Great ride today but what's with other cyclists?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Mike Jacoubowsk, Feb 8, 2004.

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  1. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird. Are we so self-absorbed in whatever we're doing that we
    >no longer ask if somebody might need anything? (True enough that we were OK, but there's no way
    >anybody riding past can know that for sure without asking).

    You were all probably absorbed in the task at hand. Y'see, if you really NEEDED something, you'd
    cast your gaze at the approaching cyclists, exhibiting your best imploring expression. You'd at
    least make eye contact.

    FWIW, I flatted today as well, and no one stopped to help me - but I just look so dang competent.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     


  2. Don

    Don Guest

    well. my experience is that the better equipment they have, the more self absorbed they are and most
    won't even wave at you if you don't look 'cool'.... cyclists are the most egocentric unfriendly
    group of people i've ever met.. one would think they would encourage all the novices as the more
    people involved, the more people are going to press for trails, etc.. but it just aint so.... the
    better equipment they have, the more snobby they become..

    cheers

    don

    "Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird. Are we so self-absorbed in whatever we're doing that
    > >we no longer ask if somebody might need
    anything?
    > >(True enough that we were OK, but there's no way anybody riding past can know that for sure
    > >without asking).
    >
    > You were all probably absorbed in the task at hand. Y'see, if you really NEEDED something, you'd
    > cast your gaze at the approaching cyclists, exhibiting your best imploring expression. You'd at
    > least make eye contact.
    >
    > FWIW, I flatted today as well, and no one stopped to help me - but I just look so dang competent.
    >
    > Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  3. In article <[email protected]>,
    "len" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Rick Onanian" < wrote in message >
    > > My experience has been that presta valves blow out easily. Of all the beating I've given
    > > schrader tubes, never has a schrader valve failed me, nor have I seen or even heard of one.
    > >
    > > I was once on a ride in the woods with a group, and one guy's presta valve broke; he replaced
    > > the tube, whose valve was broken before he installed it; then he bummed a tube off another guy,
    > > whose valve broke while pumping (he didn't pump smoothly, and the pump didn't have a hose);
    > > then, the last presta tube anybody had, extremely carefully installed, did the trick.
    > >
    > > Another time, I was on my road bike, and ungracefully half-hopped a curb in a semi-emergency;
    > > the tube was fine, but the presta valve blew right out.
    > >
    > > Recently, I went to unscrew a presta to inflate it, and unscrewed it right out; and it didn't
    > > want to screw back in properly...
    >
    > Rick, I agree with you about presta valves, I think they are weak. But, with the narrow rims, you
    > have got to use a narrow stem. So, it has to be a narrower schrader valve, which they do not yet
    > make. Yet, I know that it can be done.

    I assume you're suggesting a completely new (and incompatible) valve specification: Schrader valves
    have a wider mouth, and cannot fit through a rim hole narrower than their mouth. But a narrower
    Schrader spec would also be more fragile...

    > Years ago , when I started using these newsgoups, I posted this opinion, in a similar discussion.
    > Brandt was in the thread, and he responded in his, what I have found to be his usual acerbic
    > tone. That, I was an idiot, for this and that reason. As a mechanic of many years, I have had to
    > use schrader valves in many applications, and I know they work for many , and varied
    > applications.

    JB has a very balanced look at both valve types in the FAQ:

    http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.29.html

    Precis: Presta offers easier inflation and makes narrow rims stronger. Schrader is tougher.

    What I've noticed about Presta valves is that they often have long bodies, the better to deal with
    deep-section aero rims. In non-aero rims, this is just more leverage with which to mess up the valve
    in some way.
    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  4. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:00:31 -0500, "len" <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    > As far as help from others, I always carry; a couple of tubes, a patch kit, frame pump, and a
    > spare tire. Damn, I hate to walk

    Only one frame pump? Mine broke the other day, and I sure was glad I had a CO2 inflator with two
    cartridges. The pump was purported to be good quality, a claim made by my trusted LBS guy who's
    rarely (if ever) wrong about such claims.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  5. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:02:24 -0600, Tim McNamara
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> writes:
    >> Of course American paranoia can also be a factor,
    >
    >American paranoia? What American paranoia? Who's saying that Americans are paranoid? What's
    >paranoid about realizing that everyone _is_ out to get you?

    Get OUT OF MY HEAD, man! You've got some kind of mind-reading device, haven't you? I know what
    you're up to! You'll never succeed! They'll get you long before they get me...
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  6. margolis1234

    margolis1234 Guest

    I remember when I had 4 flat tires while riding a century in Florida last year. I was only prepared
    with 2 tube spares. Not too many have had that much bad luck in a single ride! Anyway, I had so many
    people stop to offer me help. I also needed 2 new tubes.Both people who had offered to help me not
    only gave me their spare tube, but even refused my money to pay for the tubes. I now ride with Tufo
    Hi Carbon Clincher Tires at 175 PSI and I have never had a flat tire with these tires and they do
    not lose air.

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > First really, really, REALLY nice day of riding in Northern California in some time, and got out
    > this morning with a couple guys from the shop. On the way back one of them got a flat, so we're
    > stopped at the side of the road, replacing the tube and inflating it with one of those fun mini-
    > pumps... probably a good 15 minutes or so, with maybe 30-40 other cyclists passing by.
    >
    > Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird. Are we so self-absorbed in whatever we're doing that
    > we no longer ask if somebody might need
    anything?
    > (True enough that we were OK, but there's no way anybody riding past can know that for sure
    > without asking).
    >
    > 9 times out of 10, when you pass somebody who's stopped at the side of the road and doing
    > something with their bike (or just looking a bit out of place), they're OK. But there's always
    > that chance that somebody might
    have
    > discovered that their spare tube doesn't hold air, or their pump isn't working, or maybe they
    > can't figure out how to get the wheel back in and knocked out a brake shoe.
    >
    > Of course, lots of people won't say they need help even when they do, especially guys, so when I
    > pass somebody at the side of the road, I don't ask if they "need help" but instead "Do you have
    > what you need?" It's
    truly
    > amazing how many more people will say something like "Yeah, if you've got
    a
    > spare tube that would be great" if you ask them if they need anything...
    but
    > asking them if they need help and they'll almost always say no.
    >
    > It doesn't hurt to look after other cyclists on the road. Someday you
    just
    > might need help yourself.
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  7. Dane Jackson

    Dane Jackson Guest

    In rec.bicycles.misc Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:02:24 -0600, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>American paranoia? What American paranoia? Who's saying that Americans are paranoid? What's
    >>paranoid about realizing that everyone _is_ out to get you?

    > Get OUT OF MY HEAD, man! You've got some kind of mind-reading device, haven't you? I know what
    > you're up to! You'll never succeed! They'll get you long before they get me...

    Are you tired of the government reading your mind? Are you frustrated by the orbital mind control
    lasers being used to force you to buy fastfood? Do you need *quality* psychotronic protection for
    your cranium?

    Rick, I feel you could benefit from this very important technology:

    http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

    --
    Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g Yesterday upon the stair I met a man who
    wasn't there. He wasn't there again today -- I think he's from the CIA.
     
  8. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

    Joined:
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    [Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird. Are we so self-absorbed in whatever we're doing that we
    no longer ask if somebody might need anything? (True enough that we were OK, but there's no way
    anybody riding past can know that for sure without asking).

    I recall having two flats where other cyclists rode past. Both times they slowed or stopped and asked if I needed assistance.
    No one in a car has ever offered help. They definitely have an"I must be first in line and must get there fast agenda"
    I believe most cyclist in this area area very courteous
    Maybe I will change my mind tommrow but so far so good.

    ]
     
  9. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:50:02 GMT, Dane Jackson <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    >Do you need *quality* psychotronic protection for your cranium? http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

    Argh! That website is scanning my brain! They offer a book which is sure to have microscopic
    psychotronic circuitry integrated into it's very paper...
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  10. I usually offer help, but where there are so many bikes and when it looks like the person doesn't
    need it I might just pass a greeting. Sometimes you can really tell when someone looks helpless. I
    think that is easily recognizeable and that person would get automatic offers from most any
    experience biker who passes. The first time I tried to use my telescoping pump it fell apart. I now
    have a Sigma Sport 'Lambda Jet Digital' which I really like. The digital gage is handy, but the
    footrest makes pumping sooo much easier! I also routinely carry two tubes, patch kit and spare tire
    even on local rides, and have been known to use it all. When touring with wheels using nonstandard
    spokes it's important to carry couple of extra spokes (easily taped to frame). Touring in France
    another rider broke two nonstandard spokes and wound up having to buy a cheap wheel and carry his
    fancy one...

    Steve Juniper "Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere."

    "Rick Onanian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]... On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:00:31 -0500, "len"
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    > As far as help from others, I always carry; a couple of tubes, a patch kit, frame pump, and a
    > spare tire. Damn, I hate to walk

    Only one frame pump? Mine broke the other day, and I sure was glad I had a CO2 inflator with two
    cartridges. The pump was purported to be good quality, a claim made by my trusted LBS guy who's
    rarely (if ever) wrong about such claims.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  11. S. Anderson

    S. Anderson Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird. Are we so self-absorbed in whatever we're doing that
    > we no longer ask if somebody might need
    anything?
    > (True enough that we were OK, but there's no way anybody riding past can know that for sure
    > without asking).

    Maybe they just thought you looked like a jack-ass?!?! ;-)

    Tongue firmly in cheek,

    Scott..
     
  12. Kaputnik

    Kaputnik Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    [big snip]

    > It doesn't hurt to look after other cyclists on the road. Someday you just might need help
    > yourself.
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    Well, I do stop and ask. Last time I stopped and fixed someone else's flat, it was a group of four
    cyclists standing around wondering what to do. One of them had a flat, but none of them had brought
    pump, tubes, or patches. I patched the guy's tire for him, in the mean time, his friends took off.
    He told me his wife usually carried the repair kit, but she wasn't riding with them that day.

    The only times I remember anyone asking if I needed help, it's actually been motorists. Really.
     
  13. bball

    bball Guest

    On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:05:01 -0500, "David L. Johnson"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 23:58:51 -0700, Benjamin Weiner wrote:
    >
    >>> Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird.
    >
    >Yeah, especially with the West coast supposedly so much friendlier than the East. Can't remember
    >this happening here. I get bent out of shape when cyclists don't wave as we pass by -- usually they
    >do. I always ask whether a single rider, or a small group, by the side of the road has what they
    >need. I think most riders do, here.
    >
    >> And last Sunday after 40 miles in cold and rain, I tacoed a wheel catastrophically on RR tracks
    >> and a passer-by gave me a lift 10 miles back to town in his pickup. (I was with several people,
    >> but none of us were equipped to solve the problem.)
    >
    >How could a rider be equipped to solve that problem? Some tacos can be almost miraculously
    >repaired by pressing on the high sides of the taco while the wheel is on one side on the road. But
    >that is only luck; if it doesn't work, you need someone with a spare wheel. Not too many riders
    >carry spare wheels.

    ----------------------

    At least some tacoed wheels can be quickly straightened enough to ride home, provided one has a
    spoke wrench. (Hard taco vs soft taco.) A fellow rider might offer the spoke wrench.

    It happened to me after overtensioning a wheel and going for a ride. The wheel tacoed after a few
    miles, tire lost the bead, tube blew. A spare tube, a spoke wrench and a half-hour I was back in the
    saddle again.

    A spoke wrench is handy to carry, or borrow if you have to. A broken driveside spoke on a 36h wheel,
    for example, can be comensated quite well by adjusting adjacent spokes to survive many miles to
    replacement if you have to. Ain't pretty but one can get along.

    Bruce Ball
     
  14. bball

    bball Guest

    On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 18:14:10 GMT, Chuck Anderson
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Kenny Lee wrote:
    >
    >>Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >>> First really, really, REALLY nice day of riding in Northern California in some time, and got out
    >>> this morning with a couple guys from the shop. On the way back one of them got a flat, so we're
    >>> stopped at the side of the road, replacing the tube and inflating it with one of those fun mini-
    >>> pumps... probably a good 15 minutes or so,
    >>
    >>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >>
    >>I have one of those Topeak mini-pumps and I can get a tire up to 80psi in about 3 minutes. What
    >>I do is lay the wheel flat on the ground and use my weight on the down strokes. If I were to use
    >>the mini-pump while the wheel is on the bike it would take me a long time if ever to get it up
    >>to 80psi.
    >>
    >>By the way I would stop just out of curiosity and probably to show off my mini-pump power
    >>pumpin form.
    >>
    >>
    >For rear wheels, I put the wheel back on (I almost said "mount it," .... but the wise arses here
    >...). I lean the bike against something, align the valve with the chainstay, grab it and the pump
    >with my left hand (avoids breaking the presta valve), and then use my right hand to pump with
    >additional force supplied by my right leg (knee against my right hand.) I can pump like that non-
    >stop until I get to pressure.
    >
    >If you align the valve with the chainstay and grab it and the pump with one hand, the rest will
    >come natural.

    -------------------

    My favorite method, provided a tree is handy, is to stand up with pump head nestled against
    protruding bark, and to lean in with the pumping, using the upper body mass particularly for those
    last 10psi.

    bball, colo spgs
     
  15. Rick Warner

    Rick Warner Guest

    [email protected]il.com wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > >>
    > >>By the way I would stop just out of curiosity and probably to show off my mini-pump power
    > >>pumpin form.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >For rear wheels, I put the wheel back on (I almost said "mount it," .... but the wise arses here
    > >...). I lean the bike against something, align the valve with the chainstay, grab it and the pump
    > >with my left hand (avoids breaking the presta valve), and then use my right hand to pump with
    > >additional force supplied by my right leg (knee against my right hand.) I can pump like that non-
    > >stop until I get to pressure.
    > >
    > >If you align the valve with the chainstay and grab it and the pump with one hand, the rest will
    > >come natural.
    >
    > -------------------
    >
    > My favorite method, provided a tree is handy, is to stand up with pump head nestled against
    > protruding bark, and to lean in with the pumping, using the upper body mass particularly for those
    > last 10psi.
    >
    > bball, colo spgs

    My method is to eschew the pumps that cannot develop high pressure without contortions. My current
    fave is the Topeak Road Morph (love the pump, hate the mount); has a tiny foot that flips down, and
    a hose that pulls out, so I do not have to develop odd bracing strategies. And it goes to 120psi+
    without much effort. On the bike where I have to go with a smaller pump due to lack of mounting
    space, I use the mini just to get things started and blast with CO2 to top it off.

    - rick
     
  16. Nicholas

    Nicholas Guest

    Rick Warner writes

    > My current fave is the Topeak Road Morph (love the pump, hate the mount); has a tiny foot that
    > flips down, and a hose that pulls out, so I do not have to develop odd bracing strategies. And it
    > goes to 120psi+ without much effort.
    [...]

    I agree with you on the Topeak Road Morph. I tossed the original mount, and substituted a Twofish
    Bikeblock. Perfect!

    http://www.twofishunlimited.com/bike.html

    Nicholas Grieco
     
  17. [email protected] wrote:
    > On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:05:01 -0500, "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 23:58:51 -0700, Benjamin Weiner wrote:

    > >> And last Sunday after 40 miles in cold and rain, I tacoed a wheel catastrophically on RR tracks
    > >> and a passer-by gave me a lift 10 miles back to town in his pickup. (I was with several people,
    > >> but none of us were equipped to solve the problem.)
    > >
    > >How could a rider be equipped to solve that problem? Some tacos can be almost miraculously
    > >repaired by pressing on the high sides of the taco while the wheel is on one side on the road.
    > >But that is only luck; if it doesn't work, you need someone with a spare wheel. Not too many
    > >riders carry spare wheels.

    > At least some tacoed wheels can be quickly straightened enough to ride home, provided one has a
    > spoke wrench. (Hard taco vs soft taco.) A fellow rider might offer the spoke wrench.

    In this case, I actually had a spoke wrench - well, a Ritchey multi-tool with a spoke wrench notch.
    Ironically, we had used the spoke wrench earlier in the ride to true up somebody else's wheel. I
    didn't think right away of repairing the taco (though I have done that before) but in any case, this
    one is really bad. I haven't been able to fix it yet even in my nice dry house after loosening all
    the spokes two turns, let alone by the side of the road on a cold wet day.

    > It happened to me after overtensioning a wheel and going for a ride. The wheel tacoed after a few
    > miles, tire lost the bead, tube blew. A spare tube, a spoke wrench and a half-hour I was back in
    > the saddle again.

    > A spoke wrench is handy to carry, or borrow if you have to. A broken driveside spoke on a 36h
    > wheel, for example, can be comensated quite well by adjusting adjacent spokes to survive many
    > miles to replacement if you have to. Ain't pretty but one can get along.

    I agree. I carry this goofy little Ritchey CPR-5 mini-tool which has a spoke wrench slot, a chain
    tool and 8/9/10mm wrenches; some loose allen keys; and a mini screwdriver. The CPR-5 chain tool is
    not very good because it has no loosening shelf, but it is for emergencies. You can improvise many
    tools or borrow from some passerby (unless you're in the woods) but improvising a chain tool is a
    royal pain. The 8/9/10mm wrenches don't give much leverage but are useful, especially on older
    bikes, canti brake hangers, etc.
     
  18. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Rick Onanian writes:

    > My experience has been that Presta valves blow out easily. Of all the beating I've given Schrader
    > tubes, never has a Schrader valve failed me, nor have I seen or even heard of one.

    > I was once on a ride in the woods with a group, and one guy's Presta valve broke; he replaced the
    > tube, whose valve was broken before he installed it; then he bummed a tube off another guy, whose
    > valve broke while pumping (he didn't pump smoothly, and the pump didn't have a hose); then, the
    > last Presta tube anybody had, extremely carefully installed, did the trick.

    The problem here is twofold. Presta valves in order to be pumped easily with an old style frame fit
    pump (like a Silca Impero) must have no return spring as the Schrader does so the valve is conical,
    a shape that when close under pressure, even without tightly screwing the retaining nut, will stick
    firmly. If the valve is not manually or otherwise depressed before pumping, it will not open even to
    200psi pressure.

    The second problem is that the stem is less than half as strong as a Schrader due to its smaller
    diameter and therefore, cannot be safely pumped against. That is to say, the pumping force cannot be
    put against the stem but must be essentially from one fist into the other. With the pump handle in
    one hand and the pump head (on the valve) in the other, pumping reaction force goes into the hands,
    not the stem that is unable to withstand that force.

    > Another time, I was on my road bike, and ungracefully half-hopped a curb in a semi-emergency; the
    > tube was fine, but the Presta valve blew right out.

    I don't understand what contacted the valve stem. Can you clarify? What broke and how was this
    related to the curb?

    > Recently, I went to unscrew a Presta to inflate it, and unscrewed it right out; and it didn't want
    > to screw back in properly...

    Removable Presta cores are not all that common in most brands but they are detectable because the
    coarse cap threads have two flats for tightening the core and loosening it. In that respect they are
    identical in function to Schrader valves that also leak if not screwed in firmly, the difference
    being that for the Schrader a special wrench is required, one that comes on the tip of some old
    metal valve caps.

    > Despite all that, I kinda like Presta, but I can't figure out why...;)

    They pump more easily with a simple pump. Unfortunately the 7/8" diameter piston and 16" long
    cylinder pumps are gone from the scene because too many riders complained of insufficient strength
    to pump a tire to 90+ psi. Those pumps were lighter and faster than any we can buy today, mainly
    because racers in the days of yore had to pump their own tires at times in races. With no more
    tubulars and spares, that went out the door. There were stages in the classics that allowed no
    mechanical support due to narrow mountain roads.

    > While people should stop to help, anybody who needs help should certainly not be the least bit
    > afraid to ask. If they are, then they're their own problem.

    I see it the other way. If you need help, ask for it. I find the interrogation I occasionally get
    while sand papering a tube... "Do you have a spare tube? Do you need a patch? Do you have a pump? Do
    you need help?... to which the questioner demands answers as though wanting to go through a newly
    learned sequence and to make use of the knowledge just acquired at the bicycle shop with the
    bicycle. Some people cannot see when they are not needed. Just a "Thanks" after the first question
    seems not to be enough.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  19. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:34:09 GMT, [email protected]
    wrote:
    >Rick Onanian writes:
    >> I was once on a ride in the woods with a group, and one guy's Presta valve broke; he replaced the
    >> tube, whose valve was broken before he installed it; then he bummed a tube off another guy, whose
    >> valve broke while pumping (he didn't pump smoothly, and the pump didn't have a hose); then, the
    >> last Presta tube anybody had, extremely carefully installed, did the trick.

    Note: I don't know why the original tube or the first replacement had bad valves.

    >the retaining nut, will stick firmly. If the valve is not manually or otherwise depressed before
    >pumping, it will not open even to 200psi pressure.

    This is good to know; nobody has ever told me this before.

    >The second problem is that the stem is less than half as strong as a Schrader due to its smaller
    >diameter and therefore, cannot be safely pumped against. That is to say, the pumping force cannot
    >be put against the stem but must be essentially from one fist into the other.

    Yup, this is what broke the second tube.

    >With the pump handle in one hand and the pump head (on the valve) in the other, pumping reaction
    >force goes into the hands, not the stem that is unable to withstand that force.

    Even while doing this, it can be hard to keep it still and steady. It helps to remove the wheel
    completely from the bike, so that you can hold it in whatever position is most comfortable for you
    to get this proper method. However, when excessively tired, or hot, or on a dangerous/scary road, or
    whatever, one can be pretty unsteady. Then, schrader's robustness would be preferred over presta's
    delicateness.

    >> Another time, I was on my road bike, and ungracefully half-hopped a curb in a semi-emergency; the
    >> tube was fine, but the Presta valve blew right out.
    >
    >I don't understand what contacted the valve stem. Can you clarify? What broke and how was this
    >related to the curb?

    I wish I had investigated it. I'll see if I still have the tube (doubtful, since it didn't seem at
    all repairable). I really can't imagine why a curb would have done it, but it was fine before the
    curb, and flat after.

    I don't think anything contacted the valve stem, unless the curb itself magically pushed through the
    tube and rim walls to reach the bottom of the stem (without damaging the rim). It may have been a
    weak stem, possibly fatigued from rough handling (although I never used a frame pump on it); I can
    only provide conjecture.

    When I went to fix it, I put some CO2 in it to find the leak, and it blasted right out the valve. I
    tried fooling around with the valve, screwing and unscrewing it's core and such, and IIRC, it was
    very loose no matter what I did.

    I've got to dig for a package from a cheap pump that broke last week, while I'm digging I'll see if
    the tube makes an appearance.

    The pump, I know, broke because it was an inferior quality pump, and I was using it in cold, wet
    weather. When I went to the LBS where I bought it, I was told that they don't sell that pump anymore
    for that reason...so no mystery on that one. :/

    >> Recently, I went to unscrew a Presta to inflate it, and unscrewed it right out; and it didn't
    >> want to screw back in properly...
    >
    >Removable Presta cores are not all that common in most brands but they are detectable because
    >the coarse cap threads have two flats for tightening the core and loosening it. In that
    >respect they are

    Err...I mean, no cap on it, I unscrewed the core too much, and it wouldn't go back together. I guess
    I have to start keeping better track of this stuff, this stuff just never concerned me much...I just
    try to bear in mind that presta valves are, IME, delicate.

    >identical in function to Schrader valves that also leak if not screwed in firmly, the difference
    >being that for the Schrader a special wrench is required, one that comes on the tip of some old
    >metal valve caps.

    You and David Kerber have mentioned schrader valves that can be screwed and unscrewed, but I don't
    think I've ever _seen_ such a thing.

    Well I'll be a monkey's bare-assed uncle. I just looked in a schrader valve, and sure enough, it
    appears there's a mechanism by which you could stick an appropriate tool in there and do stuff.

    With a presta valve, you always screw and unscrew it. I've _never_ heard of anybody actually
    screwing and unscrewing a schrader's innards like that.

    >> While people should stop to help, anybody who needs help should

    >people cannot see when they are not needed. Just a "Thanks" after the first question seems not to
    >be enough.

    Maybe "Thanks, I've got everything I need" will work.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  20. > I see it the other way. If you need help, ask for it. I find the interrogation I occasionally get
    > while sand papering a tube... "Do you have a spare tube? Do you need a patch? Do you have a pump?
    > Do you need help?... to which the questioner demands answers as though wanting to go through a
    > newly learned sequence and to make use of the knowledge just acquired at the bicycle shop with the
    > bicycle. Some people cannot see when they are not needed.

    The "Some people cannot see when they are not needed" bit puts quite a burden on the person asking
    if someone needs help. And it begs the question, when you reply to a given post, do you consider
    first whether it will be welcome or not?

    Asking someone who may (or may not) need help requires nothing more than a three-word response (as
    in "No, I'm fine"). If one were attempting to be civil, you could add two words and reply "No, I'm
    fine, but thanks!" The inherent danger in doing so is that it might encourage civility and/or
    somehow delay the normal progression of the universe in some terrible fashion.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Rick Onanian writes:
    >
    > > My experience has been that Presta valves blow out easily. Of all the beating I've given
    > > Schrader tubes, never has a Schrader valve failed me, nor have I seen or even heard of one.
    >
    > > I was once on a ride in the woods with a group, and one guy's Presta valve broke; he replaced
    > > the tube, whose valve was broken before he installed it; then he bummed a tube off another guy,
    > > whose valve broke while pumping (he didn't pump smoothly, and the pump didn't have a hose);
    > > then, the last Presta tube anybody had, extremely carefully installed, did the trick.
    >
    > The problem here is twofold. Presta valves in order to be pumped easily with an old style frame
    > fit pump (like a Silca Impero) must have no return spring as the Schrader does so the valve is
    > conical, a shape that when close under pressure, even without tightly screwing the retaining nut,
    > will stick firmly. If the valve is not manually or otherwise depressed before pumping, it will not
    > open even to 200psi pressure.
    >
    > The second problem is that the stem is less than half as strong as a Schrader due to its smaller
    > diameter and therefore, cannot be safely pumped against. That is to say, the pumping force cannot
    > be put against the stem but must be essentially from one fist into the other. With the pump handle
    > in one hand and the pump head (on the valve) in the other, pumping reaction force goes into the
    > hands, not the stem that is unable to withstand that force.
    >
    > > Another time, I was on my road bike, and ungracefully half-hopped a curb in a semi-emergency;
    > > the tube was fine, but the Presta valve blew right out.
    >
    > I don't understand what contacted the valve stem. Can you clarify? What broke and how was this
    > related to the curb?
    >
    > > Recently, I went to unscrew a Presta to inflate it, and unscrewed it right out; and it didn't
    > > want to screw back in properly...
    >
    > Removable Presta cores are not all that common in most brands but they are detectable because the
    > coarse cap threads have two flats for tightening the core and loosening it. In that respect they
    > are identical in function to Schrader valves that also leak if not screwed in firmly, the
    > difference being that for the Schrader a special wrench is required, one that comes on the tip of
    > some old metal valve caps.
    >
    > > Despite all that, I kinda like Presta, but I can't figure out why...;)
    >
    > They pump more easily with a simple pump. Unfortunately the 7/8" diameter piston and 16" long
    > cylinder pumps are gone from the scene because too many riders complained of insufficient strength
    > to pump a tire to 90+ psi. Those pumps were lighter and faster than any we can buy today, mainly
    > because racers in the days of yore had to pump their own tires at times in races. With no more
    > tubulars and spares, that went out the door. There were stages in the classics that allowed no
    > mechanical support due to narrow mountain roads.
    >
    > > While people should stop to help, anybody who needs help should certainly not be the least bit
    > > afraid to ask. If they are, then they're their own problem.
    >
    > I see it the other way. If you need help, ask for it. I find the interrogation I occasionally get
    > while sand papering a tube... "Do you have a spare tube? Do you need a patch? Do you have a pump?
    > Do you need help?... to which the questioner demands answers as though wanting to go through a
    > newly learned sequence and to make use of the knowledge just acquired at the bicycle shop with the
    > bicycle. Some people cannot see when they are not needed. Just a "Thanks" after the first question
    > seems not to be enough.
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
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