Gordon Brown, the cyclists' friend?

[wafflycat]

"Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Phil Cook wrote:
>> Tony Raven wrote:
>>
>>> Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>>>> Stick a sign on your back which says "BAND A". Good name for a band -
>>>> anyone here play the drums? Or are we all musical? <ducks>
>>>>
>>> I've got a spare wheel, model of the Eiffel Tower and some drum sticks
>>> is that helps ;-)
>>
>> I've got a fridge and a newspaper
>>
>
> Do I hear a hoover anywhere? Where shall we rendezvous?
>

I have two...

May I suggest Belleville for a rendezvous?

Cheers, helen s

 

[wafflycat]

"Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> wafflycat wrote:
>>>
>>>> According to the BBC news site, Gordo has reduced VED on the least
>>>> polluting
>>>> cars to zero.
>>>
>>> Hah! Fantastic
>>>
>>
>> I expect uk.tosspot will be delighted at the news ;-)
>>
>> Cheers, helen s
>>
>
> Have you popped over to tell them?
>

No... I'm resisting

Cheers, helen s

 

[Tony Raven]

wafflycat wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> I expect uk.tosspot will be delighted at the news ;-)
>>>
>>> Cheers, helen s
>>>
>>
>> Have you popped over to tell them?
>>
>
> No... I'm resisting
>
> Cheers, helen s
>
<Mrs Doyle>
Ah, go-on, go-on, go-on, go-on, go-on, go-on, go-on, go-on, go-on,
go-on, go-on, go-on, go-on, go-on, go-on, go-on, (cont p93)
</Mrs Doyle>

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

 

[Tim Hall]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:29:08 -0000, Dave Larrington
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>Honda UK's web site is absolutely the worst I have ever seen, bad web
>site fans.


William, as you would say. Style towering over substance, and ****
poor style at that. Animation all over the place, no menus in the
normal sense as far as I could see and, best of all, down loadable
pdfs that don't have an extension.

I'm not getting one of their cars because of that.


Tim

 

[Ambrose Nankivell]

David Hansen wrote:
> On 22 Mar 2006 08:47:29 -0800 someone who may be "David E. Belcher"
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
>> Certainly not *this* cyclist's friend, as I've just read that he's
>> stuck another 1p on the price of a pint of beer
>
> Time to switch to cider. No increase in "pub tax" again.

ITYM "Pub Fund License"

--
Ambrose

 

[someone here]

"Alan Braggins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> >On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:10:49 -0000, "wafflycat" said
> >
> >>According to the BBC news site, Gordo has reduced VED on the least
polluting
> >>cars to zero.
> >
> >Hah! Fantastic
>
> Well, at least it provides an incentive to develop lower emission cars.
> http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vedSearch.asp doesn't actually
> list any cars in Band A yet.
> (I could be wrong in thinking he's keeping the same bands and changing
> the rates.)

Check out the home page for that website....
Hints for less Environmental Damage

top of the list!
.. Try to avoid using your car for short journeys - use public transport,
ride a bicycle or walk.

somebody remembered us!

Dave

 

[Nigel Cliffe]

David Martin wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:10:50 -0000, "Ambrose Nankivell"
>> <[email protected]> said in <[email protected]>:
>>
>>> Excellent. I'll try shouting this exchange at the next driver who
>>> excuses intimidating me whilst I'm on my bike with the 'Road Tax'
>>> canard.

> Probably correct. A back of the envelope calculation based on various
> assumptions[1] gives a gross CO2 exhalation rate for a cyclist at
> about 10-50 g/km. Though the net would be much less.
>
> Unlike motor vehicles, cyclists exhale more CO2 per km when going
> slowly than when going fast.


But, all the CO2 from the breath of a cyclist comes from renewable energy
sources - plants (directly, or via the animals which ate the plants). So,
they are carbon neutral.

Unlike almost all car exhaust emissions which use fossil fuel reserves,
though there is some very limited use of bio-fuels.


( I too thought much the same as Helen Wafflycat when the budget
announcement came on the news. Though the practicalities of holding such a
debate with a moronic motor vehicle owner are low ).


- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

 

[Pete Whelan]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:10:50 -0000, "Ambrose Nankivell"
> <[email protected]> said in <[email protected]>:
>
>
>>Excellent. I'll try shouting this exchange at the next driver who excuses
>>intimidating me whilst I'm on my bike with the 'Road Tax' canard.
>
>
> Stick a sign on your back which says "BAND A". Good name for a band -
> anyone here play the drums? Or are we all musical? <ducks>
>
> Guy

I'd probably be Band 'B' after a beer and curry

--
"You can't see paradise if you don't pedal" (Fowler, Chicken Run)

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Dave
Larrington ('[email protected]') wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Keith Willoughby
> ([email protected]) wrote:
>> Matt B <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>> > wafflycat wrote:
>> >> According to the BBC news site, Gordo has reduced VED on the least
>> >> polluting cars to zero.
>> >
>> > For band A, up to 100g/km CO2 - how many vehicle models do you think
>> > that covers? Precisely none in todays list of available cars.
>>
>> The Prius is close. 104g/k. Seems like an incentive to get it a bit
>> lower to me.
>
> Honda Insight: 80g/km.
>
> Honda UK's web site is absolutely the worst I have ever seen, bad web
> site fans.

Isn't it just! Completely useless.

Anyone tried to carry a bike with/in/on one of these?

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for
murther
-- Roburt Burns, 'Thanksgiving For a National Victory'

 

[wafflycat]

"Pete Whelan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> I'd probably be Band 'B' after a beer and curry
>
>

Only a band B? I shall have to enquire of Mrs Whelan as to the accuracy of
your pronouncement ;-)

Cheers, helen s

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Phil Cook
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Keith Willoughby wrote:
>
>>Matt B <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> wafflycat wrote:
>>>> According to the BBC news site, Gordo has reduced VED on the least
>>>> polluting cars to zero.
>>>
>>> For band A, up to 100g/km CO2 - how many vehicle models do you think
>>> that covers? Precisely none in todays list of available cars.
>>
>>The Prius is close. 104g/k. Seems like an incentive to get it a bit
>>lower to me.
>
> But, let's face it, would you really want to be seen driving a car
> /that/ ugly?

I'm not in a position to talk, since I drive a 4x4 which is both ugly and
inefficient. However, if you are going to prioritise your vanity over
your grandchildren's survival, what does that say about you?

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; in faecibus sapiens rheum propagabit

 

[Tony Raven]

Nigel Cliffe wrote:
>
> But, all the CO2 from the breath of a cyclist comes from renewable energy
> sources - plants (directly, or via the animals which ate the plants). So,
> they are carbon neutral.
>

Google here for the fossil carbon associated with food production and
distribution.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

 

[Nigel Cliffe]

Tony Raven wrote:
> Nigel Cliffe wrote:
>>
>> But, all the CO2 from the breath of a cyclist comes from renewable
>> energy sources - plants (directly, or via the animals which ate the
>> plants). So, they are carbon neutral.
>>
>
> Google here for the fossil carbon associated with food production and
> distribution.

Stuff grown in my garden has very low distribution impact

However, take your point on food miles in general.

In calculating the carbon difference for cyclist or driver, one needs to
deduct the car driver breathing rate from the cyclist breathing rate.


- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

 

[Tony Raven]

Nigel Cliffe wrote:
> Tony Raven wrote:
>> Nigel Cliffe wrote:
>>> But, all the CO2 from the breath of a cyclist comes from renewable
>>> energy sources - plants (directly, or via the animals which ate the
>>> plants). So, they are carbon neutral.
>>>
>> Google here for the fossil carbon associated with food production and
>> distribution.
>
> Stuff grown in my garden has very low distribution impact
>
> However, take your point on food miles in general.
>

Its not just food miles. Fertiliser is carbon positive as is use of
farm machinery, heating etc. Programme on Radio 4 the other day on the
subject pointed out that Spanish tomatoes create far less food miles CO2
than the CO2 from heating greenhouses to grow them in the UK.


--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

 

[Ambrose Nankivell]

Tony Raven wrote:
> Nigel Cliffe wrote:
>> Tony Raven wrote:
>>> Nigel Cliffe wrote:
>>>> But, all the CO2 from the breath of a cyclist comes from renewable
>>>> energy sources - plants (directly, or via the animals which ate the
>>>> plants). So, they are carbon neutral.
>>>>
>>> Google here for the fossil carbon associated with food production
>>> and distribution.
>>
>> Stuff grown in my garden has very low distribution impact
>>
>> However, take your point on food miles in general.
>>
>
> Its not just food miles. Fertiliser is carbon positive as is use of
> farm machinery, heating etc. Programme on Radio 4 the other day on
> the subject pointed out that Spanish tomatoes create far less food
> miles CO2 than the CO2 from heating greenhouses to grow them in the
> UK.

Although the water cost of the Spanish ones is greater.

--
Ambrose

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Douglas Steel
('[email protected]') wrote:

> There's a discussion of the relative emissions over the lifetime
> of cars, bicycles and other forms of transport over here:
> http://www.yes-but.net/cycling_is_3env_unfriendly.html

That's a /very/ dodgy piece of work. There argument is essentially that
because the average bicycle that is sold is ****, it needs a lot of
spares and isn't cycled very far. This is clearly confusing things
badly. The average bicycle that is sold is indeed ****, and does indeed
travel very few miles. Consequently it gets almost no maintenance,
because, never being used, nothing wears out (although chains and cables
eventually seize up into nasty bits of rust). The bikes which /do/
travel lots of miles are on the whole not **** and need relatively
little maintenance.

This is like saying that because Bentley Mulsaunne Turbos are not fuel
efficient, all cars are not fuel efficient. A well maintained bicycle
used by a commuting or keen recreational cyclist will do a lot of miles
per unit of manufacturing energy cost, and per unit of raw materials
consumed; my fourteen-year-old Raleigh has certainly earned back its
manufacturing cost many times over in terms of fuel saved.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.

 

[Pete Whelan]

wafflycat wrote:
>
> "Pete Whelan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> I'd probably be Band 'B' after a beer and curry
>>
>>
>
> Only a band B? I shall have to enquire of Mrs Whelan as to the accuracy
> of your pronouncement ;-)
>
> Cheers, helen s
>

with me being 'special', it would probably be nearer Band 'Z'.

(veggie, especially greens .....)

--
"You can't see paradise if you don't pedal" (Fowler, Chicken Run)

 

[John Clayton]

Any chance of a translation into English please?
What do all these strange words, numbers and symbols mean?
If I spent long enough studying them and watching Top Gear would it help /
or improve one's intelligence?
Never mind, back to my peaknuckle.


--
John Clayton
www.calder-clarion.co.uk


"Matt B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Clive George wrote:
>> "Matt B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> wafflycat wrote:
>>>> According to the BBC news site, Gordo has reduced VED on the least
>>>> polluting cars to zero.
>>>
>>> For band A, up to 100g/km CO2 - how many vehicle models do you think
>>> that covers? Precisely none in todays list of available cars.
>>>
>>> The new higher band G for over 225g/km starts with the Audi TT Coupe,
>>> the Skoda Superb 1.8 and the VW Passat 1.8 and continues with the Volvo
>>> S60, the VW Beetle, the Vauxhall Astra 2.0i, the Peugeot 407 SW 2.2.
>>
>> <car nerd>
>
> All I know is from the government's emissions database.
> http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/downloads/
>
>> There's no such thing as a VW Passat 1.8 these days. I believe the 1.8
>> you're referring to is the 1.8 turbo, ie the high power one in the range.
>
> VW Passat Saloon 1.8 20v Turbo Tiptronic, 233g/km.
>
>> Ditto on the skoda.
>
> Same engine as Passat. 233g/km.
>
>> Beetle too.
>
> Beetle 2.0 Auto. 228g/km.
>
>> 407 SW 2.2 is not in band G - 219g/km, it's the V6 which is.
>
> SW 2.2 163bhp Auto 228g/km.
>
>> The astra is the higher powered turbo version.
>
> Astra 2.0i 16v Turbo. 22g/km.
>
>> The Volvo is the autoboxed bigger engined version too - even the normal
>> T5 misses it.
>
> S60 2.0 Auto. 227g/km.
> T5 Auto 229g/km.
>
> --
> Matt B

 

[David Martin]

Douglas Steel wrote:
> David Martin wrote:
> > Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> >
> >>On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:10:50 -0000, "Ambrose Nankivell"
> >><[email protected]> said in <[email protected]>:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Excellent. I'll try shouting this exchange at the next driver who excuses
> >>>intimidating me whilst I'm on my bike with the 'Road Tax' canard.
> >>
> >>Stick a sign on your back which says "BAND A". Good name for a band -
> >>anyone here play the drums? Or are we all musical? <ducks>
> >
> >
> > Probably correct. A back of the envelope calculation based on various
> > assumptions[1] gives a gross CO2 exhalation rate for a cyclist at about
> > 10-50 g/km. Though the net would be much less.
> >
> > Unlike motor vehicles, cyclists exhale more CO2 per km when going
> > slowly than when going fast.
> >
> > ..d
> >
> > [1] This probably means the figrues are wrong.
> > Assumptions. Mean tidal breath volume 3 litres.
> > Respiratory rate 30 breaths per min (working hard)
> > Speed about 10mph. (just over 3 mins per km)
> > % CO2 in exhaled breath ~4%
> >
> > At STP 1 mole gas takes 22.4 litres (IIRC OTTOMH). Mass 1 mole CO2 is
> > 52g.
> > So after 1km the cyclist has breathed out about 224 litres of air, of
> > which 4% or 20g is CO2.
>
> The molecular weight of CO2 is 12 + 16*2 = 44

<blush> So it is, and I was even lecturing a chemistry degree today.
WITWCT</blush>

>
> I've posted this elsewhere (uk.rec.driving) and your calculations
> are in the right ballpark:
>
> Having had the dubious pleasure of having my CO2 emisions actually
> tested in a lab (as part of a VO2Max test) on a bike, my max CO2
> emissions are approx 9g/min @ 380W - at that power output on a flat
> road on a windless day, I'll be doing around 46km/h or 1.3min/km - this
> would give a CO2 emission of around 12g/km. However, I would
> not be able to sustain that sort of speed for long.

Of course if you compare cycle-type (ie urban) journeys then the bike
begins to look much better, especially if you scale down the effort to
the same speed as the cars.


> There's a discussion of the relative emissions over the lifetime
> of cars, bicycles and other forms of transport over here:
> http://www.yes-but.net/cycling_is_3env_unfriendly.html
>
> Their conclusion:
> "Bicycles are about 2.5-3 times more environmentally friendly than cars."

Interesting to see how they factor in the manufacturing cost. What
would be more interesting, given the longer lifespan for bikes, is
comparing the equivalent urban journey usage over an extended period.
Over that time there woudl be a strong degree of
depreciation/replacement of parts.

...d

 

[Adam Lea]

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "elyob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
> The point is there will be cars for which the owner does not have to pay
> 'road tax' to have on the road.. which effectively puts to an end any
> vague link between 'road tax' giving the 'right' to be on the road as put
> forward by moronic petrolheads.
>
> Cheers, helen s
>

Sadly not, as they'll merely bring up the point about how much of the price
of fuel is tax and thus they are still paying for the roads many times over.