Greg LeMond - Inventor Extraordinaire

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Kurgan Gringion, Aug 8, 2003.

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  1. Benjo Maso

    Benjo Maso Guest

    "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > As for virtual tour winners, I think Jan should be creditied with
    > > 1998.
    > > > If Pantani ever comes clean, lets see it Leblanc has the balls to
    strip
    > > > Pantani of his title, a la Garin.
    > >
    > >
    > > People are smart. They say: have Pantani and Ullrich ever tested
    positive
    > > during the Tour of 1998? No. Have Pantani and Ullrich been tested? A
    lot.
    > >
    > > Benjo Maso
    >
    > Which is why Pantani would have to come clean voluntarily ( like Raskolnikov) of be pressured into
    > it like Virenque was. I'm not holding
    my
    > breath.

    Don't you think that Ullrich should have to come clearly as well?

    Benjo Maso
     


  2. "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > What strange is why Lemond failed to mention the use Tri bar extensions. This the only one he
    > first pioneered.

    The first cyclists to use them in high-level bike racing were members of the 7-Eleven team in the
    Tour du Pont or Tour de Trump in 1989 -- where I think one of them used them to win the overall.
    LeMond was there, saw them, and decided to use them.

    JT

    --
    *******************************************
    NB: reply-to address is munged

    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    *******************************************
     
  3. > Only four? In an interview with a dutch newspaper he told he considered himself also as the
    > virtual winner of the Tour's of 1997 and 1998. So that makes six.

    So if LeMond has 6 virtual TDF wins, that makes Armstrong 1 shy of Greg.
     
  4. Chris

    Chris Guest

    I don't think we should take Lemond's page literally (I hope not, anyway). I believe Greg is making
    the point that he was the first rider to not just invent these (because he didn't), but he was the
    first to readily try new technologies. If nothing else, he helped to speed up cycling's
    modernization. Having said that, here's my $0.02

    > > Greg LeMond - Legacy Of Racing Innovation 1980 Superlight frame

    What exactly is Superlight frame?

    > > 1981 Elevated seat position

    I don't think so...Lemond acknowledges Guimard for revising his position.

    > > 1984 Cycling computer
    Maybe

    > >, aero bike,

    Doubtful

    > > aero helmet

    Not

    > > 1985 Oakley sports shield sunglasses,
    I could see this...

    > >heart rate monitor

    HR monitors were pre-Lemond for sure. Perhaps he was the first big star (bigger than Moser, at
    least) to embrace them.

    > > 1986 Clipless pedals

    Not

    > , carbon frames,

    Man, Greg is going overboard here...

    > Giro helmets

    He definately helped them make a big leap. When Lemond won the '89 Tour, everyone I knew wanted a
    giro helmet.

    > > 1987 Carbon fork

    Greg was probably the first big star to embrace these as well, though, I've heard those old TVT
    forks flexed more than body builder on stage.

    > > 1989 Floating pedals

    Time

    Aero handlebars

    Again, Lemond used this stuff to great effect (and fame), but I believe Profile had the first modern
    clip on. They somehow got scooped by Scott on the patent. Anyway, Julich was using these in the Tour
    de Trump in '89 and Lemond wasn't.

    WAIT! So Bobby Julich is the innovator here...maybe not.

    > > 1991 Road racing suspension fork, titanium frame

    And whens the last time someone has one a major race using one of these?

    > > 1992 Electronic shifting,

    What?

    > down-loadable bike computer

    > He probably does not even know that Koechlie was doing this from the time Greg won his first Tour

    Yeah, I think Kurgan is on here. Having met Paul, I can say he has data going back to the 70's!
    Sorry Greg, your old mentor scooped you.

    So, perhaps in a few more years Lemond will admit to inventing the internet...but for now he has his
    hands full with cycling history...

    CH
     
  5. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > As for virtual tour winners, I think Jan should be creditied
    with
    > > > 1998.
    > > > > If Pantani ever comes clean, lets see it Leblanc has the balls to
    > strip
    > > > > Pantani of his title, a la Garin.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > People are smart. They say: have Pantani and Ullrich ever tested
    > positive
    > > > during the Tour of 1998? No. Have Pantani and Ullrich been tested? A
    > lot.
    > > >
    > > > Benjo Maso
    > >
    > > Which is why Pantani would have to come clean voluntarily ( like Raskolnikov) of be pressured
    > > into it like Virenque was. I'm not holding
    > my
    > > breath.
    >
    > Don't you think that Ullrich should have to come clearly as well?
    >
    > Benjo Maso

    Why?! Jan doesn't use drugs any more than Armstrong does. ;-)
     
  6. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > In the advertising industry it's called "puffing." There is a fine
    > line
    > > where it becomes false advertising. There is a lot of puff on Lemond's
    > site.
    >
    >
    >
    > I'd say some of those items cross the line, namely:
    >
    >
    > superlightweight frame elevated seat position aero bike floating pedals titanium frame

    There is one way to find out. File a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission for false and
    deceptive advertising.

    > Those are just the ones I'm sure about. Some of the others may be pure hyperbole also.
    >
    > With all that's on his list you'd think he was the second coming of Tulio Campagnolo.

    Lets hope not. Tullio thought index shifting was a passing fad and put Campy behind Shimano
    for years.
     
  7. Crankbreaker

    Crankbreaker Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Check this out:
    >
    > http://www.lemondfitness.com/meetgreg.htm
    >
    > Greg LeMond - Legacy Of Racing Innovation 1980 Superlight frame 1981 Elevated seat position 1984
    > Cycling computer, aero bike, aero helmet 1985 Oakley sports shield sunglasses, heart rate monitor
    > 1986 Clipless pedals, carbon frames, Giro helmets 1987 Carbon fork 1989 Floating pedals, aero
    > handlebars 1991 Road racing suspension fork, titanium frame 1992 Electronic shifting,
    > down-loadable bike computer
    >
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > That takes a lot of gall.
    >
    >

    I am not a master of the English language but I don't see the words Invented or Patented or
    Architected or Built or Developed or Pooped outta his large imagination. I do see "Legacy of Racing
    innovation" which works for me as LeMond used a lot of gear in the Euro peloton before anyone else
    of import and due to his stature this led to rapid advancements that were adopted a peloton trying
    to figure out how to beat LeMond. He was an early and enthusiastic adopter of technology and
    techniques that the Euro community not only may have taken years to adopt but may have never
    adopted. Took an outsider to do it and he did it, kudos to him for shaking the tree. My gripe is
    that he didn't list ice cream (his biggest contribution to the Peloton) or decent living wages as
    some of his contributions.
     
  8. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "CrankBreaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > Check this out:
    > >
    > > http://www.lemondfitness.com/meetgreg.htm
    > >
    > > Greg LeMond - Legacy Of Racing Innovation 1980 Superlight frame 1981 Elevated seat position 1984
    > > Cycling computer, aero bike, aero helmet 1985 Oakley sports shield sunglasses, heart rate
    > > monitor 1986 Clipless pedals, carbon frames, Giro helmets 1987 Carbon fork 1989 Floating pedals,
    > > aero handlebars 1991 Road racing suspension fork, titanium frame 1992 Electronic shifting,
    > > down-loadable bike computer
    > >
    > >
    > > <snip>
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > That takes a lot of gall.
    > >
    > >
    >
    > I am not a master of the English language but I don't see the words Invented or Patented or
    > Architected or Built or Developed or Pooped outta his large imagination. I do see "Legacy of
    > Racing innovation" which works for me as LeMond used a lot of gear in the Euro peloton before
    > anyone else of import and due to his stature this led to rapid advancements that were adopted a
    > peloton trying to figure out how to beat LeMond. He was an early and enthusiastic adopter of
    > technology and techniques that the Euro community not only may have taken years to adopt but may
    > have never adopted. Took an outsider to do it and he did it, kudos to him for shaking the tree. My
    > gripe is that he didn't list ice cream (his biggest contribution to the Peloton) or decent living
    > wages as some of his contributions.

    Nor does he list the subtle cuisine of Taco Bell. :)
     
  9. Carl Sundquist

    Carl Sundquist New Member

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    Tullio died in 1983. Shimano didn't introduce index shifting for another 2-3 years.
     
  10. Dave Clary

    Dave Clary Guest

    On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 14:30:45 +0000 (UTC), CrankBreaker <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"K I am not a master of the English language but I don't see the words Invented or Patented or
    >Architected or Built or Developed or Pooped outta his large imagination. I do see "Legacy of
    >Racing innovation" which works for me as LeMond used a lot of gear in the Euro peloton before
    >anyone else of import and due to his stature this led to rapid advancements that were adopted a
    >peloton trying to figure out how to beat LeMond. He was an early and enthusiastic adopter of
    >technology and techniques that the Euro community not only may have taken years to adopt but may
    >have never adopted.

    Well said (even if not masterful). :) That's the way I took it.

    Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget:
    http://www.politicsandprotest.org
     
  11. On 8/9/03 9:53 AM, in article [email protected], "Carl Sundquist"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > B. Lafferty wrote:
    >>>
    >>> With all that's on his list you'd think he was the second coming of Tulio Campagnolo.
    >> Lets hope not. Tullio thought index shifting was a passing fad and put Campy behind Shimano
    >> for years.
    >
    >
    >
    > Tullio died in 1983. Shimano didn't introduce index shifting for another 2-3 years.

    Suntour introduced 5-speed "click" shifting in 1969.

    http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/standard.xml?vpID=27

    Shimano introduced their Positron index shifting in 1977, and Suntour introduced the Mighty Click
    rear derailleur in 1980.

    http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/page35.htm

    Shimano didn't POPULARIZE index shifting until they introduced SIS with the 1985 Dura Ace group.

    --
    Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum
    pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti
    ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe
    dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
     
  12. Carl Sundquist <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > B. Lafferty wrote:
    > > >
    > > > With all that's on his list you'd think he was the second coming of Tulio Campagnolo.
    > > Lets hope not. Tullio thought index shifting was a passing fad and put Campy behind
    > > Shimano for years.
    >
    >
    >
    > Tullio died in 1983. Shimano didn't introduce index shifting for another 2-3 years.

    Actually index shifting was invented by Simplex almost ten years before Shimano. What is strange
    they never came out with a product. Simplex had good products but for some reason they were hung up
    on using plastic parts in their derailurs.
     
  13. "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > > What strange is why Lemond failed to mention the use Tri bar extensions. This the only one he
    > > first pioneered.
    >
    > The first cyclists to use them in high-level bike racing were members of the 7-Eleven team in the
    > Tour du Pont or Tour de Trump in 1989 -- where I think one of them used them to win the overall.
    > LeMond was there, saw them, and decided to use them.
    >

    IIRC, the US TTT squad used them in the '88 Olympics.
     
  14. "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:BB5AC64C.A74D%[email protected]...
    > On 8/9/03 9:53 AM, in article [email protected], "Carl Sundquist"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > B. Lafferty wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>> With all that's on his list you'd think he was the second coming of Tulio Campagnolo.
    > >> Lets hope not. Tullio thought index shifting was a passing fad and put Campy behind Shimano
    > >> for years.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Tullio died in 1983. Shimano didn't introduce index shifting for another 2-3 years.
    >
    >
    > Suntour introduced 5-speed "click" shifting in 1969.
    >
    > http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/standard.xml?vpID=27
    >
    > Shimano introduced their Positron index shifting in 1977, and Suntour introduced the Mighty Click
    > rear derailleur in 1980.
    >
    > http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/page35.htm
    >
    > Shimano didn't POPULARIZE index shifting until they introduced SIS with
    the
    > 1985 Dura Ace group.
    >

    Oops.

    However (in a weak effort to save face) didn't Positron require that weird Front Freewheel System?
    The crank/bb contained the freewheel and you really could shift while you were coasting because the
    rear cogs were fixed to the hub and the chainrings ratcheted around the crankset.

    Anyway, thanks for the historical correction Steven.
     
  15. "CrankBreaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    >
    > I am not a master of the English language but I don't see the words Invented or Patented or
    > Architected or Built or Developed or Pooped outta his large imagination. I do see "Legacy of
    > Racing innovation" which works for me as LeMond used a lot of gear in the Euro peloton before
    > anyone else of import and due to his stature this led to rapid advancements that were adopted a
    > peloton trying to figure out how to beat LeMond. He was an early and enthusiastic adopter of
    > technology and techniques that the Euro community not only may have taken years to adopt but may
    > have never adopted. Took an outsider to do it and he did it, kudos to him for shaking the tree. My
    > gripe is that he didn't list ice cream (his biggest contribution to the Peloton) or decent living
    > wages as some of his contributions.

    Dumbass -

    He was not the first to use some of that stuff, like "superlightweight frame" or "elevated seat
    position".
     
  16. Roger Ramjet

    Roger Ramjet Guest

    Too bad he was not allowed to strap a motor to his fat ass during the latter part of his career. He
    may have won a couple more tours.

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Check this out:
    >
    > http://www.lemondfitness.com/meetgreg.htm
    >
    > Greg LeMond - Legacy Of Racing Innovation 1980 Superlight frame 1981 Elevated seat position 1984
    > Cycling computer, aero bike, aero helmet 1985 Oakley sports shield sunglasses, heart rate monitor
    > 1986 Clipless pedals, carbon frames, Giro helmets 1987 Carbon fork 1989 Floating pedals, aero
    > handlebars 1991 Road racing suspension fork, titanium frame 1992 Electronic shifting,
    > down-loadable bike computer
    >
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > That takes a lot of gall.
     
  17. never_doped

    never_doped Banned

    Joined:
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    0
    The mind tends to repaint history in a way that allows us to view ourselves in the most favorable light. We all become more signifigant in the twilight and as long as there is an audience.

    Kurgan, there is very little that doesn't have to do with doping in this sport or any sport if you pull your head out of the sand or your ass or where ever it happens to be today. The crotch of a dingo on the set of "Australian Farmlove 4"?
     
  18. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    You are very cruel.

    "Roger Ramjet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Too bad he was not allowed to strap a motor to his fat ass during the
    latter
    > part of his career. He may have won a couple more tours.
    >
    > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:F7QYa.11149$j[email protected]...
    > > Check this out:
    > >
    > > http://www.lemondfitness.com/meetgreg.htm
    > >
    > > Greg LeMond - Legacy Of Racing Innovation 1980 Superlight frame 1981 Elevated seat position 1984
    > > Cycling computer, aero bike, aero helmet 1985 Oakley sports shield sunglasses, heart rate
    > > monitor 1986 Clipless pedals, carbon frames, Giro helmets 1987 Carbon fork 1989 Floating pedals,
    > > aero handlebars 1991 Road racing suspension fork, titanium frame 1992 Electronic shifting,
    > > down-loadable bike computer
    > >
    > >
    > > <snip>
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > That takes a lot of gall.
    > >
    > >
     
  19. "never_doped" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > The mind tends to repaint history in a way that allows us to view ourselves in the most favorable
    > light. We all become more signifigant in the twilight and as long as there is an audience.
    >
    > Kurgan, there is very little that doesn't have to do with doping in this sport or any sport if you
    > pull your head out of the sand or your ass or where ever it happens to be today. The crotch of a
    > dingo on the set of "Australian Farmlove 4"?


    Not every single thread is a doping thread.
     
  20. Roger Ramjet

    Roger Ramjet Guest

    Sorry, but I was always a big fan of GL but got a bit tired of all his excuses he made during the
    latter part of his career when it was obvious his problems was added kilos.

    "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > You are very cruel.
    >
    > "Roger Ramjet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Too bad he was not allowed to strap a motor to his fat ass during the
    > latter
    > > part of his career. He may have won a couple more tours.
    > >
    > > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Check this out:
    > > >
    > > > http://www.lemondfitness.com/meetgreg.htm
    > > >
    > > > Greg LeMond - Legacy Of Racing Innovation 1980 Superlight frame 1981 Elevated seat position
    > > > 1984 Cycling computer, aero bike, aero helmet 1985 Oakley sports shield sunglasses, heart rate
    > > > monitor 1986 Clipless pedals, carbon frames, Giro helmets 1987 Carbon fork 1989 Floating
    > > > pedals, aero handlebars 1991 Road racing suspension fork, titanium frame 1992 Electronic
    > > > shifting, down-loadable bike computer
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > <snip>
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > That takes a lot of gall.
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >
     
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