Grand Tours

[lwedge]

This year was pretty messy for the Pro Tour. The directors of Grand Tours will meet prior to the meetings in Salzburg to determine plans to possibly surcease their relationship with the UCI\Pro Tour if their terms are not met.

Tuff talk, but haven't we heard this before ?

Sorry! This is in English.. I did the best I could to translate.

http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/10867.0.html


lw

 

[ishiwata]

It's been a good year for people who got second place.

 

[Bro Deal]

It's been a good year for people who got second place.

Good one. Too bad that does not extend past the overall G.C. of GTs. Zabel would be ecstatic.

I am convinced that the GTs need to split from the UCI. McQuaid's latest antics make me believe that there is no other way to clean up the sport.

 

[helmutRoole2]

Good one. Too bad that does not extend past the overall G.C. of GTs. Zabel would be ecstatic.

I am convinced that the GTs need to split from the UCI. McQuaid's latest antics make me believe that there is no other way to clean up the sport.

One organization needs to buy the other out. The PT can't work without the GTs and the GTs can't work without the PT. It's a shame because I've really enjoyed both this year. Although, I wish they'd take the GTs points out of the PT overall or make the points worth the same as winning a classic.

 

[Powerful Pete]

One organization needs to buy the other out. The PT can't work without the GTs and the GTs can't work without the PT. It's a shame because I've really enjoyed both this year. Although, I wish they'd take the GTs points out of the PT overall or make the points worth the same as winning a classic.

Why? The GTs can continue to do just fine without the ProTour. The French, Italian and Spanish sponsors (and for the TdF just about any sponsor) are still focused on the fact that most people in their country follow the national tour, and it gets hours of TV time... classics are much more for the 'hard core' fan even over here...

 

[DiabloScott]

Why? The GTs can continue to do just fine without the ProTour. The French, Italian and Spanish sponsors (and for the TdF just about any sponsor) are still focused on the fact that most people in their country follow the national tour, and it gets hours of TV time... classics are much more for the 'hard core' fan even over here...

You guys still don't get it - the Pro Tour is all about sponsorship money. Before the PT there were big companies throwing a lot of money at their teams and then they'd find out their teams weren't included in their own country's GT. With the PT they have assurance that their team will be in every big race of the season. And the smaller teams can get by on smaller budgets so that brought in sponsorship from smaller companies.

Sponsors want GUARANTEES that their money will get their company names on TV and newspapers. Take away the PT and you take away the guarantees and you 'll see the money dry up and you'll see a lot of teams fold and the best riders taking up sports that pay better.

 

[helmutRoole2]

Why? The GTs can continue to do just fine without the ProTour. The French, Italian and Spanish sponsors (and for the TdF just about any sponsor) are still focused on the fact that most people in their country follow the national tour, and it gets hours of TV time... classics are much more for the 'hard core' fan even over here...

Like Diablo said, if they're not working in concert then the money is effectively split. If the UCI decides not include the GTs in their PT, that means no PT teams would compete in the GTs. I wouldn't watch that.

 

[Powerful Pete]

Baloney - an Italian sponsored team (or Spanish, or French) would participate in their national GT no matter what. The Pro Tour is now making this problematic - smaller Italian teams with national level sponsors could give a flying fig if the Spanish public see 'em, they want exposure in the Giro. And no one cares if some East Mongolian pro tour team brings their B team to the Giro...

I agree about the sponsorship, but there are not that many very big sponsors interested in cycling right now...

 

[cyclingheroes]

This year was pretty messy for the Pro Tour. The directors of Grand Tours will meet prior to the meetings in Salzburg to determine plans to possibly surcease their relationship with the UCI\Pro Tour if their terms are not met.

Tuff talk, but haven't we heard this before ?

Sorry! This is in English.. I did the best I could to translate.

http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/10867.0.html


lw

Yep the conflict is far from solved.... I think the conflict actually was there the whole year and somehowe the "incidents" that people spoke about since last years Vuelta and an incident with probs 1999 are related with this conflict......

 

[helmutRoole2]

Baloney - an Italian sponsored team (or Spanish, or French) would participate in their national GT no matter what. The Pro Tour is now making this problematic - smaller Italian teams with national level sponsors could give a flying fig if the Spanish public see 'em, they want exposure in the Giro. And no one cares if some East Mongolian pro tour team brings their B team to the Giro...

I agree about the sponsorship, but there are not that many very big sponsors interested in cycling right now...

Hooie!

Okay, not hooie, but after your baloney, I felt the need to follow up.

Anyway, I see your point, but realize, those Italian teams would have to make the choice between the Giro and the rest of the Pro Tour calendar. So again, it gets split. The exposure is cut and so the price a team can charge for sponsorship drops.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Hooie!

Okay, not hooie, but after your baloney, I felt the need to follow up.

Anyway, I see your point, but realize, those Italian teams would have to make the choice between the Giro and the rest of the Pro Tour calendar. So again, it gets split. The exposure is cut and so the price a team can charge for sponsorship drops.

About 70% of the money which is coming in from tv coverage is going to ASO (Tour de France). If a team is riding the Tour the sponsor will be statisfied. If they don't and Italy or Spain is an important market for the sponsor it's ok if they start at the Vuelta and/or the Giro. But yes in the end it would be better to have an international serie with all the big races in it. I don't know if this has to be the Pro-Tour under the current rules....

 

[lwedge]

- smaller Italian teams with national level sponsors could give a flying fig if the Spanish public see 'em, they want exposure in the Giro. And no one cares if some East Mongolian pro tour team brings their B team to the Giro......

New proposal would allow more wildcards, local sponsored teams.

Yep the conflict is far from solved.... I think the conflict actually was there the whole year and somehowe the "incidents" that people spoke about since last years Vuelta and an incident with probs 1999 are related with this conflict......

I find it interesting that the GT organizers are floating the idea of a Grand Tours League. I am not sure that 3 races per year would support the idea but who knows.

lw

 

[wolfix]

About 70% of the money which is coming in from tv coverage is going to ASO (Tour de France). If a team is riding the Tour the sponsor will be statisfied. If they don't and Italy or Spain is an important market for the sponsor it's ok if they start at the Vuelta and/or the Giro. But yes in the end it would be better to have an international serie with all the big races in it. I don't know if this has to be the Pro-Tour under the current rules....

Agreed.......... A format that kept the international cycling community united and the sponsors knowing their sponsorship is going to get national attention at the national tours is the ideal program. Procycling needs the sponsors. And the problems the past year is going to make that more difficult.

I would be in favor of a program that help promote the "Classics" and one day races. The Tours are great, and they are very fan and media friendly, but the Classics have so much to offer.

I like much of the ProTour set-up. It forces teams like Discovery [Lance era}to race more then just the TDF.

I have to ask ...... In Europe is there a lower level of racing that is just a step down from what we see the ProTour offer? Is it organized at the national level or does it have some international crossover?

 

[cyclingheroes]

There is the pro Europe continental serie and the problem for these races (some are really old semi-classics with great tradition) is that since the Pro-Tour started their sponsors are walking away to the Pro-Tour races since they have more tv coverage (Eurosport is broadcasting most Pro-Tour races in Europe). More and more races are dissapearing especially in Belgium and Spain.

Agreed.......... A format that kept the international cycling community united and the sponsors knowing their sponsorship is going to get national attention at the national tours is the ideal program. Procycling needs the sponsors. And the problems the past year is going to make that more difficult.

I would be in favor of a program that help promote the "Classics" and one day races. The Tours are great, and they are very fan and media friendly, but the Classics have so much to offer.

I like much of the ProTour set-up. It forces teams like Discovery [Lance era}to race more then just the TDF.

I have to ask ...... In Europe is there a lower level of racing that is just a step down from what we see the ProTour offer? Is it organized at the national level or does it have some international crossover?

 

[Bro Deal]

It looks like the GT ProTour/UCI split is about to get a lot uglier. Money has just entered the equation. It should provide lots of entertainment during the off season.

UCI wants ProTour TV rights

By Jeff Jones

The UCI is prepared to take firm steps to force the organisers of the three grand tours to become part of the ProTour, thereby gaining more of the valuable TV rights that have caused such a big division between the two most powerful groups in cycling. The UCI's ProTour Council met on Thursday in Salzburg, and reiterated its view that the ProTour is the only way forward for cycling, as well as attacking Tour de France organiser ASO over its stance on rights.

Rest of article: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/sep06/sep23news

 

[cyclingheroes]

....Money has just entered the equation....

The conflict was always about the TV rights, the new element is that the UCI now comes forward with it.

It was always about money...