Greasing new Campy hubs?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Msctrose, Feb 10, 2003.

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  1. Msctrose

    Msctrose Guest

    I have a set of Campy Chorus hubs, 2002, with about ten thousand miles on them. They are due for
    lubing. I read the little pamphlet that came with them, and it seems pretty straightforward. One
    question for our resident Campy experts: Do you really have to take off the freehub to grease the
    bearings on the rear hub right side, or is it possible to do it without removing the freehub?

    I remember reading somewhere that the hubs take almost no time to overhaul, but taking the freehub
    seems like it would be a bit more involved then that. Thanks in advance Mark howtostretch.com
     
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  2. On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:53:23 -0500, MSCTROSE wrote:

    > I have a set of Campy Chorus hubs, 2002, with about ten thousand miles on them. They are due for
    > lubing. I read the little pamphlet that came with them, and it seems pretty straightforward. One
    > question for our resident Campy experts: Do you really have to take off the freehub to grease the
    > bearings on the rear hub right side, or is it possible to do it without removing the freehub?

    You have to take off the freehub. But, don't worry, it is not like taking apart a freewheel. The
    bearings are way up inside the fat part of the shell, behind the pawls, but the pawls stay where
    they are supposed to be pretty well.

    Some hubs (Record) now have a pawl/spring setup that uses a single threadlike spring for all three
    pawls, simultaneously tensioning them and holding them on the freehub. The other method, which
    Chorus probably still has, has three little coil springs tensioning the pawls, so they might fall
    out. A bit of grease holds them in place.

    Campy provides a little clamp to allow you to easily re-insert the freehub when you are done, but
    I didn't get it (second hand hubs) and never needed it. Twist the freehub as you press down on the
    pawls and they will slide in.

    The bearings are different sizes. On the older design, left side is the usual 9 1/4" balls, the
    right side is, I think, 3/16 or maybe 7/32. The new Record design uses very small balls, maybe 5/32
    or at most 3/16 (Peter knows from memory, I don't). The Record hubs also have a necessary bearling
    cage. Interesting design, but my REcord hub had had some abuse, and the bearing cups (nonreplacable)
    suffered. I think that was exacerbated by the very small bearings. Larger ones would seem to be more
    durable. On the other hand, the Record hub is very easy to work on, and very light.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. -- _`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  3. "David L. Johnson" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]>> wrote:

    > You have to take off the freehub. But, don't worry, it is not like taking apart a freewheel. The
    > bearings are way up inside the fat part of the shell, behind the pawls, but the pawls stay where
    > they are supposed to be pretty well.

    > Some hubs (Record) now have a pawl/spring setup that uses a single threadlike spring for all three
    > pawls, simultaneously tensioning them and holding them on the freehub. The other method, which
    > Chorus probably still has ... <snip>

    2002 Chorus is just like Record in this regard, a single spring which holds all three pawls in
    place. AFAIK Centaur is also no different. As I understand it, the differences between the three
    hubs are the quick releases, grease ports and some titanium on Record and a different kind of
    adjustment mechanism on Centaur hubs. The overall design and the bearings are identical.

    > Campy provides a little clamp to allow you to easily re-insert the freehub when you are done, but
    > I didn't get it (second hand hubs) and never needed it. Twist the freehub as you press down on the
    > pawls and they will slide in.

    I bought pair of new Chorus hubs last year, and didn't receive the clamp. There's really no need for
    it either, as I had absolutely no trouble putting the hub back together, even if it was my first
    time doing so. There's enough play between the freehub body and the hub shell that you can twist the
    pawls in one by one and then slide in the whole freehub body.

    -as
     
  4. MSC-<< One question for our resident Campy experts: Do you really have to take off the freehub to
    grease the bearings on the rear hub right side,

    Take the entire axle out with the freehub attached, remove all the fixing hardware from the left
    side...Remove the little crud seal and you will see the bearings, 5/32 in a cage.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  5. David-<< Some hubs (Record) now have a pawl/spring setup that uses a single threadlike spring for
    all three pawls, simultaneously tensioning them and holding them on the freehub

    Record, Chorus and Centaur/Daytona hubs are all the same.

    << The other method, which Chorus probably still has, has three little coil springs tensioning the
    pawls, so they might fall out.

    See above, they all have the spring pawl holder...

    << The bearings are different sizes. On the older design, left side is the usual 9 1/4" balls, the
    right side is, I think, 3/16 or maybe 7/32.

    10-7/32 balls underneath the freehub on older hubs-1997-ish.

    << The new Record design uses very small balls, maybe 5/32 or at most 3/16

    5/32 on both sides of the rear AND the front-same balls, cones...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (6)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  6. Appkiller

    Appkiller Guest

    > You have to take off the freehub. But, don't worry, it is not like taking apart a freewheel. The
    > bearings are way up inside the fat part of the shell, behind the pawls, but the pawls stay where
    > they are supposed to be pretty well.
    >
    > Some hubs (Record) now have a pawl/spring setup that uses a single threadlike spring for all three
    > pawls, simultaneously tensioning them and holding them on the freehub. The other method, which
    > Chorus probably still has, has three little coil springs tensioning the pawls, so they might fall
    > out. A bit of grease holds them in place.

    Record, Chorus, Centaur/Daytona 10s = same mechanicals, different materials

    >
    > Campy provides a little clamp to allow you to easily re-insert the freehub when you are done, but
    > I didn't get it (second hand hubs) and never needed it. Twist the freehub as you press down on the
    > pawls and they will slide in.

    Not really - I have damaged the spring trying to do this. Wrap a piece of thin cord (I use cotton
    twine) around the pawls and slide the freehub in, unwrapping as the pawls are seated.
    >
    > The bearings are different sizes. On the older design, left side is the usual 9 1/4" balls, the
    > right side is, I think, 3/16 or maybe 7/32. The new Record design uses very small balls, maybe
    > 5/32 or at most 3/16 (Peter knows from memory, I don't). The Record hubs also have a necessary
    > bearling cage.

    Bearings are all the same size, all the way around.

    >Interesting design, but my REcord hub had had some abuse, and the bearing cups (nonreplacable)
    >suffered.

    Bearing cups are replaceable.

    >I think that was exacerbated by the very small bearings. Larger ones would seem to be more durable.
    >On the other hand, the Record hub is very easy to work on, and very light.

    VERY easy to work on.

    App
     
  7. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "David L. Johnson >" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:53:23 -0500, MSCTROSE wrote:
    >
    > > I have a set of Campy Chorus hubs, 2002, with about ten thousand miles on them. They are due for
    > > lubing. I read the little pamphlet that came with them, and it seems pretty straightforward. One
    > > question for our resident Campy experts: Do you really have to take off the freehub to grease
    > > the bearings on the rear hub right side, or is it possible to do it without removing the
    > > freehub?
    >
    > You have to take off the freehub. But, don't worry, it is not like taking apart a freewheel. The
    > bearings are way up inside the fat part of the shell, behind the pawls, but the pawls stay where
    > they are supposed to be pretty well.
    >
    > Some hubs (Record) now have a pawl/spring setup that uses a single
    threadlike
    > spring for all three pawls, simultaneously tensioning them and holding them on the freehub. The
    > other method, which Chorus probably still has, has three little coil springs tensioning the pawls,
    > so they might fall out. A bit of grease holds them in place.
    >
    > Campy provides a little clamp to allow you to easily re-insert the freehub when you are done, but
    > I didn't get it (second hand hubs) and never needed it. Twist the freehub as you press down on the
    > pawls and they will slide in.
    >
    > The bearings are different sizes. On the older design, left side is the usual 9 1/4" balls, the
    > right side is, I think, 3/16 or maybe 7/32. The new Record design uses very small balls, maybe
    > 5/32 or at most 3/16 (Peter knows from memory, I don't). The Record hubs also have a necessary
    > bearling cage.

    The carrier isn't necessary as far as I know. It's like all bearing "cages".

    >Interesting design, but my REcord hub had had some abuse, and the bearing cups (nonreplacable)
    >suffered. I think that was exacerbated by the very small bearings. Larger ones would seem to be
    >more durable.

    I'd like to understand how this might be the case. I figure more smaller bearings would cause less
    wear. Also, as I understand, the contact patch size doesn't change with bearing size so larger
    bearings wouldn't prevent race wear. You must've had them improperly adjusted.

    > On the other hand, the Record hub is very easy to work on, and very light

    Yes.

    Robin Hubert
     
  8. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Antti Salonen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "David L. Johnson" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]>> wrote:
    >
    > > You have to take off the freehub. But, don't worry, it is not like taking apart a freewheel. The
    > > bearings are way up inside the fat part
    of
    > > the shell, behind the pawls, but the pawls stay where they are supposed to be pretty well.
    >
    > > Some hubs (Record) now have a pawl/spring setup that uses a single
    threadlike
    > > spring for all three pawls, simultaneously tensioning them and holding them on the freehub. The
    > > other method, which Chorus probably still has ... <snip>
    >
    > 2002 Chorus is just like Record in this regard, a single spring which holds all three pawls in
    > place. AFAIK Centaur is also no different. As I understand it, the differences between the three
    > hubs are the quick releases, grease ports and some titanium on Record and a different kind of
    > adjustment mechanism on Centaur hubs. The overall design and the bearings are identical.
    >
    > > Campy provides a little clamp to allow you to easily re-insert the freehub when you are done,
    > > but I didn't get it (second hand hubs) and never needed it. Twist the freehub as you press down
    > > on the pawls and they will slide in.
    >
    > I bought pair of new Chorus hubs last year, and didn't receive the clamp. There's really no need
    > for it either, as I had absolutely no trouble putting the hub back together, even if it was my
    > first time doing so. There's enough play between the freehub body and the hub shell that you can
    > twist the pawls in one by one and then slide in the whole freehub body.
    >

    That "clamp" is for the old style hubs to keep the pqwls in place while reassembling the hub.

    Robin Hubert
     
  9. On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:05:11 -0500, Robin Hubert wrote:

    >>Interesting design, but my REcord hub had had some abuse, and the bearing cups (nonreplacable)
    >>suffered. I think that was exacerbated by the very small bearings. Larger ones would seem to be
    >>more durable.
    >
    > I'd like to understand how this might be the case. I figure more smaller bearings would cause less
    > wear. Also, as I understand, the contact patch size doesn't change with bearing size so larger
    > bearings wouldn't prevent race wear. You must've had them improperly adjusted.

    Yeah, well, happened before I got the hub. Had clearly been abused.

    I guess my belief that larger bearings are better goes back to the old days, when parts that clearly
    had the most stress, bottom brackets and rear hubs, had the largest bearings. Also, better
    components came with larger bearings, such as Campy headsets, which had larger bearings than anyone
    else, and also were (in the day) better than anyone else. Same went for all Campy parts.

    Certainly if you take it to extremes, a very small bearing will not last long at all, no matter how
    many their are. The size of the contact patch size/ball to be proportional to the square of the ball
    radius, and number of balls of course proportional to the radius itself. If you shrink the number of
    balls by 1/2, then you double the number of balls, but shrink their surface area by a factor of 4,
    leaving half as much total surface area, and half as much contact area.

    I think this is exacerbated by the fact that not all balls are being stressed evenly under load.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass. _`\(,_ | What are you on?"
    --Lance Armstrong (_)/ (_) |
     
  10. On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:43:20 -0500, Appkiller wrote:

    > Bearing cups are replaceable.

    Really? Peter indicated otherwise.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | "Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The _`\(,_ | common welfare was my
    business; charity, mercy, forbearance, (_)/ (_) | and benevolence, were, all, my business. The
    dealings of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
    --Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"
     
  11. lisated

    lisated Guest

    "David L. Johnson" wrote:

    > Certainly if you take it to extremes, a very small bearing will not last long at all, no matter
    > how many their[sic] are. The size of the contact patch size/ball to be proportional to the square
    > of the ball radius, and number of balls of course proportional to the radius itself. If you shrink
    > the number of balls by 1/2, then you double the number of balls, but shrink their surface area by
    > a factor of 4, leaving half as much total surface area, and half as much contact area.

    I don't think this is correct, because the points of contact of the balls to the race are, in
    theory, points rather than areas. Of course, no material is infinitely strong so that the points of
    contact become small areas, the areas depending on the load.

    IIRC this situation is known as Hertzian contact, but I'd appreciate hearing from others who are
    more knowledgeable about these matters.

    --
    Ted Bennett Portland OR
     
  12. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "MSCTROSE" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I have a set of Campy Chorus hubs, 2002, with about ten thousand miles on them. They are due for
    > lubing. I read the little pamphlet that came with them, and it seems pretty straightforward. One
    > question for our resident
    Campy
    > experts: Do you really have to take off the freehub to grease the bearings on the
    rear
    > hub right side, or is it possible to do it without removing the freehub?
    >
    > I remember reading somewhere that the hubs take almost no time to
    overhaul, but
    > taking the freehub seems like it would be a bit more involved then that.

    When you drop the axle, the freehub body comes with it. Not really the hassle you might imagine - it
    isn't a freewheel after all!

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  13. Msctrose

    Msctrose Guest

    Thanks to all who replied, with all your input I will regrease the hubs as planned \

    cheers Mark howtostretch.com
     
  14. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    "David L. Johnson >" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:43:20 -0500, Appkiller wrote:
    >
    > > Bearing cups are replaceable.
    >
    > Really?

    Yes they are - in current Centaur, Chorus & Record hubs. Part number HB-RE124. Must admit, I don't
    know how you get them out though (not that I've tried hard, no need). Seem to be firmly pressed in.

    See: http://www.campagnolo.com/pdf/spares03_B.pdf - page 11

    ~PB
     
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