Goodbye



Bill Sornson writes:

>>>>>> Maybe you've been living in a cave, Bill.


>>>>> No. That's precisely the problem with Billie: unlike his
>>>>> butt-boy in arms, Hickey, he's too stubborn to admit defeat and
>>>>> crawl back INTO his cave, along with all the other discredited
>>>>> ultra right, frothing at the mouth, Fox news, ditto head,
>>>>> so-called "Christian", neocon wacky jobs who have all but
>>>>> destroyed American credibility worldwide.


>>> Proof that the Left's goal is to force people to stay quiet.
>>> Perfect.


>>>> That pretty much sums it up.


>>> The crude hate and vitriol on the left? Yup.


>> I think you ought to look around and notice that you and one or two
>> others among all the writers here stand alone in your perception of
>> what our country is doing under the guidance of our president.
>> This may be a time to reassess your trust in GWB/Cheney (aka
>> Mephistopheles).


> That's a spearate issue from the lies and hypocrisy of the far left.


>> You haven't complained that this thread is off topic lately. I saw
>> that as another way of suppressing opinions when you used that in
>> the past to squelch political discussion opposed to your viewpoint.


>> Mark Hickey let the cat out of the bag and now you get to see how
>> that political perception goes with the majority of wreck.bike
>> folks.


> The entire thread was about Mark leaving and why.


> That's different from you introducing off-topic threads by posting
> 9-11 conspiracy links, for example (one of many).


The whole thread is about political postings and who said what. It's
all about the entire Bush administration that is about 911 and his war
in Iraq. Now don't tell me that Iraq has nothing to do with GWB's
perception of 911, and his impetus to go to war.

> But the next time someone posts a RIDE REPORT in rec.bicycles.misc,
> by all means be sure to snidely flame them for not putting it in
> rec.rides.


Maybe you can quote that posting to show that I flamed the writer of
that thread and that it wasn't eons ago. The exchanges here have been
full of rude name calling and insinuations, the likes of which never
appeared in anything I wrote. As I recall I asked the writer to also
post his ride report in that newsgroup (rec.bicycles.rides) so those
readers who are interested in ride reports won't miss it. I see no
flames in that request that seems to have occurred years ago... and
elephants never forget!

Jobst Brandt
 
On Apr 28, 1:02 am, [email protected] wrote:
> Mark Hickey decided to reply at the 50th post.
>
> So again, if-I-recall-correctly, Mark Hickey didn't start political
> threads and was not the first to shift a thread to politics. He
> typically replied to posters who did so.


Just out of curiosity I went back and looked at some threads that had
both Hickey and myself in them. Without doing a count, it looked to me
like roughly half of them had Hickey jumping in to argue politics
before I did. He may not have started political threads but he was
quick to jump in when they came up, just as I usually am. I am an
experienced cyclist with nearly 40 years of serious riding and racing,
and cycling is one of my main passions after my family. But I consider
one of my purposes on usenet to be step into these threads and support
the progressive viewpoint. My experience is that, over the years,
there has been a shift from a usenet environment where it was pretty
hostile to anyone with a "liberal" point of view- a conservative could
make any kind of snotty remark about Clinton or "liberals" but if a
liberal responded they would be instantly attacked for going OT- to
one where the progressive viewpoint (I consider myself a progressive,
not a liberal) has become perhaps predominant; this probably reflects
the same trend that we have seen in society as a whole, with Bush
sinking to extremely low popularity levels and Republicans losing
control of Congress. It must be discouraging to a True Believer like
Hickey to find himself in a situation where everything he believes in
is becoming increasingly indefensible from both a factual and moral
basis. The fact is, Hickey was frequently an early and ardent
participant in political threads, and now he is leaving because it has
become too uncomfortable for him? I don't know that that's why he's
leaving, but if it is, it's not because there are too many political
discussions here on rbt; it's because he is coming out on the losing
side of them. If he were able to quickly beat down his opposition, he
would still be here. But they ain't makin' liberals like Jimmy Carter
anymore.
 
On 28 Apr 2007 00:16:20 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

> Bill Sornson writes:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:

>
>>>> I did not write that. Please be more careful in your attributions
>>>> and/or posting format. (Not to mention that you snipped what the
>>>> /subject/ of what followed was, leaving the reader to guess.)

>
>> All you do is whine, perfessor.

>
>> Bill "lemme guess: whoosh?" S.

>
> How about counting from one to three. One ">" is what you wrote, two
> ">" is what Frank wrote, an no prefix is what I wrote. Where do you
> see what Frank wrote? I don't see it. I think you were either
> overzealous in trimming or you don't understand how posting to
> newsgroups works.
>
> Jobst Brandt


Jobst, he's *always* doing this.

As I said before, he has trouble with either

a) the usenet quoting convention; or

b) numbers larger than 2.
 
In rec.bicycles.tech A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> Even for you that's over the top. 50.9% (vs. 48.5%) of adult
> registered voter Americans who bothered to go to the polls insane?
> Ignorant?


Agreed. But what is the alternative, "hostile"?

--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer
 
Mark Hickey wrote:
> I had an epiphany.


Mark,

As more a lurker than a participant, I'll personally miss you. I also
hope you'll reconsider and return. As I'm new here, I can't say how the
content providers have increased or decreased, but the trend you note is
common in ng's.

I tend to spend more time in moderated Web based ng's due to the general
deterioration of the Usenet from when I started back in the 80's. Still,
for me there has been great content here from you among others. While
you have no way to enumerate the value you and others bring to lurkers
like me, it's there.

Good luck and I hope we see you back soon.

-Paul
 
On Apr 28, 11:47 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ERT ERT DISS EEEESSSS ROLLOFF
> COME IN ERT
>
> VEE HAFF LOCATED SCI.GEO.EARTHQUAKES
> UND REFFER EWE TO ZITT FUR ELABOATION
>
> DAS UT ERT #355
>
> ROLLOFF OUT


Ground control to Maj. Koll.

Ground control to Maj. Koll

Ground control to Maj. Koll
 
On 28 Apr 2007 03:48:42 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>On Apr 28, 1:02 am, [email protected] wrote:
>> Mark Hickey decided to reply at the 50th post.
>>
>> So again, if-I-recall-correctly, Mark Hickey didn't start political
>> threads and was not the first to shift a thread to politics. He
>> typically replied to posters who did so.

>
>Just out of curiosity I went back and looked at some threads that had
>both Hickey and myself in them. Without doing a count, it looked to me
>like roughly half of them had Hickey jumping in to argue politics
>before I did. He may not have started political threads but he was
>quick to jump in when they came up, just as I usually am.


[snip]

Dear SSTW,

Just to clarify things . . .

As I understand it, the topic was not who hit the buzzer first after
someone else raised a political topic on the bike group.

We were talking about whether Mark Hickey started political threads or
changed them, not how quickly Mark replied to them.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
Dans le message de news:[email protected],
[email protected] <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré
:

>
> We were talking about whether Mark Hickey started political threads or
> changed them, not how quickly Mark replied to them.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel


Sadly, this is true. It's time the homilies ended.

We are talking about a person with a dedicated political agenda, complicated
by blinders, finding himself in a narrow and unescapable position of
fragility (mind, spirit, fact) and giving up. Good, and good riddance to
that side of the person, in _this_ newsgroup. He took a chance he would
find many political allies here, and he erred.

On the other hand, a capable and technically oriented person decides to take
whatever expertise he could offer, because he couldn't cope with
unrelenting, heated (maybe even abusive, depending on your viewpoint)
_political_ exchanges. "It's my ball and I'm going home." His expertise
will possibly be missed, possibly replaced. His dig at jim beam was as
close as he could get to a parting shot on the technical side. But not only
was all that chatter OT, it was as futile, blustering and half-blind as his
debate opponents.

I wonder if he actually feels no responsibility for the downward spiral he
helped to create for himself. It seems to have been the tenor of his
whining exit text.

Clearly, I don't expect to make friends with this message, but it's not my
intent. My intent, in frustration, is to help bury this thread.
 
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:09:55 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>That's a spearate issue from the lies and hypocrisy of the far left.


The far left is as bad as the far right. Such as the hypocrites
"Tawana" Sharpton and "Hymietown" Jackson, who never met a race card
they wouldn't pull and a bandwagon they wouldn't jump on, who were the
impetus being elevating Don Imus' unfortunate molehill of a bad taste
joke into the mountain of his losing his job. Or all the knee jerk
campus commies who tried and convicted the Duke lacrosse players in
the media and assassinated their characters before it was proven that
it the truth consisted of a crooked prosecutor manipulating a crack
addled stripper for his own political ambition

Yes, Bill, some of us can see both sides. What you and your Far Right
friends continually seem to commit is the logical fallacy of two
wrongs make a right. They don't. Wrong is wrong, whether the deed
of an insufferable politically correct leftist snob; or a greedy,
venal, common thief who calls himself a "Christian."
 
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:12:41 GMT, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>We have already been humiliated in the eyes of the world not only by
>this fools' first term but also by the fact that he somehow got
>re-elected by a large margin.


False. In what fantasy universe is 51% - 49% "large?"

>That says the voters are at least as
>stupid as he is.


True. So pathetically true.
 
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:24:35 -0500, "DI" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I get everything from assholes like you, then do just the opposite, can't go
>wrong by doing that..


My god. There IS another reader of these groups as intellectually
challenged as Sornsen.

Will wonders never cease?
 
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:43:58 GMT, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:


>Would anybody here argue with an amendment to the Constitution that the
>absolute minimum I.Q. to hold any office would be 110 or so?


If the I.Q. minimum to post on usenet were raised to room temperature,
we could get rid of Sornson :)
 
On Apr 27, 10:56 pm, still me <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:33:46 GMT, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> >> IMO, many Americans are more appalled by Bush & Co. than are people in
> >> other parts of the world. It is, after all, our country and our
> >> national reputation which are in peril.

>
> >Yeah,
> >The father and son Bush act has pretty well screwed our reputation with
> >the 'civilized' world. I think we were actually fairly popular with
> >Clinton running the show, horndog or not.
> >Bill Baka

>
> Bush Sr was not a bad guy. Intelligent, not a puppet, did some good,
> did some bad. At least when he invaded Iraq, there was a legitimate
> reason. His overall foreign policy wasn't that horrible.


He didn't invade Iraq. The UN mandate was to get the Iraqis out of
Kuwait and that's what the coaliton did. Bush Sr. and his key
advisors were too intelligent and well-informed to want to invade
Iraq.

Even with a competent invasion it was clear that occupying Iraq woud
be a nightmare.
>
> Jr, OTOH, has destroyed decades of reasonable foreign policy by a
> variety of Presidents, Republican and Democrat.


Well, I'd quibble about "reasonable foreign policy" but Jr has
managed to do immense damage to US prestige and legitimacy.
 
"Doug Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:24:35 -0500, "DI" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I get everything from assholes like you, then do just the opposite, can't
>>go
>>wrong by doing that..

>
> My god. There IS another reader of these groups as intellectually
> challenged as Sornsen.
>
> Will wonders never cease?


You have to consider who I was talking to, JT would not understand or
acknowledge anything sensible, he was baiting me into saying I watched Fox
News so he could jump on that. "Intellectually challenged"? dream on
Professor.
 
DI wrote:
> "Doug Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:24:35 -0500, "DI" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I get everything from assholes like you, then do just the opposite,
>>> can't go
>>> wrong by doing that..

>>
>> My god. There IS another reader of these groups as intellectually
>> challenged as Sornsen.
>>
>> Will wonders never cease?

>
> You have to consider who I was talking to, JT would not understand or
> acknowledge anything sensible, he was baiting me into saying I
> watched Fox News so he could jump on that. "Intellectually
> challenged"? dream on Professor.


Dougie might be a druggie; would explain the irrational anger and hysteria.
(Of course, so would just being an asswipe ;-) )
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Michael Press wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm a nitpicker, but in this case...
> >>
> >>> When an attribution line is at level n quotes deep, the writing
> >>> attributed to the author in the attribution line is quoted at
> >>> level n+1 quotes deep. sm did not attribute to you the line you
> >>> contend he did.
> >>
> >> His format was wrong (as above). You of all people should
> >> acknowledge that.

> >
> > What I am saying is that sm's posting did not attribute to you the
> > words `I deal with facts, not ideologies. So, here's a few.' and I
> > stand by that.
> >
> > It goes like this
> >
> > ________________________BEGIN________________________
> >
> > On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:43:21 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > I deal with facts, not ideologies. So, here's a few.
> >
> >> I think he's been so /demonized/ by the left AND the media that

> > no one can
> >> objectively judge any more. HALIBURTON! (Even though he's been

> > away for
> >> many years.)

> > _________________________END________________________
> >
> >
> > Notice that the word 'I deal ...' are not one quote deeper than
> > the attribution line.

>
> All true. BUT -- it's generally accepted that one doesn't write new text
> below the sole attribution but above the quoted text. As I said (repeatedly
> now), it's about FORMAT not misquoting.


By rule, the words were not attributed to you. If you think that
sm was playing fast and loose, then so be it; the actual text is
not sufficient to support your assertion.

--
Michael Press
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> On Apr 28, 12:36 am, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article
> > <[email protected]>,
> >
> > [email protected] wrote:
> > > Hmm. I see a logical problem. If no one is to make charges without
> > > proof, why would anyone investigate anything?

> >
> > Yes, that is how it is done.
> >
> > > The way things
> > > generally go is this: There's an accusation of some sort; people look
> > > for evidence for and against; the evidence is evaluated; and in
> > > certain cases, the accusation is proven. Proof does not generally
> > > come first.

> >
> > What you describe is persecution.

>
> Really? I thought I was describing the workings of the US legal
> system, and (more generally) the development of mathematical proofs,
> among other things.
>
> Do you really think that mathematical proofs come before conjectures,
> or that convictions come before legal charges?


The public prosecutor typically gathers evidence for a
prosecution after a crime has been proved. Gathering
of evidence on an individual before a crime is proved
is persecution. Not that the latter does not occur regularly.

--
Michael Press
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> On Apr 28, 1:02 am, [email protected] wrote:
> > Mark Hickey decided to reply at the 50th post.
> >
> > So again, if-I-recall-correctly, Mark Hickey didn't start political
> > threads and was not the first to shift a thread to politics. He
> > typically replied to posters who did so.

>
> Just out of curiosity I went back and looked at some threads that had
> both Hickey and myself in them. Without doing a count, it looked to me
> like roughly half of them had Hickey jumping in to argue politics
> before I did. H


It is up to you to provide proof.

--
Michael Press
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> Michael Press writes:
>
> >> Hmm. I see a logical problem. If no one is to make charges
> >> without proof, why would anyone investigate anything?

>
> > Yes, that is how it is done.

>
> Not in the world that I live in.
>
> >> The way things generally go is this: There's an accusation of some
> >> sort; people look for evidence for and against; the evidence is
> >> evaluated; and in certain cases, the accusation is proven. Proof
> >> does not generally come first.

>
> > What you describe is persecution.

>
> Oops, that's spelled "prosecution".


Are you being coy, or do you disagree with my point of view?
Gathering data on an individual with intent to prosecute _before_
a crime is proven is persecution.

--
Michael Press