SteveBABY, how does having a graphic mind have ANYTHING to do with why people own guns? I do have to admit that that little exerpt was quite graphic and uncalled for, however, I am highly offended that you are STEREOTYPING all gunowners as having a graphic mind. That simply tells me that you must be nieve to the actual facts and are very closed minded.stevebaby said:
Wow, yer grasping at straws there Dorothy. Ya see, nowhere has Steve stereotyped anyone, and your post quite frankly comes accross as rather frightening. And I don't mean 'frightening' in the cute way, I mean frightening in more of a Charles Manson *slash* Survivalist Redkneck way.rdr0912 said:
jeepguy32 said:As of this writing (May 2007), forty-eight of the fifty United States have some sort of Concealed Carry Weapon (CCW) license available to their law-abiding citizens. Really. Look it up. That’s 96% countrywide approval by state legislatures endorsing law abiding citizens having a reasonable means of protecting one’s self from grave danger away from the home. Illinois and Wisconsin are the only states left which deny their citizen’s the legal ability to carry for deterrence, defense, and protection of oneself and others.
Since this is the case, the question many cyclists may ask is no longer “Should I carry?” but rather “What should I carry?” The topic of this thread is not whether or not “carrying” is bad. This is a cycling equipment forum…so we’ll talk equipment! As such, let’s discuss what type of handguns are most suitable as a standard piece of cycling equipment and why.
Before continuing, I wish to state plainly that those who need training should go and get it. If you’re new to firearms, visit your local gun range, find an instructor, get training, get comfortable, and practice, practice, practice. This is a very personal decision and it must be taken seriously. If you need help finding resources in your area the NRA (National Rifle Association) website is a good place to find instructors, classes, and ranges in your area. Sometimes these classes are free! Good instructors love to help and welcome those new to shooting sports. Now, on with the thread…
To the cyclist who has never owned or even thought of owning a handgun for protection on the trail or tour, the selection of an appropriate handgun can be daunting. There are many aspects to consider. Price? Weight? Caliber? Revolver vs. Autoloader? Color? (Yes, color can be an important aspect of a carry “piece”.) You can see why once the very personal decision is made to accept responsibility for your own safety, a whole new myriad of questions must be weighed and waded through to make an appropriate selection. I’ll briefly touch on each of the aspects I’ve mentioned above to start the discussion, then I’ll reveal what my personal choice is and why.
Price? Much like buying a bicycle, price can many times indicate quality. You’ll want to spend as much as you can afford to get the features you wish. Something “too cheap to be true” probably isn’t and might not be reliable or may even be dangerous. Plan to spend in the neighborhood of $300 to even think of a reliable, entry-level purchase.
Weight? This is a double-edged sword. Heaviness reduces “kick” when shot, but being heavy means that it’s HEAVY. We spend a lot of money to buy light bikes. We should probably lean in the same direction when selecting a carry piece. A heavy burden is more likely to be left at home where’s it’s no use on the trail, or in the glove-box of a car which is unwise storage for a number of reasons which I won’t go into right now. I opt for lightness.
Caliber? Discussions about caliber will no doubt become a large part of this tread. In short, for personal protection, it is generally recommended that at least a .380 Auto or equivalent be the bare minimum. Some say use at least a 9mm Luger cartridge, minimum. In a revolver, a .38 would be the least I’d recommend. Once again, this is a very personal decision. A well-known expert in the field of personal protections says that the first rule of gun-fighting is “bring a gun”…rule two is “bring ENOUGH gun”. For what it’s worth, I use as much “punch” as I can comfortably control.
Revolver vs. Autoloader? First off, it irritates me to no end when the liberal media reports on a gun related crime and always seems to mention that an “automatic handgun” (an “auto”) was used. To the uneducated, an “automatic handgun” would imply that you squeeze the trigger once and the result is a steady stream of bullets being fired like a machine gun until empty. This is incorrect as I will explain shortly. I personally feel that this sort of reporting is irresponsible and lathers up the gun control types into an uneducated fervor. But I digress.
Let me describe first what a revolver is and then compare that to an autoloader. Remember, I’m writing this to an audience which may have no firearm experience whatsoever. A revolver is easily identified because it looks like, well, a cowboy gun. It’s what you see in “Hawaii Five-O” reruns. The cartridges (ammunition) are held in a rotating cylinder. Typically a revolver holds anywhere from five to eight cartridges. In most modern revolvers, when the trigger is squeezed once, the cylinder rotates to have a fresh cartridge line up with the barrel, then the cartridge is fired. That’s it. Nothing else happens. One squeeze, one shot. Squeeze again and the process repeats until the ammo is used up.
An autoloader, on the other hand, looks like what James Bond uses, or what you might see in a WW II or Vietnam movie. It stores it’s cartridges in the handle, or “grip”. An autoloader may hold from as little as five to as many as fifteen cartridges (or more) depending on the style and caliber. In most modern autoloaders, when the trigger is squeezed once, a cartridge is fired then a fresh cartridge is automatically loaded, waiting for the next trigger squeeze. That’s it. Nothing else happens. One squeeze, one shot. Squeeze again and the process repeats until the ammo is used up. Notice how “Auto” means auto-load, not auto-fire? Do you feel duped by the media? Once again, I digress.
Historically, revolvers have been considered more reliable and take less maintenance than autoloaders. Modern autoloaders, however, have a great track record of reliability when kept only marginally clean. I am not saying it’s good idea to let any carry piece become dirty, but most quality autoloaders, if not equally reliable as revolvers, are probably close. I’m sure these aspects will be covered as the thread develops.
Color? Color can play an important role to the cyclist wishing to keep a concealed carry piece actually concealed. Our eyes are drawn to light whether that be from a television, a campfire, or even reflected from a stainless steel or nickel plated firearm. I’m one who truly appreciates firearms: historically, mechanically, artistically, and so on. I am especially fond of the brightness and crispness of stainless steel. But if the strategy is concealment, then darker colors are the way to go. A darker piece tends to visually disappear into the recesses and shadows of a handlebar bag or pocket, whereas a bright piece will visually tend to call attention to itself.
My Choice? After months of evaluation and contemplation, for my standard cycling carry piece I chose a Smith & Wesson model 340PD revolver. From the S&W website:“Smith & Wesson combined a Scandium alloy frame with a Titanium cylinder to build the strongest and lightest weight .357 Magnum revolver made. The result...maximum power in a small, lightweight, easy-to-carry package. Scandium alloy is used for small, medium and large frame revolvers. Smith & Wesson's lightest and strongest revolvers deliver dependable power every time.”
The scandium alloy doesn’t corrode, so I don’t mind if I handle it while sweating. Unloaded it only weighs 12 ounces, so it’s easy to take with me everywhere I go. The .357 is an extremely effective self-protection cartridge, but cheaper and milder kicking .38’s can be shot from the same gun for practice. The “HIVIZ” green light-pipe front sight is easy for the eye to pickup in bright light. For low-light situations I installed a Crimson Trace laser sight, which increases accuracy if tensions are high, but is also an effective visual deterrent without ever squeezing the trigger. The laser sight is built into a slightly smaller grip, which makes the piece even more compact. I can almost completely conceal the unit in my hand. The “PD” designation is the dark (almost black) frame, which doesn’t announce itself as much as it’s shiny “Non-PD” brother (which I think is more attractive, but what the hey).
So what do you carry? Why? How do you carry it? Why? Got any good tips for others? Let’s hear ‘em. Any beginners with questions? Ask ‘em!
“An armed society is a polite society.” - Robert A. Heinlein
Hello Joe West!
Thylacine:Thylacine said:
Your a pretty F@#@#d up person if you think this garbage justifys anything mate. All this does is show utter contenmpt on your part to rape victims and there families. I'm more than happy to debate this topic with anyone that does not share my veiw, but this is just sickly. Maybe you need an experience like you have depicted to realize. It's not something anyone should ever have to go through, and to use it to make a make about your right to carry a gun says alot about you, that If I were you, I wouldn't want people to know.jeepguy32 said:From The Kansas City Star
Posted on Tue, May. 29, 2007
Olathe man pleads no contest to rape, kidnapping
Matthew J. Cullen, 29, of Olathe, pleaded no contest Tuesday to the rape and aggravated kidnapping of a 17-year-old on an Olathe biking trail in July 2005.
The victim testified in a preliminary hearing that Cullen had choked and sexually assaulted her while she was walking on a trail between Mur-Len and Black Bob roads.
Cullen originally had pleaded not guilty to the charges. In May 2006, a Johnson County judge ordered a mental competency evaluation for Cullen.
Police arrested Cullen after the victim pointed him out on a Web site that pictured area sexual offenders. He was on parole at the time of the July 2005 rape after his attorneys won a Kansas Supreme Court appeal that halved his nearly 10-year prison sentence for a 1999 attempted rape of a 14-year-old Olathe girl in her home.
Sentencing is scheduled July 11.
- Joyce Tsai, [email protected]
© 2007 Kansas City Star and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.kansascity.com
__________________________________________________________
Note from Jeepguy32:
I rode on this trail yesterday. It is in a nice, "safe", upper-middle class area of the greater Kansas City metro. I wonder how many times would the rapist continue to thrust his penis into the 17 year old girl's vagina while mobile-phone toting "knights in shining armor" waited for police to show up on the scene? "pump...scream" 100 penetrations? "pump...yell" 500 penetrations? "pump...scream" What if it was your daughter or sister who was being raped? "pump...scream...slap...shutup b****!" Would you prefer that well intentioned, yet unarmed citizens stand by "pump...yell" to show the police on which section of the trail "pump...scream...slap" the torture was taking place? "pump...shutup!" Did you tell the dispatcher near 13559 Merlin Road or 13959 Merlin road? "pump-scream". You can hear the sirens, "pump...pump...slap" but where are the police?
I for one, will undoubtedly be able to help a victim in this situation. I won’t have to wait for the police who have been dispatched at 80 miles per hour. I will be able to dispatch my own brand of help at 800 miles per hour. And I won’t hesitate even a blink to protect you, too. Bad guys suck.
Have a nice day.
“An armed society is a polite society.” - Robert A. Heinlein
Having worked as a Life gaurd since I was 16, I can say I've risked my life on Australian beaches many times over for a complete stranger. On occasion when faces with death from the elements of the ocean you would almost rather a bullett. Almost.izatt82 said:
I find it funny that us in Wisconsin and Illinos are some of the people who can actually handle weapons effectivly. Where I come from the opening of white tail hunting season is as big as a holiday. Most people where I come from either hunt or hunted when they were younger. I myself am well versed in firing all different types of firearms. I think that Wisconsin and Illinos shoud both get conceled weapons permits. And mabye you Bikelyst wander around getting drunk and waking up drunk in peoples yards but I dont.Bikelyst said:I wonder why...probably because we are wandering around drunk half the time.
Please direct me to comments by these sad sad people who have expressed the belief that they CANNOT be safe without a gun. I don't recall any, just people who thought they were employing a strategy which can be argued to increase your safety.metrovelo said:
Not at all, Don, I agree that all handguns should immediately be placed in a bucket of water.Don Shipp said:
