Greatest Athlete of All Time?



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In article <[email protected]>, "Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I think we could say that about LZ. How much passion does it take to come back from death to win
> 3 golds?
>

Bruce, I think you mean "near death". You make her sound like a (very successful) zombie
on wheels.

--
tanx, Howard

"Head of a cat, body of a monkey, Here comes a plague upon the land." The Billy Nayer Show

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
Bruce Johnston <[email protected]> wrote:

>> .... and one woman: Jeannie Longo.

> One women yeah, Some would argue that the depth of the womens field wasn't that good bad then. She
> didn't have enough competition and competed against mostly amatuers.

That's funny, I remember almost the exact same arguments being made about Eddy Merckx. People
(mostly french, of course) would say that Eddy had an unfair advantage because he trained in the
winter too, whereas most riders had jobs during the winter and couldn't train properly.

Didier

--
Didier A Depireux [email protected] [email protected] 685 W.Baltimore Str
http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (off)
University of Maryland -1273 (lab) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax: 1-410-706-2512
 
Bruce Johnston <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Jeannie is as a woman athlete incredible. In the middle of the 80s I got
> interested in
>> cycling. Who were the stars those days? Hinault, Fignon, Lemond, Moser,
> Saronni, Argentin,

>> .... and one woman: Jeannie Longo.

> I am only going to say one negative thing here. One women yeah, Some would argue that the depth of
> the womens field wasn't that good bad then. She didn't have enough competition and competed
> against mostly amatuers. That said, she retired because she was bored early on, that shows just
> how she stood head and shoulders above the rest. If she won that easily she either had not enough
> competition or she was quite an athlete. I tend to think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

The length of Longo's career contradicts this. This was true in 1979 when she scored her first top
ten finish. The top levels of women's racing had top athletes but many of them, like Connie
Carpenter and Beth Heiden, were there as a result of efforts in other sports.

The entry of women's racing into the Olympics in 1984 changed all that, and note that 1984 is still
well towards the front end of Longo's career. Women still don't have the depth of talent that men
have as we've recently seen in San Francisco. But the top levels have seen excellent competition
ever since the early 80s. You could see that in the results from US women. Great results at worlds
were much more common in the 70s when there was not much international interest in supporting women
racers. Once other nations began to devote more resources to developing talent the US placings
became much thinner.

LVM's run in Sydney was pretty amazing. But I think Longo's victory in Atlanta is one of the most
impressive single races in Olympic cycling history. It is a shame that NBC did such a hack job on
the TV coverage. Longo won in a true Merckx style, by just riding off into the distance. She was
just that much stronger than the rest of the field and there was nothing to be done to stop her.

Bob Schwartz [email protected]
 
Bruce Johnston wrote:
>
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:OB%[email protected]...
> >
> > "Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > >
> > > Gary Kasparov? OK, then you could add Bobby Fischer, or even Bruce Lee, Harry Houdini, maybe
> > > Carl Wallenda.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Monika Lewinsky and Heather Halvorsin.
>
> Yeah, but Heather is pretty amazing. How many girls worldwide can do STP on skates?

you're nice, but you have to quit mentioning that! heather "skate tourist" halvorsin
 
"Didier A. Depireux" schreef:

> That's funny, I remember almost the exact same arguments being made about Eddy Merckx. People
> (mostly french, of course) would say that Eddy had an unfair advantage because he trained in the
> winter too, whereas most riders had jobs during the winter and couldn't train properly.
>
>

They (the French) can also underline the advantage of being merely an occasional smoker in
the winter.
 
Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:27:46 GMT, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>> "Of the seven times I have attempted an eight-thousand metre peak, I have only four times
>>> reached the summit.
>>
>> I thought he bagged all the 8,000s, without oxygen.

> Which can still be consistent if there are only 4 or less 8000m peaks.

But there are 14 of them, look at http://www.jerberyd.com/climbing/climbers/kammerlander/ towards
the end, he explains that he won't do the 14th...

Didier

--
Didier A Depireux [email protected] [email protected] 685 W.Baltimore Str
http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (off)
University of Maryland -1273 (lab) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax: 1-410-706-2512
 
Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:27:46 GMT, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
>>>"Of the seven times I have attempted an eight-thousand metre peak, I have only four times reached
>>>the summit.
>>
>>I thought he bagged all the 8,000s, without oxygen.
>
>
> Which can still be consistent if there are only 4 or less 8000m peaks.

There are 14. He's done them all. The quote is old.
 
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:54:43 GMT, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> "Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Which can still be consistent if there are only 4 or less 8000m peaks.
>
> Dumbass -

I'm not dumb, only ignorant.
 
"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:54:43 GMT, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > "Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Which can still be consistent if there are only 4 or less 8000m peaks.
> >
> > Dumbass -
>
> I'm not dumb, only ignorant.

types flaunting your superiority. ********.
 
Donald Munro wrote:

> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>
>
>>>Which can still be consistent if there are only 4 or less 8000m peaks.
>>
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
>>Dumbass -
>
>
>>Just in the Everest massif I can think of 4 (Everest, Lhotse, Makalu, Cho
>
> Oyu).
>
>>I thought you Euros were into this sort of thing. Perhaps the lack of mountains in the Netherlands
>>explains it.
>
>
> What about the Cauberg :) ?

It's not even 8,000m LONG let alone high.
 
"Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> One women yeah, Some would argue that the depth of the womens field
wasn't
> that good bad then.

Perhaps Eddy Merckx won because he was so much better than his competition that it showed that they
were all poorly prepared?
 
"Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Bruce Johnston <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> Jeannie is as a woman athlete incredible. In the middle of the 80s I
got
> > interested in
> >> cycling. Who were the stars those days? Hinault, Fignon, Lemond, Moser,
> > Saronni, Argentin,
>
> >> .... and one woman: Jeannie Longo.
>
> > I am only going to say one negative thing here. One women yeah, Some would argue that the depth
> > of the womens field
wasn't
> > that good bad then. She didn't have enough competition and competed
against
> > mostly amatuers. That said, she retired because she was bored early on,
that
> > shows just how she stood head and shoulders above the rest. If she won
that
> > easily she either had not enough competition or she was quite an
athlete. I
> > tend to think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
>
> The length of Longo's career contradicts this. This was true in 1979 when
she
> scored her first top ten finish. The top levels of women's racing had top athletes but many of
> them, like Connie Carpenter and Beth Heiden, were
there
> as a result of efforts in other sports.
>
> The entry of women's racing into the Olympics in 1984 changed all that,
and
> note that 1984 is still well towards the front end of Longo's career.
Women
> still don't have the depth of talent that men have as we've recently seen
in
> San Francisco. But the top levels have seen excellent competition ever
since
> the early 80s. You could see that in the results from US women. Great
results
> at worlds were much more common in the 70s when there was not much
international
> interest in supporting women racers. Once other nations began to devote
more
> resources to developing talent the US placings became much thinner.
>
> LVM's run in Sydney was pretty amazing. But I think Longo's victory in
Atlanta
> is one of the most impressive single races in Olympic cycling history. It
is
> a shame that NBC did such a hack job on the TV coverage. Longo won in a
true
> Merckx style, by just riding off into the distance. She was just that much stronger than the rest
> of the field and there was nothing to be done to
stop
> her.

The gold had eluded her for so long in her career. Well earned.
>
> Bob Schwartz [email protected]
 
"Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Bruce Johnston"
<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
> > I think we could say that about LZ. How much passion does it take to
come
> > back from death to win 3 golds?
> >
>
> Bruce, I think you mean "near death". You make her sound like a (very successful) zombie on
> wheels.

She was a Zombie on wheels when she quit, broken from Anorexia.
>
> --
> tanx, Howard
>
> "Head of a cat, body of a monkey, Here comes a plague upon the land." The Billy Nayer Show
>
> remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
"Didier A. Depireux" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bruce Johnston <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> .... and one woman: Jeannie Longo.
>
> > One women yeah, Some would argue that the depth of the womens field
wasn't
> > that good bad then. She didn't have enough competition and competed
against
> > mostly amatuers.
>
> That's funny, I remember almost the exact same arguments being made about Eddy Merckx. People
> (mostly french, of course) would say that Eddy had an unfair advantage because he trained in the
> winter too, whereas most riders had jobs during the winter and couldn't train properly.

Not to take anything away from Merckx because he rode against some pretty big names as noted
earlier, Da Vlaeminck, Poulidor, Ocana, Gimondi, Zoetemelk, Van Impe, Thevenet, but what does that
say about the depth of competition of the field when some worked jobs? Top Pros today make good
enough money that they don't have to hold down jobs in the off seasons. As for the Top women, sad to
say some of them are not far away from going back to work at Starbucks with the current state of
affairs in women's cycling.

>
> Didier
>
> --
> Didier A Depireux [email protected] [email protected] 685 W.Baltimore Str
> http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (off)
> University of Maryland -1273 (lab) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax: 1-410-706-2512
 
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:16:00 GMT, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> ********.

I will, thanks. Goodnight and see you in the morning.
 
"Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, "Bruce Johnston"
> <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I think we could say that about LZ. How much passion does it take to
> come
> > > back from death to win 3 golds?
> > >
> >
> > Bruce, I think you mean "near death". You make her sound like a (very successful) zombie on
> > wheels.
>
> She was a Zombie on wheels when she quit, broken from Anorexia.

I don't feel bad for anorexics, it's a self-inflicted disease.
 
"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:16:00 GMT, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > ********.
>
> I will, thanks. Goodnight and see you in the morning.

I am going to side with Henry on this in my own way. I remember you don't even have the decency to
answer polite questions about your own countryman [LZVM] in the past. In fact as long as I have been
in this NG I cannot remember you ever saying anything nice about her, not even once. NL is a small
country and I understand that for the most part they are very supportive of their stars. So your
lack of grace is puzzling. I see a lot of Dutch tourists here that travel and visit Yosemite and in
passing chat they have always praised LZ in the highest regard. The NL is lucky to have her. The USA
is huge and we have a few girls. Bruckner was considered our best but she has cancer. Girls like LZ
are few and far between. At least you could be a little more genuine.

B-
 
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > In article <[email protected]>, "Bruce Johnston"
> > <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I think we could say that about LZ. How much passion does it take to
> > come
> > > > back from death to win 3 golds?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Bruce, I think you mean "near death". You make her sound like a
(very
> > > successful) zombie on wheels.
> >
> > She was a Zombie on wheels when she quit, broken from Anorexia.
>
>
>
> I don't feel bad for anorexics, it's a self-inflicted disease.

I kind of felt the same way Phil L quoted, (There's another good cyclist that disappeared off the
face of the earth) I think it was quite interesting that she turned a extreme negative into a
extreme positive. It doesn't get any better then that. I don't feel bad for them but she was also
caught up during a time when there was pressure on models to be thin. She has countless modeling
jobs on the side back then and even now.

A few old modeling links...

http://www.great-lengths.nl/declient.html http://www.first-impressions.nl/html/compex.html
http://www.hitwgang.com/content/m/moorsel_leontien_van/leontien_van_moorsel.htm
http://www.tv-vrouwen.net/reclamebabes/claudiastrater/ http://www.wannahaves.nl/whtv/sh32_it03.asp
http://www.desamenwerking.nl/tekst.asp?MenuItemId=295
 
Bruce Johnston wrote:
>
>
> I am going to side with Henry on this in my own way.

i think it was a joke. reread henry the troublemaker's post and you will see.

I remember you don't
> even have the decency to answer polite questions about your own countryman [LZVM] in the past. In
> fact as long as I have been in this NG I cannot remember you ever saying anything nice about her,
> not even once.

first, i don't see that it's ewoud's responsibility to feed you with lzvm info (some people think
that you have issues, afterall..), but anyways-
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3b24c6b6%240%245732%24e4fe514c%40newszilla.xs4all.nl

heather
 
"h squared" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Bruce Johnston wrote:
> >
> >
> > I am going to side with Henry on this in my own way.
>
> i think it was a joke. reread henry the troublemaker's post and you will
see.
>
> I remember you don't
> > even have the decency to answer polite questions about your own
countryman
> > [LZVM] in the past. In fact as long as I have been in this NG I cannot remember you ever saying
> > anything nice about her, not even once.
>
> first, i don't see that it's ewoud's responsibility to feed you with lzvm info (some people think
> that you have issues, afterall..)

Yes, I suppose some do. I'm a big LZ fan. Yeah, I can afford to travel to the NL to watch her race,
but I haven't done so. They know me well at Farm Frites so I am not a mysterious stalker. Virtual
stalker, multimedia stalker, whatever, but it's just a hobby out of interest no worse then tons of
fans out there in all sports.

, but anyways-
>
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3b24c6b6%240%245732%24e4fe514c%40newszilla.xs4all.nl
>
> heather

That Google record is dated before I entered the group. I was talking about the time frame that I
have been here.

True, it's not. He can answer or ignore anything he wants but quite often he seems to just post
jokes instead of adding anything helpful. I think that's his way of thumbing his nose at posts he
feels are irreverent or for idiots, and his superiority complex doesn't allow his to be serious. It
would be better not posting at all in those instances, IMO, but he can do what he wants. That's part
of the problem I think Henry is talking about, and that's what I see. Everybody jokes now and then
but he is the ultimate joker. As least Henry will answer the question usually, with a small price to
pay, but at least that's better then some guy throwing jokes all the time.
 
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