graeme vs commodore

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Dej, Sep 12, 2004.

  1. Dej

    Dej Guest

    i thought flouro yellow was a visible colour to wear?:)
    not according to the woman who drove from a sidestreet right in front of me,
    leaving me with about .5m to brake before running into the front quarter
    panel and then doing a 70's cop impersination sliding across the bonnet
    (before a not so stuntman like landing on the road).
    banged up the hip and elbow, the handlebars needed straightening (wheel
    wasnt bent, just the stem got a bit loose)
    And somehow, a couple of spokes on the back wheel lost all tension. The
    wheel is still straight so im not sure how that happened.

    I had a ride to sorrento planned this wednesday too:( hopefully the hip &
    elbow wont be too sore tomorrow though i imagine it wont feel too great..
     
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  2. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb New Member

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    Sheesh, take it easy & rest up! Did you obtain driver details etc?

    Finally used the AirZound2 on a alighting VW driver on Saturday. Could see it coming from 2-3m's away, but couldn't swerve out due to heavy traffic. Drivers head turned away from traffic, gabble gabble gabble to passenger, fling out door without even a passing look.......TTTTOOOOOOOOOOTTTTT!!! Ah, don't wish to frighten people unduly, but jeez that AirZound was money well spent.... :p
     
  3. aeek

    aeek New Member

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    they have to look at you for the colour to make a difference, and since a car won't be right next to the curb they don't look there. My feeling is to be seen from the sidestreet I need to be closer to the centreline than I am to the curb.
     
  4. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "aeek" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    > Dej Wrote:
    > > i thought flouro yellow was a visible colour to wear?:)
    > > not according to the woman who drove from a sidestreet right in front
    > > of me,
    > > leaving me with about .5m to brake before running into the front
    > > quarter
    > >

    >
    > they have to look at you for the colour to make a difference, and since
    > a car won't be right next to the curb they don't look there. My feeling
    > is to be seen from the sidestreet I need to be closer to the centreline
    > than I am to the curb.


    Very common incident.. happens a lot on my
    commutes (not the crashing part thankfully).
    Doesn't seem to matter if it's daylight or night
    or how bright my setup is. You just have to
    watch the front wheel of those side-street cars
    like a hawk and be ready to bail/stop/swerve if
    it moves towards you.
    Pity you had to go all the way and mess up
    yourself and the bike :(
    As long as you are in good nick that's what
    matters. Driver going to pay for damage?

    hippy
     
  5. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    I agree. drivers in general just arent in the habit of looking at that part of the road. goes something like...

    Pull up to intersection. look left at place where approaching car will be if i need to give way to it. No car in THAT spot. Pull out.

    I often raise my lights or wave my arm to get the attention of a driver sitting looking to pullout just to make sure they register my presence...
     
  6. DRS

    DRS Guest

    "cfsmtb" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]
    > Sheesh, take it easy & rest up! Did you obtain driver details etc?
    >
    > Finally used the AirZound2 on a alighting VW driver on Saturday. Could
    > see it coming from 2-3m's away, but couldn't swerve out due to heavy
    > traffic. Drivers head turned away from traffic, gabble gabble gabble
    > to passenger, fling out door without even a passing
    > look.......TTTTOOOOOOOOOOTTTTT!!! Ah, don't wish to frighten people
    > unduly, but jeez that AirZound was money well spent.... :p


    Ah, another convert. :)

    --

    A: Top-posters.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
     
  7. aeek

    aeek New Member

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    coming up behind the blazered schoolboys, 3 bells - no reaction, airzound3 - no reaction, so when I reached the schoolgirls I just said "BIKE".
     
  8. Geoff

    Geoff Guest

    "Dej" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >i thought flouro yellow was a visible colour to wear?:)
    > not according to the woman who drove from a sidestreet right in front of
    > me, leaving me with about .5m to brake before running into the front
    > quarter panel and then doing a 70's cop impersination sliding across the
    > bonnet (before a not so stuntman like landing on the road).
    > banged up the hip and elbow, the handlebars needed straightening (wheel
    > wasnt bent, just the stem got a bit loose)
    > And somehow, a couple of spokes on the back wheel lost all tension. The
    > wheel is still straight so im not sure how that happened.
    >
    > I had a ride to sorrento planned this wednesday too:( hopefully the hip &
    > elbow wont be too sore tomorrow though i imagine it wont feel too great..
    >
    >


    Glad to hear your'e still with us and not too badly injured.. The bonnet
    was probably a good option take cos at least you caught her attention and
    she had to stop. Had you chosen to move to the right you would have put
    yourself in the path of her wheels - not so good.

    btw. When you get your wheel fixed also get your frame checked out by your
    LBS to make sure it's still straight and free of any other invisible life
    threatening damage this incident may have caused.

    Geoff
     
  9. Geoff

    Geoff Guest

    "aeek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Dej Wrote:
    >> i thought flouro yellow was a visible colour to wear?:)
    >> not according to the woman who drove from a sidestreet right in front
    >> of me,
    >> leaving me with about .5m to brake before running into the front
    >> quarter
    >>

    >
    > they have to look at you for the colour to make a difference, and since
    > a car won't be right next to the curb they don't look there. My feeling
    > is to be seen from the sidestreet I need to be closer to the centreline
    > than I am to the curb.
    >
    >
    > --
    > aeek
    >


    I absolutely agree with you there regarding riding closer to the centreline
    or centre of your lane. It definately makes a difference to your visibility
    in city traffic if you are actually riding as part of the traffic and not
    some lower form of life that feels compelled to ride along almost in the
    gutter or right up against the doors of parked cars.

    Riding as part of the traffic works well until someone decides that a bike
    lane HAS to be installed. The upshot of this is all bikes, by law, are
    pushed toward the curb placing them at the mercy of drivers entering from
    sidestreets who have no idea what a Stop or Giveway sign is let alone the
    purpose of that big white line painted on the road in front of them is.
    Most don't even know to look for an approaching vehicle that close to the
    curb before pulling out quite simply because they don't even consider the
    possibility of a small human powered vehicle might actually be traveling in
    the designated bike lane. You guys and gals out there on your bents how do
    you stay alive???

    My opinion is place yourself in a position on the road where you are safe
    and can maximise your visibility to others (even if in some instances that
    means not using the marked bicycle lanes). When in traffic ride defensively
    and try to have a way out if things suddenly go pear shaped.

    Geoff
     
  10. Torgo

    Torgo New Member

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    We all know the fun of a driver who "cant see" and share the pain Ice it up get some nice massage done to it and have a gret rest then ride like the wind.

    On the road rules regarding Cycles
    241. Travelling in or on a wheeled recreational device or toy on a road
    (1) A person travelling in or on a wheeled recreational device or wheeled toy on a
    road—
    (a) must keep as far to the left side of the road as is practicable; and
    (b) must not travel alongside more than 1 other pedestrian or vehicle travelling on
    the road in the same direction as the person, unless the person is overtaking
    other pedestrians.
    Penalty: 1 penalty unit.
    (2) In this rule—
    road does not include a road related area, but, in subrule (1)(b), includes any shoulder
    of the road.
    Note Road related area is defined in rule 13, and shoulder is defined in rule 12.

    So as it says keep as far left as you feel safe, if thats close to the center lane at an intersection you can use this in defence...
     
  11. Geoff

    Geoff Guest

    "Torgo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Geoff Wrote:
    >> "aeek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >> >
    >> > Dej Wrote:
    >> >> i thought flouro yellow was a visible colour to wear?:)
    >> >> not according to the woman who drove from a sidestreet right in

    >> front
    >> >> of me,
    >> >> leaving me with about .5m to brake before running into the front
    >> >> quarter
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> > they have to look at you for the colour to make a difference, and

    >> since
    >> > a car won't be right next to the curb they don't look there. My

    >> feeling
    >> > is to be seen from the sidestreet I need to be closer to the

    >> centreline
    >> > than I am to the curb.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > --
    >> > aeek
    >> >

    >>
    >> I absolutely agree with you there regarding riding closer to the
    >> centreline
    >> or centre of your lane. It definately makes a difference to your
    >> visibility
    >> in city traffic if you are actually riding as part of the traffic and
    >> not
    >> some lower form of life that feels compelled to ride along almost in
    >> the
    >> gutter or right up against the doors of parked cars.
    >>
    >> Riding as part of the traffic works well until someone decides that a
    >> bike
    >> lane HAS to be installed. The upshot of this is all bikes, by law,
    >> are
    >> pushed toward the curb placing them at the mercy of drivers entering
    >> from
    >> sidestreets who have no idea what a Stop or Giveway sign is let alone
    >> the
    >> purpose of that big white line painted on the road in front of them
    >> is.
    >> Most don't even know to look for an approaching vehicle that close to
    >> the
    >> curb before pulling out quite simply because they don't even consider
    >> the
    >> possibility of a small human powered vehicle might actually be
    >> traveling in
    >> the designated bike lane. You guys and gals out there on your bents
    >> how do
    >> you stay alive???
    >>
    >> My opinion is place yourself in a position on the road where you are
    >> safe
    >> and can maximise your visibility to others (even if in some instances
    >> that
    >> means not using the marked bicycle lanes). When in traffic ride
    >> defensively
    >> and try to have a way out if things suddenly go pear shaped.
    >>
    >> Geoff

    > We all know the fun of a driver who "cant see" and share the pain Ice
    > it up get some nice massage done to it and have a gret rest then ride
    > like the wind.
    >
    > On the road rules regarding Cycles
    > 241. Travelling in or on a wheeled recreational device or toy on a
    > road
    > (1) A person travelling in or on a wheeled recreational device or
    > wheeled toy on a
    > road-
    > (a) must keep as far to the left side of the road as is practicable;
    > and
    > (b) must not travel alongside more than 1 other pedestrian or vehicle
    > travelling on
    > the road in the same direction as the person, unless the person is
    > overtaking
    > other pedestrians.
    > Penalty: 1 penalty unit.
    > (2) In this rule-
    > road does not include a road related area, but, in subrule (1)(b),
    > includes any shoulder
    > of the road.
    > Note Road related area is defined in rule 13, and shoulder is defined
    > in rule 12.
    >
    > So as it says keep as far left as you feel safe, if thats close to the
    > center lane at an intersection you can use this in defence...
    >
    >
    > --
    > Torgo
    >


    Torgo,

    I'm not sure where you are from but here in Victoria Australia our bicycles
    are considered to be vehicles NOT wheeled toys or recreational devices.

    The following are definitions of Bicycle (specific) and Vehicle (broad) as
    they defined by Victorian Legislation.

    What is a bicycle?
    Under the road rules, a bicycle is a vehicle that has one or more wheels
    that is built to be propelled by human power through a belt, chain or gears
    (whether or not it has an auxiliary motor).
    Under the road rules, pedicabs, penny farthings, scooters, tricycles and
    unicycles are all considered to be bicycles.
    Bicycles may be fitted with an auxiliary motor, provided the motor is not
    capable of generating a power output of over 200 watts.
    Wheelchairs, wheeled recreational devices, wheeled toys and any vehicle with
    an auxiliary motor capable of generating a power output of over 200 watts
    (whether or not the motor is operating) are not considered to be bicycles.


    What is a vehicle
    (1) A vehicle is a conveyance that is designed to be propelled or drawn by
    any means,
    whether or not capable of being so propelled or drawn, and includes-
    (a) a motor vehicle, trailer and tram; and
    (b) a bicycle; and
    (c) an air-cushion vehicle-
    but does not include a train.

    Source www.vicroads.vic.gov.au

    In short, where I live bikes have the same right to be on the road as any
    other vehicle and are subject to the same roadlaws. Bikes even have a few
    extra privileges that other vehicles don't. ;-)

    Geoff
     
  12. aeek

    aeek New Member

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    Wrong clause, bicycles are bicycles NOT wheeled recreational devices/toys.

    247 Riding in a bicycle lane on a road
    (1) The rider of a bicycle riding on a length of road with a bicycle
    lane designed for bicycles travelling in the same direction as
    the rider must ride in the bicycle lane unless it is impracticable
    to do so.
    Offence provision.
    Note Rule 153 defines a bicycle lane and deals with the use of bicycle
    lanes by other vehicles.
    (2) In this rule:
    road does not include a road-related area.
    Note Road-related area includes the shoulder of a road — see rule 13.

    ODD, so the bikelane is on the shoulder you DO NOT HAVE TO USE IT???
     
  13. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "aeek" <[email protected]
    > 247 Riding in a bicycle lane on a road
    > (1) The rider of a bicycle riding on a length of road with a bicycle
    > lane designed for bicycles travelling in the same direction as
    > the rider must ride in the bicycle lane unless it is impracticable
    > to do so.


    What can be considered "impracticable"? i.e. lets say I
    choose the road rather than a bikelane - can I argue that
    I felt the road was the safer option?

    What is the penalty for using the road and not a bikelane?

    hippy
     
  14. In aus.bicycle on Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:28:01 GMT
    hippy <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "aeek" <[email protected]
    >> 247 Riding in a bicycle lane on a road
    >> (1) The rider of a bicycle riding on a length of road with a bicycle
    >> lane designed for bicycles travelling in the same direction as
    >> the rider must ride in the bicycle lane unless it is impracticable
    >> to do so.

    >
    > What can be considered "impracticable"? i.e. lets say I
    > choose the road rather than a bikelane - can I argue that
    > I felt the road was the safer option?


    Going to depend on a lot of factors. Before motorcycles were exempted
    from the "keep as far left as practicable" rule, courts were very
    inconsistent as to how they viewed safety arguments.

    If the lane is blocked, or has glass on it, then it's not practical to
    ride a pushbike there. If it's just "I feel safer", then be prepared to
    have lots of stats and quotes to back that up.


    >
    > What is the penalty for using the road and not a bikelane?


    Go on, google for it. Never know what you might learn...

    Zebee
     
  15. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "Zebee Johnstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > hippy <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > "aeek" <[email protected]
    > >> 247 Riding in a bicycle lane on a road
    > >> (1) The rider of a bicycle riding on a length of road with a bicycle
    > >> lane designed for bicycles travelling in the same direction as
    > >> the rider must ride in the bicycle lane unless it is impracticable
    > >> to do so.

    > >
    > > What can be considered "impracticable"? i.e. lets say I
    > > choose the road rather than a bikelane - can I argue that
    > > I felt the road was the safer option?

    >
    > Going to depend on a lot of factors. Before motorcycles were exempted
    > from the "keep as far left as practicable" rule, courts were very
    > inconsistent as to how they viewed safety arguments.
    >
    > If the lane is blocked, or has glass on it, then it's not practical to
    > ride a pushbike there. If it's just "I feel safer", then be prepared to
    > have lots of stats and quotes to back that up.


    How am I going to know about the glass unless I
    ride in it? If I have to obey road rules like cars - why
    am I then forced into a bikelane?

    > > What is the penalty for using the road and not a bikelane?

    >
    > Go on, google for it. Never know what you might learn...


    Nah, my machine has reached its limit for open browser windows.. ;-)
    Besides, all those posters quoting the rules should already have the
    ..pdf's sitting on their computers somewhere.. :p

    1 penalty unit = $110 !! $110 for riding on the road and
    not a bike lane?! How is that the same level of offence as
    speeding? Time to think of some excuses..

    hippy
     
  16. Torgo

    Torgo New Member

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    My mistake, coppied the wrong one sorry.
     
  17. On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:03:33 GMT, "hippy" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >"Zebee Johnstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]


    <snip>

    >> If the lane is blocked, or has glass on it, then it's not practical to
    >> ride a pushbike there. If it's just "I feel safer", then be prepared to
    >> have lots of stats and quotes to back that up.

    >
    >How am I going to know about the glass unless I
    >ride in it? If I have to obey road rules like cars - why
    >am I then forced into a bikelane?


    I never use the bike lane on the first half of Kerferd Rd heading
    towards the beach. There are remnants of bluestone kerbs every now and
    then that are not safe to ride across on a road bike. The angle-parked
    cars on the inside back out unpredictably. I've been punctured by
    glass shards every time I've used it. In my judgment, it's not safe.

    >> > What is the penalty for using the road and not a bikelane?

    >>
    >> Go on, google for it. Never know what you might learn...

    >
    >Nah, my machine has reached its limit for open browser windows.. ;-)
    >Besides, all those posters quoting the rules should already have the
    >.pdf's sitting on their computers somewhere.. :p


    Get yourself Firefox.

    >1 penalty unit = $110 !! $110 for riding on the road and
    >not a bike lane?! How is that the same level of offence as
    >speeding? Time to think of some excuses..


    See above. Plus, I was trying to keep out of the way of the
    pedestrians/open car doors/double parkers that make it unsafe.



    --
    Regards.
    Richard.
     
  18. Meeba

    Meeba New Member

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    Note Rule 153 defines a bicycle lane and deals with the use of bicycle
    lanes by other vehicles.
    Hi Aeek do you know if motor bikes are allowed to zoom up bike lanes to get to front of idle traffic?
    lve had a mighty fright with m/bikes weaving in +out of bike lanes :eek:
     
  19. aeek

    aeek New Member

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    any vehicle can use 50m of a bike lane (or 100m of a bus lane) for the purposes of turning left, but otherwise no, motorbikes aren't supposed to and they don't get the overtake on the left rule either.
     
  20. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    apparenly that has just been changed to 100m in bike lanes too
     
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