Nakashima" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Sir Ridesalot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > I agree about the right tool for the job. I mentioned the Powerade
> > bottles I use because I find them very handy. They are also clear
> > which allows me to see at a glance how much water remains in one.
>
> > I am 55 and can carry up to 5 of these bottles at once on my bicycle
> > when I go for long distance rides. One is on the handle bar mount
> > between the aero bars, one is on the downtube, one is on the seat tube
> > and two are on holder behind the saddle. That is 3550 ml total or just
> > over 3.5 liters which is plenty for most rides here in South Central
> > Ontario Canada. If I do need more water I can always stop at a service
> > station and refill. Carrying more than one bottle allows me to have
> > plain water in one or more and a sports drink in others.
>
> > Cheers from Peter
>
> Geezers, you're carrying almost a gallon of fluids on your bike.
> Makes me wonder how many miles between a Wendy's & McDonalds
> are there in South Central Ontario Canada?
> -tom

Hi Tom.

On some of the backroads I frequent it can be quite a distance. I do
not always carry that much water. I do carry them all on the really
hot days when I am riding long distance. Better to have too much than
not enough then.

Cheers from Peter

 

[Donald Gillies]

Sir Ridesalot <[email protected]> writes:

>On Apr 20, 11:24 am, "Tom Nakashima" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > I am 55 and can carry up to 5 of these bottles at once on my bicycle
>> > when I go for long distance rides.

You are a perfect candidate for a Camelback drink system, or the
generic equivalent.

- Don Gillies
San diego, CA

 

[Tom Nakashima]

"Sir Ridesalot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Apr 20, 11:24 am, "Tom Nakashima" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Sir Ridesalot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > I agree about the right tool for the job. I mentioned the Powerade
>> > bottles I use because I find them very handy. They are also clear
>> > which allows me to see at a glance how much water remains in one.
>>
>> > I am 55 and can carry up to 5 of these bottles at once on my bicycle
>> > when I go for long distance rides. One is on the handle bar mount
>> > between the aero bars, one is on the downtube, one is on the seat tube
>> > and two are on holder behind the saddle. That is 3550 ml total or just
>> > over 3.5 liters which is plenty for most rides here in South Central
>> > Ontario Canada. If I do need more water I can always stop at a service
>> > station and refill. Carrying more than one bottle allows me to have
>> > plain water in one or more and a sports drink in others.
>>
>> > Cheers from Peter
>>
>> Geezers, you're carrying almost a gallon of fluids on your bike.
>> Makes me wonder how many miles between a Wendy's & McDonalds
>> are there in South Central Ontario Canada?
>> -tom
>
> Hi Tom.
>
> On some of the backroads I frequent it can be quite a distance. I do
> not always carry that much water. I do carry them all on the really
> hot days when I am riding long distance. Better to have too much than
> not enough then.
> Cheers from Peter
>

Well I looked at this in perspective Peter,
At least you can say you can get 100 miles to the gallon.
-tom

 

[SMS]

[email protected] wrote:
> After years of drinking out of my Specialized water bottles, I had
> resigned myself to the plastic taste that you get within an hour. I
> had initially thought the plastic taste would subside after use but
> years later, it still tasted strong. I didn't really mind the taste,
> so I convinced myself...
>
> But lo, I saw some Elite bottles that were even larger (at 28oz vs 24)
> on sale, so I bought em. Behold, no more plastic taste! I wish I found
> out about these earlier but now I know, I ain't going back. I'm going
> the Tom Boonen way - Specialized (bottles for me, bikes for him)
> sucks! So for others who have been suffering polyprocrapoline taste
> syndrome with their bottles, try the Elite bottles.

Performance has the 600 ml version for $4.49. The 800 ml version is hard
to find in the U.S. Where did you buy the large one? I saw it online in
one place, for $15.

It's called "Buricci Higene"

 

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Apr 20, 1:25 pm, [email protected] (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> Sir Ridesalot <[email protected]> writes:
> >On Apr 20, 11:24 am, "Tom Nakashima" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> > I am 55 and can carry up to 5 of these bottles at once on my bicycle
> >> > when I go for long distance rides.
>
> You are a perfect candidate for a Camelback drink system, or the
> generic equivalent.
>
> - Don Gillies
> San diego, CA

Hi there.

To me there is an advantage of multiple bottles over a hydration pack.
It is that you can carry both plain water and flavoured sports drinks.
This came in very handy once when I came across a cyclist who had
fallen on some loose sand. We used the plain water to wash out his
road rash which made follow-up treatment much easier. I have seen more
t han a few cyclists who only carry flavoured water or sports drinks.

I did try a hydration system but did not like it it very much.

Cheers from Peter

 

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Apr 20, 1:32 pm, "Tom Nakashima" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Sir Ridesalot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 20, 11:24 am, "Tom Nakashima" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> "Sir Ridesalot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > I agree about the right tool for the job. I mentioned the Powerade
> >> > bottles I use because I find them very handy. They are also clear
> >> > which allows me to see at a glance how much water remains in one.
>
> >> > I am 55 and can carry up to 5 of these bottles at once on my bicycle
> >> > when I go for long distance rides. One is on the handle bar mount
> >> > between the aero bars, one is on the downtube, one is on the seat tube
> >> > and two are on holder behind the saddle. That is 3550 ml total or just
> >> > over 3.5 liters which is plenty for most rides here in South Central
> >> > Ontario Canada. If I do need more water I can always stop at a service
> >> > station and refill. Carrying more than one bottle allows me to have
> >> > plain water in one or more and a sports drink in others.
>
> >> > Cheers from Peter
>
> >> Geezers, you're carrying almost a gallon of fluids on your bike.
> >> Makes me wonder how many miles between a Wendy's & McDonalds
> >> are there in South Central Ontario Canada?
> >> -tom
>
> > Hi Tom.
>
> > On some of the backroads I frequent it can be quite a distance. I do
> > not always carry that much water. I do carry them all on the really
> > hot days when I am riding long distance. Better to have too much than
> > not enough then.
> > Cheers from Peter
>
> Well I looked at this in perspective Peter,
> At least you can say you can get 100 miles to the gallon.
> -tom- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi there Tom.

That's what I tell a lot of drivers. LOL

Many times I go out for a moderate ride and instead spend the whole
day exploring often riding over 100 miles. Once I hit a stretch where
there were no houses or places to get water. The water I had had in
the 3 botles was gone. It was in the 90's. After that I added the two
bottles behind the seat.

I have occassionaly handed off a bottle to a fellow cyclist who needed
more water too.

Cheers from Peter

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 20, 1:58 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > After years of drinking out of my Specialized water bottles, I had
> > resigned myself to the plastic taste that you get within an hour. I
> > had initially thought the plastic taste would subside after use but
> > years later, it still tasted strong. I didn't really mind the taste,
> > so I convinced myself...
>
> > But lo, I saw some Elite bottles that were even larger (at 28oz vs 24)
> > on sale, so I bought em. Behold, no more plastic taste! I wish I found
> > out about these earlier but now I know, I ain't going back. I'm going
> > the Tom Boonen way - Specialized (bottles for me, bikes for him)
> > sucks! So for others who have been suffering polyprocrapoline taste
> > syndrome with their bottles, try the Elite bottles.
>
> Performance has the 600 ml version for $4.49. The 800 ml version is hard
> to find in the U.S. Where did you buy the large one? I saw it online in
> one place, for $15.
>
> It's called "Buricci Higene"

looked at Qbike.com and it leads to Nashbar carrying the large bottle
for 5$ and they even have a 1L bottle at 8$. Great prices, but better
order somethin' else to spread the shipping cost.

 

[Kristian M Zoerhoff]

On 2007-04-20, Sir Ridesalot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> To me there is an advantage of multiple bottles over a hydration pack.
> It is that you can carry both plain water and flavoured sports drinks.
> This came in very handy once when I came across a cyclist who had
> fallen on some loose sand. We used the plain water to wash out his
> road rash which made follow-up treatment much easier. I have seen more
> t han a few cyclists who only carry flavoured water or sports drinks.

I tend to use both in mid-summer. I have a pair of bottle cages (one on
the down tube, one on the seat tube), so I'll put sports drink in one,
water in the other, and water with a small amount of sugar and salt into
the Camelbak. I usually drink from the Camelbak first, as once it's gone
I can take it off and shove it in my trunk bag, so I don't too terribly
sweaty. I save the plain water for dead last, partially so I can my
electrolytes, and partially in case of raod rash or other cleaning needs.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email protected]
(_)/ (_)

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On 20 Apr 2007 11:48:39 -0700, Sir Ridesalot
<[email protected]> wrote:

>This came in very handy once when I came across a cyclist who had
>fallen on some loose sand.

The people I ride with crash rarely enough that we needn't consider
post-accident clean-up in deciding what to drink. YMMV.

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

 

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Apr 20, 6:09 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 20 Apr 2007 11:48:39 -0700, Sir Ridesalot
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >This came in very handy once when I came across a cyclist who had
> >fallen on some loose sand.
>
> The people I ride with crash rarely enough that we needn't consider
> post-accident clean-up in deciding what to drink. YMMV.
>
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************

Hi there.

Yes, My Mileage does Vary. :<)

The people I ride with seldom crash either. However I often ride long
distances by myself.

Notice I said I *CAME* across a cyclist who had crashed. VBG He was
going in a different direction than myself. I felt obligated to help
him out as I would any one.

Accidents do happen and they do unexpectadly which is why they are
called accidents. (G) I also carry a fairly comprehensive first aid
kit 'just in case'. I see it the same way many see carrying a repair
kit or tools - you hope you don't need them but if you do they are
there. Prompt cleaning of road rash can prevent complications or much
pain from having to wait to clean it out later.

Many times part of my long ride on the weekend is on a section of rail-
trail. It sometimes astounds me how unprepared some cyclists are for
something even as simple as a puncture. I have patched tubes and even
give up one of my spare tubes at times to a cyclist who has punctured
and was facing a multi-kilometer walk because they could not repair
their tyre. I have often stopped and done a minor repair on a bike or
cyclist. And I have often given a bottle of water to a cyclist who has
ridden too far with out any.

Like the boy scouts I like to be prepared.

Cheers from Peter

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On 20 Apr 2007 15:29:47 -0700, Sir Ridesalot
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Notice I said I *CAME* across a cyclist who had crashed. VBG He was
>going in a different direction than myself. I felt obligated to help
>him out as I would any one.

>Accidents do happen and they do unexpectadly which is why they are
>called accidents. (G) I also carry a fairly comprehensive first aid
>kit 'just in case'.

I dislike road cycling made out to be some sort of adventure in which
is it reasonable to prepare for injuries.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On 20 Apr 2007 15:29:47 -0700, Sir Ridesalot
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The people I ride with seldom crash either. However I often ride long
>distances by myself.
>
>Notice I said I *CAME* across a cyclist who had crashed. VBG He was
>going in a different direction than myself. I felt obligated to help
>him out as I would any one.

You're choosing what to drink so as to be better prepared to help
strangers who crash.

That strikes me as bizarre. Charitable, but bizarre.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 20, 9:44 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 20, 1:32 am, Sir Ridesalot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 20, 1:15 am, "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > [email protected] wrote:
> > > > After years of drinking out of my Specialized water bottles, I had
> > > > resigned myself to the plastic taste that you get within an hour. I
> > > > had initially thought the plastic taste would subside after use but
> > > > years later, it still tasted strong. I didn't really mind the taste,
> > > > so I convinced myself...
>
> > > > But lo, I saw some Elite bottles that were even larger (at 28oz vs 24)
> > > > on sale, so I bought em. Behold, no more plastic taste! I wish I found
> > > > out about these earlier but now I know, I ain't going back. I'm going
> > > > the Tom Boonen way - Specialized (bottles for me, bikes for him)
> > > > sucks! So for others who have been suffering polyprocrapoline taste
> > > > syndrome with their bottles, try the Elite bottles.
>
> > > I will have to check these out. I have tried everything. I really
> > > don't want the water to taste like it came from a garden hose. I tried
> > > Nalgene (their bike bottles are not lexan, so are nothing special),
> > > Camelback (hate the sucky-straw thing, and they are too big to fit the
> > > holders. Currently I am using a Sigg -- works well for an aluminum
> > > (lined with something else) bottle, but pricey.
>
> > > --
>
> > > David L. Johnson
>
> > > If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach
> > > a conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw
>
> > Hi there.
>
> > I use Powerade bottles as my water bottles when the Powerade is gone.
> > The 710 ml bottles have a flip cap that exposes the valve type spout.
> > When the flip cap is closed over the spout the spout is protected from
> > road/trail dust and other nasty contaminents thrown up by the tyres. I
> > have never had a plastic taste from these bottles. What is really
> > great is you get them for about $2.00 CDN for the 710 ml size. These
> > are often on sale for $1.00 CDN. They fit most H2O cages.
>
> > Cheers from Peter
> >From my experience these thin disposables are just that, disposable
>
> and though one can reuse them as you do (and I have), for everyday use
> I'd strongly recommend just getting large Elite bottles. They will
> last years and are way bigger than 710ml. I hate having to stop for
> water and esp paying for it and I don't have a team car behind to hand
> me a new tiny bottle every 30min. I don't know how old you are Peter,
> but with age I'm learning that getting the right tool for the job,
> even if more costly at first, is the best way to go.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

IMHO, you are absolutely right...'right tool for the job'. The other
side of the argument is, spend as little as possible, and by God I'll
jerry-rig something and MAKE it work. Regardless of how much time it
takes. I have worked with tools all my working life, and having the
right tool for the job is a pleasure. Trying to make do with the
cheapest possible solution is never-ending aggravation - J.

 

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better news: gatroade made water bottles obsolete.