Good sporty hybrid for women

[Mark Roberts]

Hello,

I'm trying to help my girlfriend find a bike so we can ride togther. I
ride a fair bit and have three bikes: an alu commuter hybrid, steel
tourer and titanium/carbon road bike.

I'm thinking a hybrid will be the best option for her, as we're
probably not going to cycle hundreds of miles with panniers or go for
maximum speed. But having said that, we will be cycling for 3-4hours
at a time and pretty hard if I get my way

I'm confused by the "Women's" frames - The major difference seems to
be the "step-through" design... for dresses? I'd really appreciate
hearing from anyone that can comment on the differences, and maybe
recommend a bike... I'm looking at the Dawes Sonoran - is this any
good?

Also been looking at Trek, Ridgeback and Scott: They all don't have
mudguards, guess I could add some later maybe?

Oh, well, sorry for this rather vague posting. Maybe someone will have
some ideas

bye for now,
Mark.

 

[Rich]

You need a tandem, or either you or your girlfriend will NOT be happy,
and the bike will soon go unused.

With a tandem, you can actually ride together, as opposed to riding in
close proximity with you either wishing to go faster or her thinking
your a jerk for leaving her behind.

A tandem allows you to both ride to your best, or desired, ability. And
you can carry on a conversation while you ride. My wife used to rarely
go riding with me, but now it's her that suggests we go riding all the time.

Mark Roberts wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to help my girlfriend find a bike so we can ride togther. I
> ride a fair bit and have three bikes: an alu commuter hybrid, steel
> tourer and titanium/carbon road bike.
>
> I'm thinking a hybrid will be the best option for her, as we're
> probably not going to cycle hundreds of miles with panniers or go for
> maximum speed. But having said that, we will be cycling for 3-4hours
> at a time and pretty hard if I get my way
>
> I'm confused by the "Women's" frames - The major difference seems to
> be the "step-through" design... for dresses? I'd really appreciate
> hearing from anyone that can comment on the differences, and maybe
> recommend a bike... I'm looking at the Dawes Sonoran - is this any
> good?
>
> Also been looking at Trek, Ridgeback and Scott: They all don't have
> mudguards, guess I could add some later maybe?
>
> Oh, well, sorry for this rather vague posting. Maybe someone will have
> some ideas
>
> bye for now,
> Mark.

 

[C]

In article <[email protected]>,
Mark Roberts <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm confused by the "Women's" frames - The major difference seems to
>be the "step-through" design... for dresses?

That may have been true 30 years ago. Today, the major difference
between a "women's" frame and a men's frame is the top tube length.
Women's frames usually have a shorter top tube so the handlebar is
closer to the seat. Many shorter women will have trouble comfortably
reaching the handlebars without this design. Many women's frames also
use smaller wheels (650 instead of 700) to help make the top tube shorter.

 

[maxo]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 10:13:02 -0800, Mark Roberts wrote:

> I'm thinking a hybrid will be the best option for her, as we're
> probably not going to cycle hundreds of miles with panniers or go for
> maximum speed. But having said that, we will be cycling for 3-4hours
> at a time and pretty hard if I get my way

I'm thinking you need these things:

compact women's frame
drop handlebars at seat level
cantilever brakes to allow for:
fenders

Drop bars at saddle height are extremely comfy, especially the hoods. 50%
of the "hybrid" (I hate that term, btw) riders out here I see clutching
the bare bar in the middle after a half hour or so, desperate for another
hand position. Flat bars are the least comfy around--stay far away from
those so-called "flat bar road bikes", which were invented by a very dim
bulb.

Compact frames are pretty common these days and will give your gf a comfy
standover height. Make sure the bike shop sets her up with a proper stem
length.

Cantilever brakes and fenders go together hand in hand, the cantis
offering plenty of clearance for the mudguards. I've been able to ride 3x
as much this winter because of my fenders, since I don't have to worry
bout getting cold and wet.

A few bikes will satisfy these requirements they might be called
cyclocross (higher bottom bracket) or touring or "all-rounders"--just look
for the features and braze ons to accomodate whatever accessories you're
going to get.

 

[David]

"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> You need a tandem, or either you or your girlfriend will NOT be happy,
> and the bike will soon go unused.
>
A divorcycle?

 

[Bill Sornson]

Rich top-posted: {moved for coherency}

> Mark Roberts wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm trying to help my girlfriend find a bike so we can ride togther.
>> I ride a fair bit and have three bikes: an alu commuter hybrid, steel
>> tourer and titanium/carbon road bike.
>>
>> I'm thinking a hybrid will be the best option for her, as we're
>> probably not going to cycle hundreds of miles with panniers or go for
>> maximum speed. But having said that, we will be cycling for 3-4hours
>> at a time and pretty hard if I get my way
>>
>> I'm confused by the "Women's" frames - The major difference seems to
>> be the "step-through" design... for dresses? I'd really appreciate
>> hearing from anyone that can comment on the differences, and maybe
>> recommend a bike... I'm looking at the Dawes Sonoran - is this any
>> good?
>>
>> Also been looking at Trek, Ridgeback and Scott: They all don't have
>> mudguards, guess I could add some later maybe?
>>
>> Oh, well, sorry for this rather vague posting. Maybe someone will
>> have some ideas

> You need a tandem, or either you or your girlfriend will NOT be happy,
> and the bike will soon go unused.
>
> With a tandem, you can actually ride together, as opposed to riding in
> close proximity with you either wishing to go faster or her thinking
> your a jerk for leaving her behind.
>
> A tandem allows you to both ride to your best, or desired, ability.
> And you can carry on a conversation while you ride. My wife used to
> rarely
> go riding with me, but now it's her that suggests we go riding all
> the time.

There you go again -- assuming you know what other people need.

Some women HATE tandems.
--
BS (no, really)

 

[Rich]

Bill Sornson wrote:

> There you go again -- assuming you know what other people need.
>
> Some women HATE tandems.

He asked for opinions. I gave him one.

And while it's possible she'd hate the tandem, given it appears she's
not currently a rider I think she's more likely to like the the tandem
then trying to keep up with a much stronger rider on a 3 hour ride.

I'd surmise, although I have no data on this, is that most of the the
women that hate tandems are probably already riders, or whose tandem
experience was with a lousy captain.

Rich

 

[Darin McGrew]

Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'd surmise, although I have no data on this, is that most of the the
> women that hate tandems are probably already riders, or whose tandem
> experience was with a lousy captain.

Or maybe with the wrong tandem. My wife disliked riding the traditional
tandems that we tried, but loves riding our Bilenky Viewpoint.
--
Darin McGrew, [email protected], http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, [email protected], http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance."

 

[Cathy Kearns]

"Mark Roberts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to help my girlfriend find a bike so we can ride togther. I
> ride a fair bit and have three bikes: an alu commuter hybrid, steel
> tourer and titanium/carbon road bike.

So which of these are you planning on riding with her? You might want to
match types. My husband always wanted me to go riding with him. He has a
carbon fiber road bike, I have a steel hybrid with baskets for groceries.
Not gonna happen. After a few years of tandeming, my carbon fiber road bike
is on order.
>
> I'm thinking a hybrid will be the best option for her, as we're
> probably not going to cycle hundreds of miles with panniers or go for
> maximum speed. But having said that, we will be cycling for 3-4hours
> at a time and pretty hard if I get my way

Is she a jock? If so you might get that competitve thrill you are looking
for. I assume she first gets to slaughter you at whatever is her sport. If
not, cycling 3-4 hours pretty hard doesn't really sound like the best date.
Especially if you want a second one. The tandem suggestion is good if a)
this is a long term girlfriend (they are expensive machines) and b) she
trusts your driving. I personally love tandeming. My husbands a good
steerer, he has lots more road biking experience than I do (but errand
runnin riding, I'm the queen...) and he can ride as hard as he wants and I'm
still there.
>
> I'm confused by the "Women's" frames - The major difference seems to
> be the "step-through" design... for dresses? I'd really appreciate
> hearing from anyone that can comment on the differences, and maybe
> recommend a bike... I'm looking at the Dawes Sonoran - is this any
> good?

I'm going with the trek bikes. The women's geometry frames are good for
small to average size women with longer legs and shorter torsos. If she has
a long torso (like most men) men's bikes work fine. If she's tall, she might
have trouble finding a women's bike big enough. They really feel great when
riding, compared to my old hybrid, which has the "dress" bar, but not the
shorter top bar distance. (The lower bar was so you could stand over a
taller bike...
dresses only work well on true commuter bikes, with chain guards and full
fenders. That said, I have been known to ride with my tennis dresses on...)
>
> Also been looking at Trek, Ridgeback and Scott: They all don't have
> mudguards, guess I could add some later maybe?

Where is the mud? If you are going mountain biking then she needs a
mountain bike. If you mean fenders then yeah, with the right brakes you can
add them later.
>
> Oh, well, sorry for this rather vague posting. Maybe someone will have
> some ideas
>
> bye for now,
> Mark.

 

[Conniebiker]

If you are planning ahead, disc ready is the way to go.

Even easier to fender

 

[maxo]

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 16:11:55 +1100, Conniebiker wrote:

> If you are planning ahead, disc ready is the way to go.
>
> Even easier to fender

pretty much anything other than short reach side pulls are easy to fender.

No eyelets? Bah, that's what zipties are for.

 

[[email protected]]

Cathy Kearns wrote:
> "Mark Roberts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm trying to help my girlfriend find a bike so we can ride
togther. I
> > ride a fair bit and have three bikes: an alu commuter hybrid, steel
> > tourer and titanium/carbon road bike.
>
> So which of these are you planning on riding with her? You might
want to
> match types. My husband always wanted me to go riding with him. He
has a
> carbon fiber road bike, I have a steel hybrid with baskets for
groceries.
> Not gonna happen. After a few years of tandeming, my carbon fiber
road bike
> is on order.

Well, like i said, not too long and not too fast... I'm thinking a
hybrid

> >
> > I'm thinking a hybrid will be the best option for her, as we're
> > probably not going to cycle hundreds of miles with panniers or go
for
> > maximum speed. But having said that, we will be cycling for
3-4hours
> > at a time and pretty hard if I get my way
>
> Is she a jock? If so you might get that competitve thrill you are
looking

If I want competitive thrill, I go cream-cracker a few other friends on
the my 7kg dream-machine.

> for. I assume she first gets to slaughter you at whatever is her
sport. If

Sure, when we find that sport. Until then I'll have to put up with her
superior intellect.

> not, cycling 3-4 hours pretty hard doesn't really sound like the best
date.

Does for me.

> Especially if you want a second one.

Luckily got past that little hurdle a few months ago. Thanks for the
tip though.

>The tandem suggestion is good if a)

Tandem ain't gonna be her thing, she'd hate looking at my **** all day
- she's far too competitive for that

> this is a long term girlfriend (they are expensive machines) and b)
she
> trusts your driving. I personally love tandeming. My husbands a
good
> steerer, he has lots more road biking experience than I do (but
errand
> runnin riding,

> I'm the queen...)

Really?

>and he can ride as hard as he wants and I'm
> still there.
> >
> > I'm confused by the "Women's" frames - The major difference seems
to
> > be the "step-through" design... for dresses? I'd really appreciate
> > hearing from anyone that can comment on the differences, and maybe
> > recommend a bike... I'm looking at the Dawes Sonoran - is this any
> > good?
>
> I'm going with the trek bikes. The women's geometry frames are good
for
> small to average size women with longer legs and shorter torsos. If
she has
> a long torso (like most men) men's bikes work fine. If she's tall,
she might
> have trouble finding a women's bike big enough. They really feel
great when
> riding, compared to my old hybrid, which has the "dress" bar, but not
the
> shorter top bar distance. (The lower bar was so you could stand over
a
> taller bike...
> dresses only work well on true commuter bikes, with chain guards and
full
> fenders. That said, I have been known to ride with my tennis dresses
on...)
> >
> > Also been looking at Trek, Ridgeback and Scott: They all don't have
> > mudguards, guess I could add some later maybe?
>
> Where is the mud? If you are going mountain biking then she needs a

On the roads. Here in England, there's quite a bit of it at this time
of year.

> mountain bike. If you mean fenders then yeah, with the right brakes
you can
> add them later.
> >
> > Oh, well, sorry for this rather vague posting. Maybe someone will
have
> > some ideas
> >
> > bye for now,
> > Mark.

 

[[email protected]]

Cathy Kearns wrote:
> "Mark Roberts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm trying to help my girlfriend find a bike so we can ride
togther. I
> > ride a fair bit and have three bikes: an alu commuter hybrid, steel
> > tourer and titanium/carbon road bike.
>
> So which of these are you planning on riding with her? You might
want to
> match types. My husband always wanted me to go riding with him. He
has a
> carbon fiber road bike, I have a steel hybrid with baskets for
groceries.
> Not gonna happen. After a few years of tandeming, my carbon fiber
road bike
> is on order.

Well, like i said, not too long and not too fast... I'm thinking a
hybrid

> >
> > I'm thinking a hybrid will be the best option for her, as we're
> > probably not going to cycle hundreds of miles with panniers or go
for
> > maximum speed. But having said that, we will be cycling for
3-4hours
> > at a time and pretty hard if I get my way
>
> Is she a jock? If so you might get that competitve thrill you are
looking

If I want competitive thrill, I go cream-cracker a few other friends on
the my 7kg dream-machine.

> for. I assume she first gets to slaughter you at whatever is her
sport. If

Sure, when we find that sport. Until then I'll have to put up with her
superior intellect.

> not, cycling 3-4 hours pretty hard doesn't really sound like the best
date.

Does for me.

> Especially if you want a second one.

Luckily got past that little hurdle a few months ago. Thanks for the
tip though.

>The tandem suggestion is good if a)

Tandem ain't gonna be her thing, she'd hate looking at my **** all day
- she's far too competitive for that

> this is a long term girlfriend (they are expensive machines) and b)
she
> trusts your driving. I personally love tandeming. My husbands a
good
> steerer, he has lots more road biking experience than I do (but
errand
> runnin riding,

> I'm the queen...)

Really?

>and he can ride as hard as he wants and I'm
> still there.
> >
> > I'm confused by the "Women's" frames - The major difference seems
to
> > be the "step-through" design... for dresses? I'd really appreciate
> > hearing from anyone that can comment on the differences, and maybe
> > recommend a bike... I'm looking at the Dawes Sonoran - is this any
> > good?
>
> I'm going with the trek bikes. The women's geometry frames are good
for
> small to average size women with longer legs and shorter torsos. If
she has
> a long torso (like most men) men's bikes work fine. If she's tall,
she might
> have trouble finding a women's bike big enough. They really feel
great when
> riding, compared to my old hybrid, which has the "dress" bar, but not
the
> shorter top bar distance. (The lower bar was so you could stand over
a
> taller bike...
> dresses only work well on true commuter bikes, with chain guards and
full
> fenders. That said, I have been known to ride with my tennis dresses
on...)
> >
> > Also been looking at Trek, Ridgeback and Scott: They all don't have
> > mudguards, guess I could add some later maybe?
>
> Where is the mud? If you are going mountain biking then she needs a

On the roads. Here in England, there's quite a bit of it at this time
of year.

> mountain bike. If you mean fenders then yeah, with the right brakes
you can
> add them later.
> >
> > Oh, well, sorry for this rather vague posting. Maybe someone will
have
> > some ideas
> >
> > bye for now,
> > Mark.

 

[[email protected]]

Cathy Kearns wrote:
> "Mark Roberts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm trying to help my girlfriend find a bike so we can ride
togther. I
> > ride a fair bit and have three bikes: an alu commuter hybrid, steel
> > tourer and titanium/carbon road bike.
>
> So which of these are you planning on riding with her? You might
want to
> match types. My husband always wanted me to go riding with him. He
has a
> carbon fiber road bike, I have a steel hybrid with baskets for
groceries.
> Not gonna happen. After a few years of tandeming, my carbon fiber
road bike
> is on order.

Well, like i said, not too long and not too fast... I'm thinking a
hybrid

> >
> > I'm thinking a hybrid will be the best option for her, as we're
> > probably not going to cycle hundreds of miles with panniers or go
for
> > maximum speed. But having said that, we will be cycling for
3-4hours
> > at a time and pretty hard if I get my way
>
> Is she a jock? If so you might get that competitve thrill you are
looking

If I want competitive thrill, I go cream-cracker a few other friends on
the my 7kg dream-machine.

> for. I assume she first gets to slaughter you at whatever is her
sport. If

Sure, when we find that sport. Until then I'll have to put up with her
superior intellect.

> not, cycling 3-4 hours pretty hard doesn't really sound like the best
date.

Does for me.

> Especially if you want a second one.

Luckily got past that little hurdle a few months ago. Thanks for the
tip though.

>The tandem suggestion is good if a)

Tandem ain't gonna be her thing, she'd hate looking at my **** all day
- she's far too competitive for that

> this is a long term girlfriend (they are expensive machines) and b)
she
> trusts your driving. I personally love tandeming. My husbands a
good
> steerer, he has lots more road biking experience than I do (but
errand
> runnin riding,

> I'm the queen...)

Really?

>and he can ride as hard as he wants and I'm
> still there.
> >
> > I'm confused by the "Women's" frames - The major difference seems
to
> > be the "step-through" design... for dresses? I'd really appreciate
> > hearing from anyone that can comment on the differences, and maybe
> > recommend a bike... I'm looking at the Dawes Sonoran - is this any
> > good?
>
> I'm going with the trek bikes. The women's geometry frames are good
for
> small to average size women with longer legs and shorter torsos. If
she has
> a long torso (like most men) men's bikes work fine. If she's tall,
she might
> have trouble finding a women's bike big enough. They really feel
great when
> riding, compared to my old hybrid, which has the "dress" bar, but not
the
> shorter top bar distance. (The lower bar was so you could stand over
a
> taller bike...
> dresses only work well on true commuter bikes, with chain guards and
full
> fenders. That said, I have been known to ride with my tennis dresses
on...)
> >
> > Also been looking at Trek, Ridgeback and Scott: They all don't have
> > mudguards, guess I could add some later maybe?
>
> Where is the mud? If you are going mountain biking then she needs a

On the roads. Here in England, there's quite a bit of it at this time
of year.

> mountain bike. If you mean fenders then yeah, with the right brakes
you can
> add them later.
> >
> > Oh, well, sorry for this rather vague posting. Maybe someone will
have
> > some ideas
> >
> > bye for now,
> > Mark.

 

[Bill Sornson]

Rich wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>
>> There you go again -- assuming you know what other people need.
>>
>> Some women HATE tandems.
>
> He asked for opinions. I gave him one.

No, you gave him a declaration (almost an ultimatum): "You need a tandem,
or either you or your girlfriend will NOT be happy, and the bike will soon
go unused."

Is it /just possible/ that you don't know everything, Rich???

 

[Rich]

Bill Sornson wrote:

> No, you gave him a declaration (almost an ultimatum): "You need a tandem,
> or either you or your girlfriend will NOT be happy, and the bike will soon
> go unused."

I stand by that original opinion. Fortunatly, if he gets her a single,
he can report back on the results in a few months. I think the odds
are in my favor.

> Is it /just possible/ that you don't know everything, Rich???

It's probable. Why do you ask?

 

[Patrick Lamb]

On 5 Jan 2005 10:13:02 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Roberts)
wrote:
>
>I'm trying to help my girlfriend find a bike so we can ride togther. I
>ride a fair bit and have three bikes: an alu commuter hybrid, steel
>tourer and titanium/carbon road bike.
>
>I'm thinking a hybrid will be the best option for her, as we're
>probably not going to cycle hundreds of miles with panniers or go for
>maximum speed. But having said that, we will be cycling for 3-4hours
>at a time and pretty hard if I get my way

One problem with asking for opinions is that you're likely to get
some. From your description, it sounds like your girlfriend is not a
cyclist, and you want to get her to ride along with your for 3-4
hours, hammering pretty hard. Right?

I think Rich's tandem is a reasonable approach. However, I have this
feeling this gal won't be your girlfriend for very long. She doesn't
ride a bike now, and you're going to drag her for way too long, way
too soon. I'd guess she'll leave you within three months. Buy a used
hybrid. It won't hurt as much after the breakup. Then go find a
ready-made cycling girlfriend in your local cycling club who already
has her own bike. (Good luck, I hear they're hard to find!)

Further advice? First, relax. You'll be lucky if she's ready to ride
3-4 hours at a time by the summer of 2006, if she hasn't started.
You've got to get her addicted, and to do that, you have to arrange
things so she associates cycling with having fun with you.

Next, get her that used hybrid. Make sure it's a nice bike. Get
yourself a gas pipe mountain bike, used or even Huffy. She'll
naturally be slower than you, so you take the heavier bike to
compensate.

Now DO NOT go for a long ride yet! Find a nice, quiet route where you
two can ride along for 2-3 miles while you talk. No more than half a
block of moderate traffic allowed -- you don't want to scare her off.
It's best if it starts near either your place or hers, and ends up at
a coffee shop, bakery, ice cream parlor, etc. Ride down there with
her 2-3 times a week. You may race her no more than once every 10
rides, for no more than one block. If she challenges you, then go for
it; just don't push it, and make sure she wins at least one time out
of every three.

You should probably go hammer once a week with your bike buddies to
burn off excess testosterone at this stage. You've got a year to go
yet.

After two-three months of this, find a longer ride -- say 5-7 miles
each way. Make sure the endpoint is someplace she likes to go with
you. Ride beside her and talk with her for significant parts of each
ride. If she's still with you, a little more traffic may be
acceptable, as long as she's not too uncomfortable with it. If
there's a couple of places or routes that fit this description, so
much the better. Same rules on racing as before. After a few more
months, try planning a special outing, out in the country for a
picnic, for example, 10-15 miles away, or to a nice park. Make it
special! Don't wear her out!

Remember, you're still wooing this girl on two fronts: you're a person
she wants to spend more time with, and biking is something she wants
to do more of.

Keep at it. If you've succeeded by this time next year, and this
girlfriend is still with you, then you can start training with her for
those longer rides you want to do.

Good luck!

(Let the flames begin!)

Pat

Email address works as is.

 

[dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers]

As a woman, I find I don't *need* a step-through design bike as I *never* cycle
whilst wearing a skirt or a dress. My clothing of choice is a pair of padded
Lycra cycle shorts with a pair of RonHill Bikesters over the top.

*My* bike of choice for everyday cycling is an Audax/tourer bike - in my case a
Bianchi San Remo. I have put a woman specific saddle on it though - a Terry's
Liberator TiLite and that's all the woman specific adaptations necessary for
*me*. The key thing for any bike, whoever it is for, is fit.


>I'm thinking a hybrid will be the best option for her, as we're
>probably not going to cycle hundreds of miles with panniers or go for
>maximum speed. But having said that, we will be cycling for 3-4hours
>at a time and pretty hard if I get my way

Don't want to put a downer on your plans, but if your girlfriend is not
currently a cyclist, the quickest way you are likely to put her off cycling is
to buy her a bike and then take her on long and/or hard rides. Make it fun for
her - start off slowly, shoirt distances and *gradually* build up distances &
speed at a pace which is comfortable for her - not for you. You will need to
demonstrate patience.


>I'm confused by the "Women's" frames - The major difference seems to
>be the "step-through" design... for dresses? I'd really appreciate
>hearing from anyone that can comment on the differences, and maybe
>recommend a bike... I'm looking at the Dawes Sonoran - is this any
>good?

If she's short, petite, she may well require a female specific frame (shorter
top-tube length) but I'm 5'7" and I don't need a "woman's frame"

>Also been looking at Trek, Ridgeback and Scott: They all don't have
>mudguards, guess I could add some later maybe?

Mudguards are a good thing in wet weather. I love my mudguards - I don't like
having what looks like an accident from an overdose of laxatives up my backside
- mudguards prevent this

One thing - drops - I'd never ridden drops until I was in my forties. Took a
while to get used to them, but now I love them.

The key thing is that the bike fits her. Don't get a mountain bike unless you
are going to be doing off-road.

Cheers, helen s


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to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--