Grease on BB taper?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Mr Bonkers, Apr 18, 2003.

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  1. Mr Bonkers

    Mr Bonkers Guest

    Hi,

    I am sorry if this has been asked a million times already (I did search...)... Should you grease the
    BB taper before you fit cranks?

    I have always left mine grease-free on all my bikes untill I was unable to stop some creaking on my
    jump bike no matter how much I tightened the crank bolt. After greasing, there is no noise at all.

    Thanks, Rob
     
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  2. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

  3. There are as many who say grease it as their are who say it will hasten your cranks trip on the
    road to hell.

    Personally, I'm a part of the grease school. As a machinist, I know what can happen when two
    dissimilar metals stay in contact to long, especially when exposed to the weather.

    I light smearing is all you need.

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  4. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Chris Corner writes:

    > Personally, I'm a part of the grease school. As a machinist, I know what can happen when two
    > dissimilar metals stay in contact to long, especially when exposed to the weather.

    Grease only facilitates a consistent press fit on installation. In use, all grease is displaced from
    the contact interface through fretting motions. As is explained in the FAQ, aluminum oxide of the
    crank erodes the flat faces of the steel spindle by these elastic motions.

    If you want to visualize this you can consider metal parts made of rubber of hardness relative
    to the actual parts and then load them. This is what occurs, although in microscopic dimensions
    in reality.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  5. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Mr Bonkers" <[email protected]@memran.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am sorry if this has been asked a million times already (I did search...)... Should you grease
    > the BB taper before you fit cranks?
    >
    > I have always left mine grease-free on all my bikes untill I was unable to stop some creaking on
    > my jump bike no matter how much I tightened the
    crank
    > bolt. After greasing, there is no noise at all.

    Many contributors here differ on that point who are otherwise of similar mind on mechanical matters.
    I noted a few months ago (on the last iteration of this) that among quality shops who do and don't
    lube tapers, there are not large numbers cranks falling off nor of cranks splitting.

    So we have just agreed to disagree about this. No one is going to change their opinion from anything
    written here.

    Persoanlly, I lube 'em. Hell, I lube _everything_.
    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  6. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    > Many contributors here differ on that point who are otherwise of similar mind on mechanical
    > matters. I noted a few months ago (on the last
    iteration
    > of this) that among quality shops who do and don't lube tapers, there are not large numbers cranks
    > falling off nor of cranks splitting.
    >
    > So we have just agreed to disagree about this. No one is going to change their opinion from
    > anything written here.
    >
    > Persoanlly, I lube 'em. Hell, I lube _everything_.
    >
    >
    Isn't it amazing that otherwise rational people get so bent out of shape over stuff like this?
    Grease/not grease, thin spokes/thick spokes, etc. all seem to be divisive points.

    IIRC, I've done spindles both ways with no real appreciable difference in performance. If you
    wanna lube it, go for it. If not, then don't. Just don't get bent out of shape if I don't agree
    with you about it.

    Mike
     
  7. Gregg

    Gregg Guest

    why the hostility? Did someone piss in your corn flakes this morning? You need to spend more time
    riding and less time reading these newsgroups.

    such bitterness. It's a shame

    "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Many contributors here differ on that point who are otherwise of similar mind on mechanical
    > > matters. I noted a few months ago (on the last
    > iteration
    > > of this) that among quality shops who do and don't lube tapers, there
    are
    > > not large numbers cranks falling off nor of cranks splitting.
    > >
    > > So we have just agreed to disagree about this. No one is going to
    change
    > > their opinion from anything written here.
    > >
    > > Persoanlly, I lube 'em. Hell, I lube _everything_.
    > >
    > >
    > Isn't it amazing that otherwise rational people get so bent out of shape over stuff like this?
    > Grease/not grease, thin spokes/thick spokes, etc.
    all
    > seem to be divisive points.
    >
    > IIRC, I've done spindles both ways with no real appreciable difference in performance. If you
    > wanna lube it, go for it. If not, then don't. Just don't get bent out of shape if I don't agree
    > with you about it.
    >
    > Mike
    >
     
  8. Jim Hultman

    Jim Hultman Guest

    Years ago, I was sternly instructed to carefully remove any hint of grease from the bb spindle ends
    & matching faces of the cranks. Aside from the fact that I never get creaky cranks, it's become such
    a ritual that I'm sure I'd feel quite distressed if I didn't do it... Jim Hultman "A Muzi"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    : "Mr Bonkers" <[email protected]@memran.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
    : news:[email protected]...
    : > I am sorry if this has been asked a million times already (I did search...)... Should you grease
    : > the BB taper before you fit cranks?
    : >
    : > I have always left mine grease-free on all my bikes untill I was unable
    to
    : > stop some creaking on my jump bike no matter how much I tightened the
    : crank
    : > bolt. After greasing, there is no noise at all.
    :
    :
    : Many contributors here differ on that point who are otherwise of similar mind on mechanical
    : matters. I noted a few months ago (on the last
    iteration
    : of this) that among quality shops who do and don't lube tapers, there are not large numbers cranks
    : falling off nor of cranks splitting.
    :
    : So we have just agreed to disagree about this. No one is going to change their opinion from
    : anything written here.
    :
    : Persoanlly, I lube 'em. Hell, I lube _everything_.
    : --
    : Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
    :
    :
     
  9. > You need to spend more time riding and less time reading these newsgroups.

    cough cough

    perhaps you should heed your own advice.

    Small Black Dog
     
  10. Andy Dingley

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 01:55:46 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

    >Grease only facilitates a consistent press fit on installation.

    I use copper grease. My reasoning is not for the contact areas, but to reduce electrolytic corrosion
    in any areas where the contact isn't perfect. Large areas of steel/aluminium interface with a narrow
    gap and plenty of water aren't ideal.
     
  11. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Andy Dingley writes:

    >> Grease only facilitates a consistent press fit on installation.

    > I use copper grease. My reasoning is not for the contact areas, but to reduce electrolytic
    > corrosion in any areas where the contact isn't perfect. Large areas of steel/aluminium interface
    > with a narrow gap and plenty of water aren't ideal.

    Could you explain why you believe this has any advantage and how this grease remains in the
    interface? What is it in "copper grease" that makes this occur?

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  12. G.Daniels

    G.Daniels Guest

    why do some recommend NOT using neverseize on tapered spindles?
     
  13. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

  14. Andy Dingley

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:54:40 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

    >> I use copper grease. My reasoning is not for the contact areas, but to reduce electrolytic
    >> corrosion in any areas where the contact isn't perfect. Large areas of steel/aluminium interface
    >> with a narrow gap and plenty of water aren't ideal.
    >
    >Could you explain why you believe this has any advantage and

    It avoids the formation of electrolytic corrosion cells. Mainly by simply filling up the gap and
    excluding moisture.

    >how this grease remains in the interface?

    Because I put it there, and there's nothing to move it away. I'm talking about ancient old sheds of
    bikes here, where the tapers are less pristine than your boxfresh Campag might be. They're not going
    to have an accurate mating surface over the whole taper.

    > What is it in "copper grease" that makes this occur?

    Depends on your brand. Obviously Duralac (a chromate loaded varnish) is the proper stuff to use for
    a steel/aluminium fit like this, but that's messy. The main function of copper grease is twofold;
    it's a stable grease that doesn't migrate, and it's conveniently to hand at all times. The other
    functions, like heat resistance, are a little superfluos here, but not detrimental. Assuming any
    cathodic protection would depend on the alloys you have around, and that's always complex on bikes
    with their unobtainium waterbottle cages.
     
  15. Pete-<< Should you grease the BB taper before you fit cranks?

    Works for me.

    I hold the grease tub up and show it to the tapers, to make jobst happy, then I install dry...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  16. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Andy Dingley writes:

    >>> I use copper grease. My reasoning is not for the contact areas, but to reduce electrolytic
    >>> corrosion in any areas where the contact isn't perfect. Large areas of steel/aluminium interface
    >>> with a narrow gap and plenty of water aren't ideal.

    >> Could you explain why you believe this has any advantage

    > It avoids the formation of electrolytic corrosion cells. Mainly by simply filling up the gap and
    > excluding moisture.

    How is this grease able to do this more so than other greases, is the question. To what "gap" are
    you referring anyway. There is no gap in a press fit.

    >> and how this grease remains in the interface?

    > Because I put it there, and there's nothing to move it away. I'm talking about ancient old sheds
    > of bikes here, where the tapers are less pristine than your boxfresh Campag might be. They're not
    > going to have an accurate mating surface over the whole taper.

    You better believe that there is contact over the mating surfaces, considering the elastic nature of
    the metals and the softness of aluminum. Proof of this contact is that the surfaces run "dry" on any
    crank after use and the lack of grease in this interface. After use a crank spindle has rouge on its
    surface that bears witness to high pressure fretting.

    >> What is it in "copper grease" that makes this occur?

    > Depends on your brand. Obviously Duralac (a chromate loaded varnish) is the proper stuff to use
    > for a steel/aluminium fit like this, but that's messy. The main function of copper grease is
    > twofold; it's a stable grease that doesn't migrate, and it's conveniently to hand at all times.
    > The other functions, like heat resistance, are a little superfluos here, but not detrimental.
    > Assuming any cathodic protection would depend on the alloys you have around, and that's always
    > complex on bikes with their unobtainium waterbottle cages.

    That is a nice compendium of buzz-words but you might show some reason for anyone to believe in
    these superior qualities of your choice of grease. I see no evidence that any of this has an effect
    on the spindle and crank. Do you have any comparative tests to see whether your grease is better
    than any other or no grease at all, as is often advised? Credibility is hard to come by, especially
    if you make claims and then dodge and weave when asked about them.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  17. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >
    > On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:54:40 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > > What is it in "copper grease" that makes this occur?
    >
    > If I'm not misremembering, "copper grease" is an across-the-pond term for marine antiseize grease
    > with finely-powdered copper in it.

    In marine applications, the copper is to prevent marine growth (Cu is toxic to most marine
    organisms).

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  18. David Kerber wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >
    >>On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:54:40 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>What is it in "copper grease" that makes this occur?
    >>
    >>If I'm not misremembering, "copper grease" is an across-the-pond term for marine antiseize grease
    >>with finely-powdered copper in it.
    >
    >
    > In marine applications, the copper is to prevent marine growth (Cu is toxic to most marine
    > organisms).

    ??????

    Tell that to all the marine organisms that rely on copper in the oxygen transport medium in their
    blood. Nutritionists often cite shellfish as a food source high in copper.

    Mark McMaster [email protected]
     
  19. Archer

    Archer Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > David Kerber wrote:
    > > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > >
    > >>On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:54:40 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>What is it in "copper grease" that makes this occur?
    > >>
    > >>If I'm not misremembering, "copper grease" is an across-the-pond term for marine antiseize
    > >>grease with finely-powdered copper in it.
    > >
    > >
    > > In marine applications, the copper is to prevent marine growth (Cu is toxic to most marine
    > > organisms).
    >
    > ??????
    >
    > Tell that to all the marine organisms that rely on copper in the oxygen transport medium in their
    > blood. Nutritionists often cite shellfish as a food source high in copper.

    The British used to put sheet copper on the bottom of their sailing ships to prevent marine growth
    from fouling the hulls and slowing them down. In modern times, many states' environmental regulators
    have outlawed copper-based anti-fouling paints because it kills marine life in the docking areas.

    --
    David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
    it's morning".

    Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.
     
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