Greatest of all time



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"Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ronaldo Jeremiah" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Bruce, allow me to clarify a few things for you.
>
> > 3. Your contention (or that of others) that Merckx might not measure up to a modern-day Cat. 2
> > is beyond ludicrous.
>
> That was upgraded to Cat-1. I too thought that was ludicrous.
>
> You can be assured
> > that any person who utters such an assertion knows little to nothing about the sport.
>
> The guy, meant cat-1 and know the sport pretty well.

see Sundquist's posts about amateurs being able to ride 49.4km for the hour record on a regular
track bike.

There is no such thing.
 
Tim Mullin wrote:

> The dude has spent most of his adult life living in his mother's basement, and almost every waking
> hour on the bike. I'm not sure his failure to procreate has been by choice.

Didn't he get laid once and then posted the results to some discussion forum? Somebody here posted
the link some time ago.
 
"Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > Explain to me the relevance of average speed in a road race. Then
explain
> to
> > me how a Cat 2 could match it. If not you, then quote the 'well
respected
> > rbr'er' who made the claim. I presume he/she backed up their claim with quantifiable
> > information.
>
> He upgraded that statement to cat-1, no, it's not Kunich as Kyle
suggested.
> That doesn't matter.

Your original statement was, "Some argue that Merck wouldn't be able to keep up with Cat 2 racers
today because the times and speeds of those races were not up with today's races and riders." which
I interpret to be more than one person (fool) holding this opinion. Even if we upgrade it to Cat. 1,
according to the usacycling website, there are 141 Cat. 1 riders ranked (which is probably not close
to being inclusive). Most of them are masters, but apparently Cat. 1s nonetheless. Is it the opinion
of your well respected rbr'er(s) that Merckx would not be able to keep up with a field of the USA's
top 141 'amateur' riders?

> > In my opinion, Merckx (why do you insist on misspelling his name?)
> is the greatest road racer of all time.
>
> ok, that's a yes.
>
> Just lazy about leaving the X off. Didn't know it bothered anyone.

I wouldn't say it bothers me, but I think it is an indicator of credibility. Obviously, I am not
alone as others have made the reference to Merck Pharmaceuticals.
 
one word................... twisted.

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> On Mon, 12 May 2003 15:32:21 -0400, Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS wrote:
>
>>Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>>
>>>I get visions of Beverly and Elliot Mantle.
>>
>> And that's...a good thing?
>
>
> Not exactly :)
>
>
>>Sorry to display my apparent ignorance.
>
>
> See the movie Dead Ringers with Jeremy Irons playing the twins.
 
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> "Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>"Ronaldo Jeremiah" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Bruce, allow me to clarify a few things for you.
>>
>>>3. Your contention (or that of others) that Merckx might not measure up to a modern-day Cat. 2
>>> is beyond ludicrous.
>>
>>That was upgraded to Cat-1. I too thought that was ludicrous.
>>
>> You can be assured
>>
>>>that any person who utters such an assertion knows little to nothing about the sport.
>>
>>The guy, meant cat-1 and know the sport pretty well.
>
>
>
>
> see Sundquist's posts about amateurs being able to ride 49.4km for the hour record on a regular
> track bike.
>
>
> There is no such thing.
>
>

Isn't Boardman the only one who has done this (besides Merckx)?

Eddy is the greatest. Johnsto is a troll.

Bret
 
"Tim Mullin" <tvphotog@@posting.google.com...
> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote ...
>

>
> The dude has spent most of his adult life living in his mother's basement, and almost every waking
> hour on the bike. I'm not sure his failure to procreate has been by choice.

He's gotta be the GREATEST Rider then. Easily.

-kjp
 
Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:
>> It's a very simple question. Is Merck greatest Road racer of all time?
>>
>> Yes or no?

> Hey dumbass -

> Even the Biggest Fred knows the answer to that is yes.

OK, who can match:

- Dominance in the Grand Tours
- Dominance in single day races
- Hour record
- Multiple World Championships
- In multiple disciplines, road and track
- In a career that spanned decades
- From the 70s to the 00s
- Olympic Gold Medal

The answer is Merckx only if you limit the answer to riders with a penis. Otherwise I think the
answer is Longo.

Bob Schwartz [email protected]
 
"Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> The answer is Merckx only if you limit the answer to riders with a penis. Otherwise I think the
> answer is Longo.
>

Thank you, Bob. I stand corrected.
 
"Bret Wade" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> Eddy is the greatest. Johnsto is a troll.
>
> Bret

----------------------
No troll. Not intended. I have reposted enough to stir a reaction, but I don't post often.
Originally I asked Ken privately about this question and he posted it. Ken is not the guy I was
talking about having a discussion with on this issue. So I posted. I wanted to see what the yes's
and the no's have to say. It's an legit question with follow ups, not a troll. I don't have nearly
the time to spend in here like some of these guys who seem to be here round the clock. Ken hasn't
expressed an opinion either way.

B-
 
"Bart" <bartvhooreb@@posting.google.com...
> Your overview of Merckx palmares is incomplete. But thats beside the point.
>
> The 'gene pool' argumentation is bizarre really. I can understand that one would say that cycling
> is now global, while Merckx only faced local competition from 4 and a half countries or so. In
> that sense, cyclists indeed came from a more limited 'gene pool'. Which might have led to less
> depth of the field , even at top level.

Here's my limited perspective:

In 2003 99.5% of the pro racers would dominate the 1973 pros. However, in 1972 we didn't have all
the training knowledge, medical knowledge, legal medications, big bucks (salaries) and all of that.

Today there are 250 Top, Superb, World Class Pros. In 1973 maybe just 40 pros of that caliber. The
rest pack fodder.

> The way Merckx dominated races, and that throughout the whole season -doped or not- however is
> still telling enough I think. Don't forget that we only remember his wins, but in the classics he
> didn't win, he was often pacing as hell, but couldn't throw everybody off.
>
> Also in his career which you call 'explosive', he faced some opponents which only lasted for a few
> years. I think those were generally more doped up than Eddy, so that again speaks for him.
>
> I don't see the point of comparing speeds with the times of Eddy. If that makes some Cat.2's
> indeed think they are better , BRAVO !!!!!!
 
"Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >

> >
> > The dude has spent most of his adult life living in his mother's basement, and almost every
> > waking hour on the bike. I'm not sure his failure to procreate has been by choice.
>
> He's gotta be the GREATEST Rider then. Easily.
>

What about that Freddie guy from NJ; although I think he just does his own thing and isn't really
motivated by external challenges. And these are just the two guys we know about. There are bound to
be quite a few others worldwide.
 
"Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Here's my limited perspective:
>
> In 2003 99.5% of the pro racers would dominate the 1973 pros. However, in 1972 we didn't have
> all the training knowledge, medical knowledge, legal medications, big bucks (salaries) and all
> of that.
>
> Today there are 250 Top, Superb, World Class Pros. In 1973 maybe just 40 pros of that caliber. The
> rest pack fodder.
>

According to the UCI points scale:

249 DEN HOJ Frank FAK 246.00

249 FRA MENGIN Christophe FDJ 246.00

These two would have been top 40 about 30 years ago? With 1973 training knowledge?

Below is the start list for the 1973 TdF. Where would Hoj and Megnin likely rank in this group?

001 - ABILEIRA José-Antonio ESP 002 - AERTS Paul BEL 003 - AGOSTINHO Joaquim POR 004 - AIMAR Lucien
FRA 005 - AJA Gonzalo ESP 006 - ANDRADE Joaquim POR 007 - BALAGUE Luis ESP 008 - BAUD Jean-Claude
FRA 009 - BELLONE Gilbert FRA 010 - BERLAND Roland FRA 011 - BESNARD Gérard FRA 012 - BLAIN
Christian FRA 013 - BLOCHER Jean-Claude FRA 014 - BODART Emile BEL 015 - BOISHARDY Marcel FRA 016 -
BOTHEREL Jacques FRA 017 - BOULOUX Robert FRA 018 - CAMPANER Francis FRA 019 - CARLETTI Joseph FRA
020 - CATIEAU José FRA 021 - COULON Michel BEL 022 - DANGUILLAUME Jean-Pierre FRA 023 - DAVID
Wilfried BEL 024 - DE BRAUWERE Lucien BEL 025 - DE GEEST ***** BEL 026 - DE KONING Mathijs BEL 027 -
DELCROIX Ludo BEL 028 - DELEPINE Régis FRA 029 - DELISLE Raymond FRA 030 - DEMEYER Marc BEL 031 - DE
WITTE Ronald BEL 032 - DUCREUX Daniel FRA 033 - ESCLASSAN Jacques FRA 034 - ESPERANZA Jésus ESP 035
- FUENTE Jose-Manuel ESP 036 - GAIDA Alfred GER 037 - GALDOS Francisco ESP 038 - GANDARIAS Andres
ESP 039 - GENESTE Noël FRA 040 - GENET Jean-Pierre FRA 041 - GENTHON Charles FRA 042 - GILSON Roger
LUX 043 - GODEFROOT Walter BEL 044 - GOMEZ-LUCAS José ESP 045 - GONZALES Félix ESP 046 -
GONZALEZ-LINARES José-Antonio ESP 047 - GRANDE José ESP 048 - GRELIN René FRA 049 - GROSSKOST Charly
FRA 050 - GUIMARD Cyrille FRA 051 - HEZARD Yves FRA 052 - HOBAN Barry GBR 053 - HOCHART Jacques FRA
054 - HOUBRECHTS Tony BEL 055 - JANBROERS Ben NED 056 - JULIEN Ferdinand FRA 057 - KELLENERS Wim NED
058 - KREKELS Jan NED 059 - LABOURDETTE Bernard FRA 060 - LARGEAU Jean-Claude FRA 061 - LAZCANO
Santiago ESP 062 - LOPEZ-CARRIL Vicente ESP 063 - MANZANEQUE Jésus ESP 064 - MARTELOZZO Pierre FRA
065 - MARTIN Raymond FRA 066 - MARTINEZ Mariano FRA 067 - MARTINS José POR 068 - MARTOS Antonio POR
069 - MELERO Carlos ESP 070 - MENDES Fernando POR 071 - MENENDEZ Antonio ESP 072 - MILLARD Joël FRA
073 - MINTKIEWICZ Robert FRA 074 - MOLLET André FRA 075 - MONEYRON Gérard FRA 076 - MORTENSEN Leif
DEN 077 - MOURIOUX Jacky FRA 078 - NASSEN Pieter BEL 079 - NOELS Ludo BEL 080 - NOGUES Alain FRA 081
- OCANA Luis ESP 082 - OLIVEIRA Herculano POR 083 - OVION Régis FRA 084 - PARENTEAU Jean-Pierre FRA
085 - PEFFGEN Wilfried GER 086 - PERIN Michel FRA 087 - PINTENS Georges BEL 088 - PLANCKAERT Walter
BEL 089 - PODESTA Richard FRA 090 - POLLENTIER Michel BEL 091 - POULIDOR Raymond FRA 092 - PRINSEN
Wim NED 093 - PUSTJENS Mathieu NED 094 - RIOTTE Raymond FRA 095 - ROQUES Michel FRA 096 - ROUXEL
Charly FRA 097 - SANQUER Jean Jacques FRA 098 - SANTY Alain FRA 099 - SANTY Guy FRA 100 - SCHEPERS
Wim NED 101 - SCHLECK Johnny LUX 102 - TABAK Tino NED 103 - TAMAMES Augustin ESP 104 - TEIRLINCK
***** BEL 105 - THEVENET Bernard FRA 106 - TOLLET Claude FRA 107 - TORRES Damaso ESP 108 - TORRES
Pedro ESP 109 - TSCHAN Jürgen GER 110 - VAN CAUTER Gustave BEL 111 - VAN DER LEEUW Théo NED 112 -
VAN IMPE Lucien BEL 113 - VAN MARCKE Ronny BEL 114 - VAN NESTE ***** BEL 115 - VAN ROESBROECK
Gustave BEL 116 - VANSPRINGEL Herman BEL 117 - VAN STAEYEN Ludo BEL 118 - VAN VLIERBERGHE Albert BEL
119 - VASSEUR Sylvain FRA 120 - VEERBECK Frans BEL 121 - VERSTRAETEN Eddy BEL 122 - VIANEN Gérard
NED 123 - VIEJO José-Luis ESP 124 - VRANCKEN Jo NED 125 - WRIGHT Michaël GBR 126 - ZOETEMELK Joop
NED 127 - ZUBERO Luis ESP 128 - ZURANO Juan ESP
 
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:...
>
> "Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >

> > >
> > > The dude has spent most of his adult life living in his mother's basement, and almost every
> > > waking hour on the bike. I'm not sure his failure to procreate has been by choice.
> >
> > He's gotta be the GREATEST Rider then. Easily.
> >
>
How can you say he's the GREATEST Rider when he hasn't pulled a 1500 lb. trailer over the Rockies or
thru Death Valley?
 
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Below is the start list for the 1973 TdF. Where would Hoj and Megnin
likely
> rank in this group?

In that list, Hoj would be 54th, between Hochart and Houbrechts. Mengin would be 73rd, between
Menendez and Millard.
 
"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > Below is the start list for the 1973 TdF. Where would Hoj and Megnin
> likely
> > rank in this group?
>
> In that list, Hoj would be 54th, between Hochart and Houbrechts. Mengin would be 73rd, between
> Menendez and Millard.
>

There you have it.
 
Carl Sundquist wrote:

> How can you say he's the GREATEST Rider when he hasn't pulled a 1500 lb. trailer over the Rockies
> or thru Death Valley?

My brush with history: I once spent a weekend in Aspen and saw the trailer dudes rig on top of
Independence pass as we were driving over late at night. It seems he was camping out up there for an
extended period. The next day we saw LANCE ride through town in a cold rain looking like he was
headed for Independence pass. Maybe they met each other on the pass that day and argued about who
was the greatest? We also saw Martha Stewart in a book store that day. Maybe she's the greatest?

Bret
 
In article <[email protected]>, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > > Dude, you are one long-winded freak.
> >
> > Since you want to hurl insults, instead why don't you answer the question. It's a very simple
> > question. Is Merck greatest Road racer of all time?
> >
> > Yes or no?
> >
>
> In my opinion, Merckx (why do you insist on misspelling his name?) is the greatest road racer of
> all time. Clearly my comments in my previous post indicated as much.
>
> As for being a long winded freak, I nominate Fat Stevie to google and show how long your average
> post is. That seems to be his forte.

Hey Carl, are you trying to sic one rbr stalker on the other?

Nice...

--
tanx, Howard

Read. Think. Type. Send.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, k?

For some people, quantity IS quality...
 
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