Great day for me, and not bad for RBR

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by TritonRider, Aug 2, 2004.

  1. TritonRider

    TritonRider Guest

    Tags:


  2. TritonRider wrote:

    > http://www.velonews.com/race/dom/articles/6723.0.html
    > "Lieswyn and Bessette take Toona titles"
    > Not a bad week for rbr folks. I'd doubt we could drag Lyne and Tim in though.
    > Bill C



    This _should_ stop some tongues a-waggin', but not here.
     
  3. Sierraman

    Sierraman Guest

    "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > http://www.velonews.com/race/dom/articles/6723.0.html
    > "Lieswyn and Bessette take Toona titles"
    > Not a bad week for rbr folks. I'd doubt we could drag Lyne and Tim in

    though.
    > Bill C


    Yeah, I have some great photos but can't share. Anyway Jeanson seems to be
    growing up. Her facials features have changed some. Bessette is having a
    great year. She should be on an incredible high going into the games. Lynn G
    was racing well and I love the yellow fingernails. She must of been watching
    some old videos of LZ.

    B-
     
  4. M Man

    M Man Guest

    [email protected] (TritonRider) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > http://www.velonews.com/race/dom/articles/6723.0.html
    > "Lieswyn and Bessette take Toona titles"
    > Not a bad week for rbr folks. I'd doubt we could drag Lyne and Tim in though.
    > Bill C


    The following was in an article about the Tour de Toona on bike.com:

    (At the end I have some questions)

    --------------------

    The major driving force behind what many call the most promising stage
    race in the country is state representative Rick Geist (R- Altoona).

    In the first few Tours de Toona, editorials in the local paper
    criticized Geist for shortchanging the women of equal racing time and
    money compared to the men. Every since, Geist has made a pledge to
    give women the same 'money for miles' as the pro men, making Toona -
    as racers refer to it - a favorite for women in an NRC calendar
    otherwise dominated by crits and one-day events.

    After the race at the traditional race dinner which took place at a
    Hoss restaurant (the chain is also a sponsor of the Martinsburg
    stage), Geist revealed a vision for the 2005 women's race that would
    expand it to 10 days as well as acquire a UCI rating. Plans to add
    stages east towards Hershey, Pennsylvania, are also in the works. This
    year, Hershey was a new sponsor to the International Tour de Toona,
    using the race to springboard a healthy version of its chocolate with
    a 1g-of-sugar energy bar that hardly tastes any different than the one
    with 10 times as much sugar.

    Previous attempts to make Toona a UCI event have failed because two of
    the seven stages exceed 140 km, the maximum distance stipulated by UCI
    rules that can be permitted in a 2.9.1 tour. Stage 3 was 163
    kilometers (102 miles) and stage 6 is 149 kilometers (93 miles). Both
    are point to point road races, an endangered species in domestic
    racing and something Geist is reluctant to change.

    -----------------

    OK, I have some questions for those familiar with the politics of bike
    racing. What's a "UCI" event and what's a "2.9.1" tour? Why would it
    be advantageous for the TdT to be a UCI event? Why the 140 km limit?
    Can't it be waived or grandfathered for existing races? Is this limit
    different from that for men's races?
     
  5. M Man

    M Man Guest

    [email protected] (TritonRider) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > http://www.velonews.com/race/dom/articles/6723.0.html
    > "Lieswyn and Bessette take Toona titles"
    > Not a bad week for rbr folks. I'd doubt we could drag Lyne and Tim in though.
    > Bill C


    The following was in an article about the Tour de Toona on bike.com:

    (At the end I have some questions)

    --------------------

    The major driving force behind what many call the most promising stage
    race in the country is state representative Rick Geist (R- Altoona).

    In the first few Tours de Toona, editorials in the local paper
    criticized Geist for shortchanging the women of equal racing time and
    money compared to the men. Every since, Geist has made a pledge to
    give women the same 'money for miles' as the pro men, making Toona -
    as racers refer to it - a favorite for women in an NRC calendar
    otherwise dominated by crits and one-day events.

    After the race at the traditional race dinner which took place at a
    Hoss restaurant (the chain is also a sponsor of the Martinsburg
    stage), Geist revealed a vision for the 2005 women's race that would
    expand it to 10 days as well as acquire a UCI rating. Plans to add
    stages east towards Hershey, Pennsylvania, are also in the works. This
    year, Hershey was a new sponsor to the International Tour de Toona,
    using the race to springboard a healthy version of its chocolate with
    a 1g-of-sugar energy bar that hardly tastes any different than the one
    with 10 times as much sugar.

    Previous attempts to make Toona a UCI event have failed because two of
    the seven stages exceed 140 km, the maximum distance stipulated by UCI
    rules that can be permitted in a 2.9.1 tour. Stage 3 was 163
    kilometers (102 miles) and stage 6 is 149 kilometers (93 miles). Both
    are point to point road races, an endangered species in domestic
    racing and something Geist is reluctant to change.

    -----------------

    OK, I have some questions for those familiar with the politics of bike
    racing. What's a "UCI" event and what's a "2.9.1" tour? Why would it
    be advantageous for the TdT to be a UCI event? Why the 140 km limit?
    Can't it be waived or grandfathered for existing races? Is this limit
    different from that for men's races?
     
  6. M Man

    M Man Guest

    [email protected] (TritonRider) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > http://www.velonews.com/race/dom/articles/6723.0.html
    > "Lieswyn and Bessette take Toona titles"
    > Not a bad week for rbr folks. I'd doubt we could drag Lyne and Tim in though.
    > Bill C


    The following was in an article about the Tour de Toona on bike.com:

    (At the end I have some questions)

    --------------------

    The major driving force behind what many call the most promising stage
    race in the country is state representative Rick Geist (R- Altoona).

    In the first few Tours de Toona, editorials in the local paper
    criticized Geist for shortchanging the women of equal racing time and
    money compared to the men. Every since, Geist has made a pledge to
    give women the same 'money for miles' as the pro men, making Toona -
    as racers refer to it - a favorite for women in an NRC calendar
    otherwise dominated by crits and one-day events.

    After the race at the traditional race dinner which took place at a
    Hoss restaurant (the chain is also a sponsor of the Martinsburg
    stage), Geist revealed a vision for the 2005 women's race that would
    expand it to 10 days as well as acquire a UCI rating. Plans to add
    stages east towards Hershey, Pennsylvania, are also in the works. This
    year, Hershey was a new sponsor to the International Tour de Toona,
    using the race to springboard a healthy version of its chocolate with
    a 1g-of-sugar energy bar that hardly tastes any different than the one
    with 10 times as much sugar.

    Previous attempts to make Toona a UCI event have failed because two of
    the seven stages exceed 140 km, the maximum distance stipulated by UCI
    rules that can be permitted in a 2.9.1 tour. Stage 3 was 163
    kilometers (102 miles) and stage 6 is 149 kilometers (93 miles). Both
    are point to point road races, an endangered species in domestic
    racing and something Geist is reluctant to change.

    -----------------

    OK, I have some questions for those familiar with the politics of bike
    racing. What's a "UCI" event and what's a "2.9.1" tour? Why would it
    be advantageous for the TdT to be a UCI event? Why the 140 km limit?
    Can't it be waived or grandfathered for existing races? Is this limit
    different from that for men's races?
     
  7. [email protected] (M Man) wrote:

    > Previous attempts to make Toona a UCI event have failed because two of
    > the seven stages exceed 140 km, the maximum distance stipulated by UCI
    > rules that can be permitted in a 2.9.1 tour. Stage 3 was 163
    > kilometers (102 miles) and stage 6 is 149 kilometers (93 miles). Both
    > are point to point road races, an endangered species in domestic
    > racing and something Geist is reluctant to change.
    > -----------------
    >
    > OK, I have some questions for those familiar with the politics of bike
    > racing. What's a "UCI" event and what's a "2.9.1" tour? Why would it
    > be advantageous for the TdT to be a UCI event? Why the 140 km limit?
    > Can't it be waived or grandfathered for existing races? Is this limit
    > different from that for men's races?


    UCI = www.uci.ch, international governing body of bike racing, like
    FIFA for soccer or FIS for skiing

    2.9.1 = category of race. 2= stage race, 9=women's, 1=first category,
    less difficult than 2.9.HC and more than 2.9.2 (I forget how deep
    the race categories go for women's stage races, see rules at www.uci.ch)

    UCI event means riders get UCI points which boosts their standing and
    their teams', makes a race more attractive to teams, might even mean
    some European teams would show up, might be a pain for domestic women's
    teams that are USCF teams but not UCI-registered.

    140 km limit - race length limits scale with category of race. Women's
    limits are shorter than men's - the women are about 10% slower but I think
    the ratio of limits is bigger than 10%, for no particularly good reason.
    Probably UCI old-fartism. Old-fartism also means they aren't quick to
    make exceptions. Though there aren't many big US stage races, esp for women
    since the Idaho race went away, you would think the UCI would have an
    interest in playing ball, but if there's one thing the UCI doesn't do,
    it's play ball.
     
  8. MMan37x

    MMan37x Guest

    >> Previous attempts to make Toona a UCI event have failed because two of
    >> the seven stages exceed 140 km, the maximum distance stipulated by UCI
    >> rules that can be permitted in a 2.9.1 tour. Stage 3 was 163
    >> kilometers (102 miles) and stage 6 is 149 kilometers (93 miles). Both
    >> are point to point road races, an endangered species in domestic
    >> racing and something Geist is reluctant to change.
    >> -----------------
    >>
    >> OK, I have some questions for those familiar with the politics of bike
    >> racing. What's a "UCI" event and what's a "2.9.1" tour? Why would it
    >> be advantageous for the TdT to be a UCI event? Why the 140 km limit?
    >> Can't it be waived or grandfathered for existing races? Is this limit
    >> different from that for men's races?

    >
    >UCI = www.uci.ch, international governing body of bike racing, like
    >FIFA for soccer or FIS for skiing
    >
    >2.9.1 = category of race. 2= stage race, 9=women's, 1=first category,
    >less difficult than 2.9.HC and more than 2.9.2 (I forget how deep
    >the race categories go for women's stage races, see rules at www.uci.ch)
    >
    >UCI event means riders get UCI points which boosts their standing and
    >their teams', makes a race more attractive to teams, might even mean
    >some European teams would show up, might be a pain for domestic women's
    >teams that are USCF teams but not UCI-registered.
    >
    >140 km limit - race length limits scale with category of race. Women's
    >limits are shorter than men's - the women are about 10% slower but I think
    >the ratio of limits is bigger than 10%, for no particularly good reason.
    >Probably UCI old-fartism. Old-fartism also means they aren't quick to
    >make exceptions. Though there aren't many big US stage races, esp for women
    >since the Idaho race went away, you would think the UCI would have an
    >interest in playing ball, but if there's one thing the UCI doesn't do,
    >it's play ball.
    >


    <Heaves big, sad sigh>

    I figured it was something like that.

    When Stage 3 (Johnstown to Altoona) was first run, the riders loved it -
    especially the ones with European experience because it's so much like a
    classical point-to-point European-style road race. Not something they get
    elsewhere in N. America.

    And Stage 6, which includes the run up the steep side of Blue Knob Mountain, is
    the absolute featured stage of the TdT. Messing with that would be like
    filling in all the pot-bunkers at Saint Andrew's for the British Open golf
    tournament.

    I would think UCI, rather than make an exception, might re-look at their
    limits. As the article I quoted points out, the women at TdT were given equal
    prize money with the stipulation that they'd have to ride a course designed for
    male riders, and traditionally (as the UCI limits suggest) considered too long
    and difficult for females.

    Well, I've been following this race for years, and I haven't noticed any
    extraordinary rates of attrition or injury among the women riders. I guess
    the wimpy chicks just don't show up for the TdT, if indeed there are any wimpy
    chicks who race bicycles for a living. UCI seems to think so.

    Frustrating, but Geist is an able politician, and may be able to pull this off
    eventually. It would be great to get some top European teams to show up, as
    you suggest they might with UCI certification.

    (Is there any reason for this race not to qualify under a rating higher than
    2.9.1? I'm not sure why this particular number was chosen.)


    M Man
     
  9. Robert Chung

    Robert Chung Guest

    MMan37x wrote:

    > (Is there any reason for this race not to qualify under a rating higher
    > than 2.9.1? I'm not sure why this particular number was chosen.)


    Because, among women's races, 2.9.1 is the highest rating there is?
     
  10. MMan37x

    MMan37x Guest

    >MMan37x wrote:
    >
    >> (Is there any reason for this race not to qualify under a rating higher
    >> than 2.9.1? I'm not sure why this particular number was chosen.)

    >
    >Because, among women's races, 2.9.1 is the highest rating there is?
    >


    I thought the previous poster mentioned something called 2.9.HC



    M Man
     
  11. Robert Chung

    Robert Chung Guest

    MMan37x wrote:
    >> MMan37x wrote:
    >>
    >>> (Is there any reason for this race not to qualify under a rating
    >>> higher than 2.9.1? I'm not sure why this particular number was
    >>> chosen.)

    >>
    >> Because, among women's races, 2.9.1 is the highest rating there is?
    >>

    >
    > I thought the previous poster mentioned something called 2.9.HC


    He also mentioned the UCI rulebook, which trumps anything we may say here.
    Here's the URL:
    http://www.uci.ch/english/about/rules_2004/ch02.pdf
     
  12. On 04 Aug 2004 09:29:48 GMT, [email protected] (MMan37x) wrote:

    >Well, I've been following this race for years, and I haven't noticed any
    >extraordinary rates of attrition or injury among the women riders.


    Only in the years when the dehydration is a major factor. The 100
    pound female racer simply feels the effects more. There have been
    several years when there were a fair number of women in the
    rehydration pits and a pretty good number of DNFs.

    Curtis L. Russell
    Odenton, MD (USA)
    Just someone on two wheels...
     
  13. M Man

    M Man Guest

    "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > MMan37x wrote:
    > >> MMan37x wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> (Is there any reason for this race not to qualify under a rating
    > >>> higher than 2.9.1? I'm not sure why this particular number was
    > >>> chosen.)
    > >>
    > >> Because, among women's races, 2.9.1 is the highest rating there is?
    > >>

    > >
    > > I thought the previous poster mentioned something called 2.9.HC

    >
    > He also mentioned the UCI rulebook, which trumps anything we may say here.
    > Here's the URL:
    > http://www.uci.ch/english/about/rules_2004/ch02.pdf


    Hmmm. Looking at the "change dates" on some items, it looks like
    these rules *do* get changed relatively often.
     
  14. "Sierraman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > http://www.velonews.com/race/dom/articles/6723.0.html
    > > "Lieswyn and Bessette take Toona titles"
    > > Not a bad week for rbr folks. I'd doubt we could drag Lyne and Tim in

    > though.
    > > Bill C

    >
    > Yeah, I have some great photos but can't share.


    Please elaborate why you can't share. If hosting is a problem, email me.

    > Anyway Jeanson seems to be
    > growing up. Her facials features have changed some. Bessette is having a
    > great year. She should be on an incredible high going into the games. Lynn G
    > was racing well and I love the yellow fingernails. She must of been watching
    > some old videos of LZ.
    >
    > B-
     
  15. mman

    mman New Member

    Joined:
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    I haven't seen this myself but I googled a bit and found a description of TdT women rehydrating in droves after a stage some years ago. The thing is, it was the fourth stage (three loops through Hollidaysburg) which isn't one of the stages UCI has a problem with. I've never taken off work to see the finish of that stage.

    The sixth stage, the longest (163 k, I think) has a long stretch in the middle which is at a high elevation - the whole climb up and down Blue Knob Mountain, which is the second-highest point in Pennsylvania. It's always *much* cooler up there than it is in Altoona or Hollidaysburg, and usually breezy as well. So that stage isn't going to be hot from beginning to end.

    In fact, I was up there last Saturday watching the first KOM/QOM point and was cool even in a zipped-up jacket, thought the weather was quite warm at the start/finish line in Altoona. The riders crossing the KOM/QOM line were obviously "feeling the burn", but they weren't sweating.

    It would be interesting to find out how UCI sets its limits and why. You'd think things like injuries and dehydration would be the reason, but maybe it isn't.

    There was this sentence in the UCI manual after the list of length-limits:
    "For events for elite riders exemptions may be granted by the UCI management commitee or, for events in classes 3 and above, by the Professional Cycling Council."
     
  16. On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:30:15 +1000, mman
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I haven't seen this myself but I googled a bit and found a description
    >of TdT women rehydrating in droves after a stage some years ago. The
    >thing is, it was the fourth stage (three loops through Hollidaysburg)
    >which isn't one of the stages UCI has a problem with. I've never taken
    >off work to see the finish of that stage.


    That was one of the two that I recalled and the reason I used the term
    'dehydration pit'. They had an entire section on one side near the
    start/finish with stretchers and IVs. A couple looked near death - and
    that't per the former shift oncology nurse I'm married to that has
    seen the real thing.

    OTOH, we spent most of the day in the Irish pub at the bottom of the
    hill and didn't have any real problem until we came out into the
    sunlight. Took three tries - kept retreating to airconditioning and
    Harps. Nice view through the windows...

    Curtis L. Russell
    Odenton, MD (USA)
    Just someone on two wheels...
     
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