Greg Lemond, Lance Armstong, Eddie Mercxx

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by saherring, Mar 29, 2005.

  1. saherring

    saherring New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Winning grand tours does not make one the greatest cyclist of all time, just the greatest cyclist when it comes to grand tours. Armstrong won very few one day races. Mercxx won over 500 races including all 3 grand tours and many one day races...many of them 2 & 3 times as well. His overall record is unmatched. He destroyed opponents without the help of a team in many instances. Also, when Lemond beat Fignon by 8 seconds, he only had only 2 team mates left in the race during most of the last week. I highly doubt if Armstrong could have won seven tours without his team. In fact he has credited his team with his ability to win 7 tours and has stated on numerous occasions that he could not have done it without the team. An all-around record must be considered in determining who was the greatest...not just winning the tour de france.
     


  2. SaintAndrew

    SaintAndrew New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    0
    jigga please *pfft* he only won the TdF, and of the 5 and up winners, (besides indurain who spent like 8 years as a domestique prior to winning) he was the only one not discouraged from riding it.

    now i think he could have won the giro and the tour (he would never risk that though), but he'd have almost no shot at the giro/tour/world's, and further he wasn't bold enough to try to do it so fuck him.

    btw thanx for bumping this year-old, useless thread.
     
  3. Imback

    Imback New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Eddy Merckx was the greatest cyclist ever, Armstrong is the greatest tour de france rider ever, however, I believe his TDF only attitude didn't help the sport at all.

    I am curious on how he found such a really good winning formula, maybe his hormone replacement therapy after cancer helped with the recovery, and Dr. Ferrari gave him some really good vitamins :D
     
  4. ishiwata

    ishiwata New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're absolutely correct!

    (I'm assuming you meant "Eddy Merckx" where you wrote "Lance Armstrong.")
     
  5. youngda9

    youngda9 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're quite the ambassador for the sport, aren't you. Someone comes in here looking for history, opinions and lively debate and you tell them to f-off. If you don't have anything to say, stop wasting you time and the rest of ours. You're a jack-ass.

    Why don't you go to the post in this forum where the 15 year old kid wants to know about getting into racing. Surely this has been covered elsewhere on the internet, books, etc. Tell him to f-off also and stop wasting everyone's time.

    Ahhh...just shut the forum down, no need to chat to people. What would you do with yourself...1800+ posts has to take a lot of time. If your time is so precious, then don't bother taking one hand off your mouse to type how your time is being wasted, just click to the next post.
     
  6. Jacob24

    Jacob24 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    I belive that lance is the best cyclist of all time, but not the most accomplished, if you look at how he won the tours, with total dominance, and how much of a superior cyclist he was to his peers, that is the only conclusion I can draw. This is even more the case considering the new information that the racers he dominated were doping, something I assume Eddie Mercxx never faced. Many of the other cyclists mentioned in this thread have more overall victories than Lance does, but you can't compare Lance to them because he never attempted to win many of the races others on this forum use as proof that Lance was inferior. he simply didn't have the same goal. I'm sure that If Lance was to attempt to win as many races as he could, as opposed to focusing on dominating one race he would be inarguably the most accomplished cyclist of all time
    If you want proof for his being the best cyclist of all time look to how he won the tours, never showing weakness except one time when he cracked.
    also for those of us who like numbers, look at lances lactic threshold, his VO2 max, and wattage, ect.
    You are free to disagree, but in my opinion, all of the things I listed above prove him to be the greatest of all time, bar none
     
  7. ishiwata

    ishiwata New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    actually, palmares, if anything, prove who is the best.

    actually, riders in the 60s/70s were doped (tommy simpson ring a bell?). and merckx was almost certainly on stuff himself.

    actually, merckx would have won more tours de france if he hadn't been assaulted during the race by spectators, or if he put more of a focus on winning the tour over winning absolutely everything.

    actually, this topic is boring me to death.
     
  8. mitosis

    mitosis New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    0
    actually, if you look at the riders who finished immediately behind Armstrong last year and notice they have been discredited (without proof in some cases) for doping, it is even more difficult to believe LA didn't dope.
    actually.
     
  9. EvilJediJ

    EvilJediJ New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    The only thing we have close to an objective comparison between era's is the World Hour Record. In the future we will be able to compare riders to our current generation easier, due to things like power meters.

    Even though changes in aerodynamics certainly made the world hour record up to who had the fastest bike just as much as the fastest rider, scientists have been able to ascertain the power readings of riders including Merckx. When all is said and done it goes like this...

    The best performance in the hour record ever is Tony Rominger, second is Chris Boardman(1996). Faaaar behind these two in third place is Eddie Merckx and in 4th is Indurain. The incredible thing about Merckx is that he broke the hour record in 1972. That same year he won 5 classics, the Giro and the Tour!!! Then he still had the muster set the world hour record in October!! Simply the greatest year a cyclist has ever had. Even after that hellish season he still put in a better time trial performance than Indurain, who was at the peak of his Time trial dominance at the time.


    Recently, the UCI changed the rules of the aerodynamics of the bicycle so that riders would have to have similar bikes to that of Eddie Merckx. Chris Boardman was able to beat Merckx by 9 meters! But even still his bike was no doubt more aero than Merckx. Of course Boardman was at the end of his career and had already been starting to feel the effects of osteoporosis. Ondrej Sosenka, was able to beat the system by using a flywheel. His record should not count.

    Lance dedicated a team of scientists called the F1 group for his attempt to break the hour record. he was obviously training for, we have seen the videos of him on track bikes in the wind tunnel. But he called off his attempt. Did he find out in training that he wouldn't be up to the task? We most likely will never know.
     
  10. Imback

    Imback New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    But you know that you are innocent until proven guilty, so LA is innocent just like OJ Simpson...:p
     
  11. SaintAndrew

    SaintAndrew New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    0
    ree-hee-heally? that is total bullshit.
     
  12. lonympics

    lonympics New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
  13. Chuck Jazz

    Chuck Jazz New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    A quick post on the on going debate of the ingnorance of the populous of America in regards to cycling history.

    1. Anything the gets lazy Americans off their asses and in the saddle where the might lose some of the 40 extra pounds most of them carry is a great thing! LANCE DID THAT!

    2. Any man who can overcome testicular cance to become and elite athelete for a second time in his life has to be considered among the all-time greats! If only because of his shear determination to regain his status! GUYS HE LOST A TESTICLE AND BOUNCED BACK BETTER THAN EVER THINK ABOUT IT!!!! Again Lance did that!

    3. Last, any man who motivates a nations team of cyclists to train at a level that had never been acheived before in that countries history in the sport is a legend! Lance is a legend because of his presence, passion, determaination and inspiration. All the above mentioned men were phenominal cyclists perhaps "The Canibal" was the best his tactics and vicious nature aside! However Lance transends the sport and is more, that is why he will be remembered as the greatest wins and losses aside! The man is an ICON!

    4. Without Lance there is no Floyd and think what you will of his situation but Floyd is one hell of a cyclist with grit and determaination!

    -Chew on this for awhile while I go ride some hills!
     
  14. micron

    micron New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    1
    without Lance there is no Floyd? Don't suppose you really meant what that implies ;)
     
  15. 1timepro

    1timepro New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Without Lemond there is no Lance. Who do you think inspired Lance and other Americans in his gerneration to take up cycling?
    Face, Lance is not the best cyclist ever. So just admit that you have a crush on him and want to suck on his one ball and let's be done with it.
     
  16. Chuck Jazz

    Chuck Jazz New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dude! Don't insult me like that! I happen to like female cyclists if you wish to stoop so low. I am not arguing who is better in terms of skill I am arguing who means more to the sport in terms of accomplishment and without a doubt that is Armstrong. Who, incidentally, I routed against in his last three tours. I never said that i am his biggest fan however what he has done for the sport goes without question! Lemond was a great rider who has become Bedfellows with Dick Pound and it is unfortunately part of what is hurting pro cycling! If Lemond wasn't soooo jealous of Armstrong maybe pro-cycling wouldn't be soooo messed up. These Crusades against good riders (Floyd, Basso, Ulrich, Hamilton ) are unfortunate and unwarrented the cyclists need a stronger Union and a collective bargaining agreement that redefines the way testing and negative press will be delt with. Basically someone needs to put a muzzle on Dick Pound!


    Nuff Said
     
  17. mitosis

    mitosis New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    0
    Basically, someone needs to do something serious about drugs in the peloton. Then we wouldn't have to debate Armstrong, Basso, Landis etc because they wouldn't have such high profiles. Unless of course they would be stand out's without the drugs - but for them at least we will never know.
     
  18. BillM

    BillM New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you always an asshole or just when it comes to cycling?
     
Loading...
Loading...