GRR eat Bike!

[Bill Hamilton]

"Wile E.Coyote" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Funny and weird...my wife and I were saying...Gee, you what we need here is some Polystyrene to
> pack into the wheel case and just then a bunch of white Polystyrene blew onto our
> balcony......hmmm? I looked up to the heavens and yelled...WHAT no Bubble Pad and 2 sheets of
> Bubble pad floated down and I grabbed it. I then (seeing this) as a gift from the Big Guy ( looked
> towards the heavens and yelled)....I could use a new Optima Baron too. Nothing else fell from the
> sky....maybe I should have asked for a bent made in America instead....because as we all know the
> BIG GUY only loves America. ----------------------------------------------

You really sure you wanted to catch that, falling from a few hundred feet and all?

-Bill

 

[Tom Sherman]

"Wile E.Coyote" wrote:
> ... Funny and weird...my wife and I were saying...Gee, you what we need here is some Polystyrene
> to pack into the wheel case and just then a bunch of white Polystyrene blew onto our
> balcony......hmmm? I looked up to the heavens and yelled...WHAT no Bubble Pad and 2 sheets of
> Bubble pad floated down and I grabbed it. I then (seeing this) as a gift from the Big Guy ( looked
> towards the heavens and yelled)....I could use a new Optima Baron too. Nothing else fell from the
> sky....maybe I should have asked for a bent made in America instead....because as we all know the
> BIG GUY only loves America.

Joshua,

Since you bring up the subject of religion, what does the Talmud say about lusting after other
peoples orphan tadpole trikes?

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[Wile E.Coyote]

Last week someone dropped a SEKINE that landed next to my balcony and it is now mine. A Sekine was a
fairly popular mid-price racing bike in the mid 70s, similar to a Nishiki. My 23 storey apt tower
has 30 or so Grad students (4 with recumbents btw) and in late April they begin to move
away...having finally graduated. The Sekine was someone just getting ready to move and figured why
use the elevator when gravity is sooo much faster. People tend to leave stuff behind when they move
and deposit that which they no longer wish to transport to their new abode near my balcony. My being
on the ground floor, I go into packrat mode and collect what I can use. In my world free is way
better than having to buy something. The Sekine will be cleaned up and donated to someone needing a
DF. The polystyrene and bubble pad that came down earlier probably just blew off someone's balcony.
It would have been nice to think the Big Guy and I are getting along again, but since no Optima
bents came down, I guess HE has not added me to his Xmas card mailing list yet. Besides HE doesn't
work on Saturdays and my catching an Optima from the heavens would be work and with my luck fire and
brimstone would quickly accompany the bent...HE moves in mysterious ways you know....hmmm maybe HE
rides a bent and that would explain why he moves in those mysterious ways.
---------------
---------------------------------------------
"Bill Hamilton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Wile E.Coyote" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> >
> > Funny and weird...my wife and I were saying...Gee, you know what we need here is some
> > Polystyrene to pack into the wheel case and just then a bunch of white Polystyrene blew onto our
> > balcony......hmmm? I looked up to the heavens and yelled...WHAT no Bubble Pad and 2 sheets of
> > Bubble pad floated down and I grabbed it. I then (seeing this) as a gift from the Big Guy (
> > looked towards the heavens and yelled)....I could use a new Optima Baron too. Nothing else fell
> > from the sky....maybe I should have asked for a bent made in America instead....because as we
> > all know the BIG GUY only loves America. ----------------------------------------------
>
> You really sure you wanted to catch that, falling from a few hundred feet and all?
>
> -Bill

 

[Wile E.Coyote]

Never covered that one in my Yeshivah, but IF my neighours wife was sitting in said Dragonflyer and
my neighbours wife btw is 5'.11" tall, thin, natural lite blonde, light blue eyes, she is a recent
immigrant from Poland named Eva and she loves to wear leather mini-skirts and has a rack like you
wouldn't believe...then although not in the Talmud...I'm sure there would be a problem. The sages
really hated letting us have any real fun. I have an entire book on the topic of Lust, just never
had the time to open it. Apart from the way the Sunset & Dragonflyer builder dissappeared into the
night with some deposited $, still think if he returned and started up producing those 2
designs...he'd have a hot seller on his hands. Amazes me no other trike builders have copied the
Dragonflyer...although the Optima Rider did come close to copying the rear suspension.
----------------------------
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Wile E.Coyote" wrote:
> > ... Funny and weird...my wife and I were saying...Gee, you what we need here
is
> > some Polystyrene to pack into the wheel case and just then a bunch of
white
> > Polystyrene blew onto our balcony......hmmm? I looked up to the heavens and yelled...WHAT no
> > Bubble Pad and 2 sheets
of
> > Bubble pad floated down and I grabbed it. I then (seeing this) as a gift from the Big Guy (
> > looked towards the
heavens
> > and yelled)....I could use a new Optima Baron too. Nothing else fell from the sky....maybe I
> > should have asked for a bent
made
> > in America instead....because as we all know the BIG GUY only loves
America.
>
> Joshua,
>
> Since you bring up the subject of religion, what does the Talmud say about lusting after other
> peoples orphan tadpole trikes?
>
> Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[Tom Sherman]

"Wile E.Coyote" wrote:
>
> ... Apart from the way the Sunset & Dragonflyer builder dissappeared into the night with some
> deposited $....

I have to question the wording of this statement, since it implies that Shean Bjoralt deliberately
stole from those who placed orders (with a 50% down payment) near the end of Earth Cycles as a
viable business. Another scenario is that Shean used the money coming in from new orders to try to
keep the business running - therefore when he disappeared from the scene, he was no longer in
possession of the money.

I believe that most would agree that there is a distinct moral difference between making the mistake
of taking additional orders when the business was no longer viable [1] and taking orders with the
intent to defraud others of their money.

[1] Knowing this, and emotionally accepting it are two different things.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[Bentbiker]

I agree Tom, as long as the individual, makes restitution at some point, if legally obligated
to or not.

Tom Sherman wrote:
> "Wile E.Coyote" wrote:
>
>>... Apart from the way the Sunset & Dragonflyer builder dissappeared into the night with some
>>deposited $....
>
>
> I have to question the wording of this statement, since it implies that Shean Bjoralt deliberately
> stole from those who placed orders (with a 50% down payment) near the end of Earth Cycles as a
> viable business. Another scenario is that Shean used the money coming in from new orders to try to
> keep the business running - therefore when he disappeared from the scene, he was no longer in
> possession of the money.
>
> I believe that most would agree that there is a distinct moral difference between making the
> mistake of taking additional orders when the business was no longer viable [1] and taking orders
> with the intent to defraud others of their money.
>
> [1] Knowing this, and emotionally accepting it are two different things.
>
> Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[Skip]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Wile E.Coyote" wrote:
> >
> > ... Apart from the way the Sunset & Dragonflyer builder dissappeared into the night with some
> > deposited $....
>
> I have to question the wording of this statement, since it implies that Shean Bjoralt deliberately
> stole from those who placed orders (with a 50% down payment) near the end of Earth Cycles as a
> viable business. Another scenario is that Shean used the money coming in from new orders to try to
> keep the business running - therefore when he disappeared from the scene, he was no longer in
> possession of the money.
>
> I believe that most would agree that there is a distinct moral difference between making the
> mistake of taking additional orders when the business was no longer viable [1] and taking orders
> with the intent to defraud others of their money.
>
> [1] Knowing this, and emotionally accepting it are two different things.
>

I have no knowledge of this situation, but Tom is probably has this right on how Earth Cycles went
down. If the intent was to make off with other people's money then building labor intensive low
racers wouldn't be exactly be the hot ticket. I suspect he was selling the bikes for less than
their true cost. Each bike he made and sold put him a bit deeper in the hole without him realizing
it at the time.

If he declared bankruptcy and went through bankruptcy court the matter would be settled and
hopefully a lesson learned so he can have another opportunity, if he's up for it, to start over and
do it right. Apparently there's a lot of talent there. I think doing it right would include settling
up with those who lost their deposits. The HPV community is pretty small, but well connected.

skip

 

[Tom Sherman]

skip wrote:
>
> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Wile E.Coyote" wrote:
> > >
> > > ... Apart from the way the Sunset & Dragonflyer builder dissappeared into the night with some
> > > deposited $....
> >
> > I have to question the wording of this statement, since it implies that Shean Bjoralt
> > deliberately stole from those who placed orders (with a 50% down payment) near the end of Earth
> > Cycles as a viable business. Another scenario is that Shean used the money coming in from new
> > orders to try to keep the business running - therefore when he disappeared from the scene, he
> > was no longer in possession of the money.
> >
> > I believe that most would agree that there is a distinct moral difference between making the
> > mistake of taking additional orders when the business was no longer viable [1] and taking orders
> > with the intent to defraud others of their money.
> >
> > [1] Knowing this, and emotionally accepting it are two different things.
> >
>
> I have no knowledge of this situation, but Tom is probably has this right on how Earth Cycles went
> down. If the intent was to make off with other people's money then building labor intensive low
> racers wouldn't be exactly be the hot ticket. I suspect he was selling the bikes for less than
> their true cost. Each bike he made and sold put him a bit deeper in the hole without him realizing
> it at the time....

Having a Dragonflyer and Sunset available for close inspection, I am of the opinion that both must
have been quite labor intensive to build (more so than almost any other commercial bikes/trikes I
have seen [1]). Both also use custom parts (such as Earth Cycles specific Phil Wood hubs
[2]) and I see no evidence of cutting corners anywhere.

[3] The Thebis would certainly be an exception.
[4] Appropriately described by Mark Stonich as "bike jewelry".

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[Mark Stonich]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Having a Dragonflyer and Sunset available for close inspection, I am of the opinion that both must
> have been quite labor intensive to build (more so than almost any other commercial bikes/trikes I
> have seen [1]). Both also use custom parts (such as Earth Cycles specific Phil Wood hubs
> [2]) and I see no evidence of cutting corners anywhere.
>
> [1] The Thebis would certainly be an exception.

The Thebis was in an entirely different class. Once things start to wear out on a Thebis only a
toolroom machinist would have any hope of keeping one alive. And, there are plenty of poorly
designed parts that wear out quickly.

IIRC Anything mechanical that can wear out on a Dragonflyer is an off the shelf (If possibly a bit
hard to find)item. His main obsession was durability. Obsession may be the operative word. I've been
told he had a nervous breakdown.

He was very concerned for the environment, hence the name, EARTHcycles. I don't think he owned a
car, using a trike and trailer to go about 8 miles to fetch his welding tanks. It may have been
even farther to the powdercoaters, but he felt that was a more environmentally friendly finish
than paint.

About the tooling: Shean had several local small investors. They are all bikers, so I doubt anything
useful got scrapped. There has always been some talk about bringing it back. But I don't think
anyone has figured out how to turn a profit without diluting the product or priceing it out of
reach. His Catch-22 was that along with quality and durability, he wanted a product that nearly
anyone could afford. This didn't leave any room for paying the rent.

When we were at InterBike 2000, he had serious discussions with George Lin of Pacific (The people
who build Birdys etc., not the ones who sell "Schwinns" at K-Mart) about having them built in
Taiwan. From what I've seen, I think George's people could have met the quality requirement. And the
cost per unit discussed was very reasonable. But I don't think Shean understood the complexity of
such an undertaking.

I, and a lot of my friends, lost money when Shean went under. (It should be noted that we all seem
to be saddened, not angry, about it.) Shean lost his dreams, the respect of his peers, and an
attractive (Very!!), charming and intelligent girlfriend. Last I heard he's working as a wilderness
guide in Northern Minnestota. Can't imagine he's getting rich.

 

[Wile E.Coyote]

Originally posted by Dave Is Here Appreciate the info guys - thanks. PaPa

--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com http://www.cyclingforums.com

 

[Tom Sherman]

"Wile E.Coyote" wrote:
>
> Mark Thanx for the insightfull look into EARTHcycles and of it's bent builder. I wish Shean well
> in his new occupation, but would also like to see him building his trikes again. I asked my
> framebuilder to replicate the Dragonflyer and build new jigs and after many weeks his comment was
> ...you've got to be kidding?. Have not anything more since.

I do not see anything in the Dragonflyer frame that any competent frame builder should not be able
to duplicate.

Mark Stonich is much more qualified to issue an opinion than I am, however.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[John Riley]

"Wile E.Coyote" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [...]I asked my framebuilder to replicate the Dragonflyer and build new jigs and after many weeks
> his comment was ...you've got to be kidding?. Have not anything more since.

Yeah, but his shop is the size of a single car garage. If he set up for that trike, he wouldn't have
room for anything else, and lets face it, he would rather be working on full suspension mtb's.

johnriley1 (at) rogers.com

 

[Wile E.Coyote]

you've noticed that about the suspension Mtbs too. I tried to explain he should get into doing bents
and Mtbs 50/50, but he finds bents to be somewhat of a mystery still. Took him 10 hours to figure
out how to build the seat and still got it wrong....ended up with a $350.00 USD slingseat
O.E. sells for $150.00. I am probably putting trike building ""on hold" till I can find a welder
more into 7000 series Aluminium. I hate looking for another welder simply because Jim does
fantastic welds and the welds I have seen on some "factory" trikes aren't near as good as his
are. Jim is a great man, his Mtbs are a work of art....now if we can just get him more into
(building) instead of repairing bents.

One other option which I may yet try, would be to outsource sections of the trike design to various
American/European and Canadian welders and assemble the sections in Toronto....anything to avoid
Taiwan. Doing a complete trike like Robert Stein would be cool, but then all you'd be doing is
selling trikes for someone else. Outsourcing would allow me to retain the original design, provide
p.t. incomes, I'd hopefully control material quality and craftsmanship and still come up with a
really nice trike people can afford.

I had hoped to be building/selling trikes this summer, but it took Jim 8 months to do one as-yet
unfinished trike, so now I'll be back to selling only E-Mtbs and E-Folders. I may even return to
riding a dual suspension Mtb and resurrect my CLWB because the streets in Toronto are ripping apart
the trike axles. I had a front SUN Hub shred b4 my eyes going North on Jarvis Street. Gave a whole
new meaning to the term Lean Steer as I rode with one front wheel completely off the trike till I
could get out of the traffic and go back for my wheel.
**************************
"john riley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Wile E.Coyote" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > [...]I asked my framebuilder to replicate the Dragonflyer and build new jigs and after many
> > weeks his comment was ...you've got to be kidding?. Have not anything more since.
>
> Yeah, but his shop is the size of a single car garage. If he set up for that trike, he
> wouldn't have room for anything else, and lets face it, he would rather be working on full
> suspension mtb's.
>
> johnriley1 (at) rogers.com

 

[Mark Stonich]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I do not see anything in the Dragonflyer frame that any competent frame builder should not be able
> to duplicate.
>
> Mark Stonich is much more qualified to issue an opinion than I am, however.

I know some of the finest framebuilders on the planet. Wonderously skilled and usually
multi-talented. However, for them "Thinking outside the box" would be a 70 degree head angle or a
different seat stay attachment.

There is nothing sadder than when someone hires a traditional framebuilder to build a recumbent. The
results are usually beautifully built, and barely functional.

An exception; After building over 1000 uprights, Terry Osell crossed over to the dark side and
builds nothing but 'bents. He can build a complete 'bent frame in a couple of days, with perfectly
finished fillets. When he wanted a trike he bought one. When I asked if he would build his next one
his reply was "What are you, nuts?".

I *could* clone one, especially if I could locate his extremely clever mitering fixtures. But I
certainly wouldn't want to. Pieces in that frame were custom made at machine shops. Inefficent in
one-off mode.

Besides, I'd never build a trike with the paired wheels at the wrong end.

It's fascinating how these few machines stand so large in the minds of HPV'ers. Sort of like the
Tucker automobiles.

 

[Geob]

Caveat: I lost no money in the Earth Cycles demise

> I believe that most would agree that there is a distinct moral difference between making the
> mistake of taking additional orders when the business was no longer viable [1] and taking orders
> with the intent to defraud others of their money.

I have a germ of an idea that with help from ya'll might grow into a fully-formed concept. It goes
sumthin like this:

We (in the USA, don't know about others) live in a society where almost anything is available. We
don't stand in line for tissue paper at the store, or for food or clean water. If our local guys
don't carry what we want we can log-in and order from most anywhere, and have it delivered to our
homes. While not the very highest, we have an enviable quality of life hereabouts (not Maine or
Minnesota maybe
We are affluent. While many market niches are occupied by large
companies that are hard to compete with, still, it is possible for most anyone to go into business
and risk everything you own.

This freedom creates an environment where the little guy, the craftsman, the designer, the idea-man
can try his product in the marketplace. This brings to us all the richness of products and
innovation that we all enjoy.

Our society being the way it is, it takes a lot of capital to develop a product, manufacture it
and market it. The bankruptcy laws are a safety net that benefits us all. There are criminal
penalties for fraud, so I am assuming that a small business that goes bankrupt isn't fraudulent
(yeah, I know this isn't universally true). The laws protect a man from too harsh a penalty for
trying to market a product. He (or she) has lost a big investment, probably their life's savings.
It doesn't benefit society as a whole for this pioneer to also have to live in poverty with an
unbearable debt an their shoulders, with no means to pay it off. Reminds me of the old debtor's
prison idea. Counter-productive. This person who strives to bring a new product to society, or
make an old product 'better, faster, cheaper' serves a valuable function and is important to our
way of life. His contributions should be encouraged or at least the potential be protected by the
bankruptcy laws.

When he takes your money and goes bankrupt, it isn't 'he did this to you' but more like 'we together
have failed in our partnership to make this idea fly'.

 

[Wile E.Coyote]

the reason why trikes stand so big in the minds of HPVrs IMHO is because everyone and his dog has
concentrated for 3 decades on refining the 2 wheel bent and trikes have been pretty well ignored. In
the last maybe 4 years trike designs have begun to take off and now everyone and his dog will be
designing and refining the perfect trike...it is our turn. You are going to soon see lots of trikes
in bentdom and within a few short years the LWB will no longer be what non-bent folk think of 1st
when they hear the word recumbent. The trike market will RULE as us old geezers get tired of doing
Arte Johnsons on SWBs and the safe trike starts to look sooo much better. IF the Dragonflyer and
it's builder appeared tomorrow, both would have a real future that did not exist 3 or 4 years
ago...like Panasonic, they were slightly ahead of their time.
------------------------------------------
"Mark Stonich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > I do not see anything in the Dragonflyer frame that any competent frame builder should not be
> > able to duplicate.
> >
> > Mark Stonich is much more qualified to issue an opinion than I am, however.
>
> I know some of the finest framebuilders on the planet. Wonderously skilled and usually
> multi-talented. However, for them "Thinking outside the box" would be a 70 degree head angle or a
> different seat stay attachment.
>
> There is nothing sadder than when someone hires a traditional framebuilder to build a recumbent.
> The results are usually beautifully built, and barely functional.
>
> An exception; After building over 1000 uprights, Terry Osell crossed over to the dark side and
> builds nothing but 'bents. He can build a complete 'bent frame in a couple of days, with
> perfectly finished fillets. When he wanted a trike he bought one. When I asked if he would build
> his next one his reply was "What are you, nuts?".
>
> I *could* clone one, especially if I could locate his extremely clever mitering fixtures. But I
> certainly wouldn't want to. Pieces in that frame were custom made at machine shops. Inefficent in
> one-off mode.
>
> Besides, I'd never build a trike with the paired wheels at the wrong end.
>
> It's fascinating how these few machines stand so large in the minds of HPV'ers. Sort of like the
> Tucker automobiles.

 

[Mark Stonich]

> "Mark Stonich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > It's fascinating how these few machines stand so large in the minds of HPV'ers. Sort of like the
> > Tucker automobiles.

"Wile E.Coyote" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> the reason why trikes stand so big in the minds of HPVrs IMHO is because everyone and his dog has
> concentrated for 3 decades on refining the 2 wheel bent and trikes have been pretty well ignored.

I wasn't talking about trikes. I meant the Dragonflyer and Sunset. Like the Tucker, the products of
a man who dreamed big and crashed bigger.

> within a few short years the LWB will no longer be what non-bent folk think of 1st when they hear
> the word recumbent.

LWB? Most people think a recumbent is what you ride at a health club.

> The trike market will RULE as us old geezers get tired of doing Arte Johnsons on SWBs and the safe
> trike starts to look sooo much better.

Prediction; What will make the trike market take off will be lightweight deltas. Tadpoles are at
least as refined as 2 wheel bents. The seat/crank/grips/wheels relationship is almost as constrained
as on an upright. The differences among them are subtle, while upright design is all over the map.

Little has been done to capitalize on the advantages of a delta. Despite a crappy seat, 53lb weight
and ridiculous head angle, the EZ-3 may have outsold all other recumbent trikes combined in the US
last year. The aluminum version will bring many, more performance oriented, riders into the fold.
Eventually there will be refined deltas, that will be acceptable to far more people than the trikes
available today.

 

[Wile E.Coyote]

You're pullin my leg..right? You think Delta Trikes are the future...GASP As for you saying that
most people think a Recumbent is what you ride in a Health Club...I guess we hang out with a
different sort of people. I gave a class 2 years ago to Fashion Design students about Recumbent
bicycles and not a single student of around 100 connected a bent to a Health Club and these are
young people who had never seen a bent b4 but all hung out in Health Clubs. I have (never) met
anyone who connected the term Recumbent with an excercise bike...which even surprised me, since I
used to ride those layback reclined exercise bikes but gave up when my cigar ashes kept igniting
my sweats.

I think we have the term Recumbent as a bicycle design style ridden on the road pretty well embedded
into popular language by now....at least up here in the GWN. Funny story here..sorta, my wife went
on and on trying to convince a local bent dealer to start selling the EZ-3 last year at our local
bike trade show and the dealer relented and brought one in. My wife sat on an EZ-3 and said, Nope,
don't like it at all....I want a Tadpole. I got her a tadpole and guess what...I want a Quad and
people wonder why my beard turned white.

Seriously Mark Me thinks that (when) the heaving masses see Tadpoles on city streets on a regular
basis, more than 2 or 3 a year sorta regular. Then you'll see sales of Tadpoles take off in a big
way. I have NEVER seen a Tadpole on the street in Toronto in my 1/4 century bent. I started riding
mine about 5 weeks ago and everytime I park or come to a stop light I draw a crowd. One time a car
came after me...my thinking this was someone I had removed a mirror from on my CLWB, I took off to
escape capture and the guy followed me and damn near drove into me. All he wanted to ask was where
he could demo ride one and he gave me his business card.

In 2 weeks my wife will be riding her tadpole everyday as well...(people will think it is a
conspiracy). If we can get more tadpoles on the road, their popularity will take off. When I
encountered DF cyclists while on my LWB or CLWB I regularly got...Get a REAL bike. When I pull up
beside the same DF cyclists now...I get nothing but...WOW can I try that out?

Seem to remember BROL doing a recent IMHO write up on how Trikes are here and gaining ground fast.

I was (riding suspended junkyard Schwinns) off cliffs and around sand dunes before any company
started building them commercially and calling them Mtbs and look what happened there. Hopefully the
same interest wave will set in for trikes (if) we can make them less costly and safer.

The future is NOT with the Delta format for thinking Adults, only kids can appreciate the joys of
getting to ride in an ambulance after tipping a Delta at high speed in a turn or popping a wheelie
barreling down a hill and suffering spinal damage. One U.S.Senator has his son get crippled on an
EZ-3 and you'll only see an EZ-3 in a Museum. You'd have to really work at popping a wheelie on a
Tadpole and they do roll at speed, but rollbars & seatbelts are going to become the norm pretty soon
for urban riders. AND b4 anyone suggests a Tadpole could be in a Museum too if some kid gets mangled
on one...not likely, because Tadpoles have been around many years, lots of companies have built
them, homebuilders are doing them and (so far) no one has ended up eating breakfast through a straw
after their Tadpole failed.

hmmm am breaking with tradition here, usually I don't make blanket statements that **** people off
till the weekends....oh well.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Mark Stonich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > "Mark Stonich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > It's fascinating how these few machines stand so large in the minds of HPV'ers. Sort of like
> > > the Tucker automobiles.
>
> "Wile E.Coyote" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > the reason why trikes stand so big in the minds of HPVrs IMHO is because everyone and his dog
> > has concentrated for 3 decades on refining the 2
wheel
> > bent and trikes have been pretty well ignored.
>
> I wasn't talking about trikes. I meant the Dragonflyer and Sunset. Like the Tucker, the products
> of a man who dreamed big and crashed bigger.
>
> > within a few short years the LWB will no longer be what non-bent folk think of 1st when they
> > hear the word recumbent.
>
> LWB? Most people think a recumbent is what you ride at a health club.
>
> > The trike market will RULE as us old geezers get tired of doing Arte Johnsons on SWBs and the
> > safe trike starts to look sooo much
better.
>
> Prediction; What will make the trike market take off will be lightweight deltas. Tadpoles are at
> least as refined as 2 wheel bents. The seat/crank/grips/wheels relationship is almost as
> constrained as on an upright. The differences among them are subtle, while upright design is all
> over the map.
>
> Little has been done to capitalize on the advantages of a delta. Despite a crappy seat, 53lb
> weight and ridiculous head angle, the EZ-3 may have outsold all other recumbent trikes combined
> in the US last year. The aluminum version will bring many, more performance oriented, riders into
> the fold. Eventually there will be refined deltas, that will be acceptable to far more people
> than the trikes available today.

 

[Tom Sherman]

Mark Stonich wrote:
>
> ... It's fascinating how these few machines [Earth Cycles Dragonflyer and Sunset] stand so large
> in the minds of HPV'ers. Sort of like the Tucker automobiles.

Mark,

For me the Earth Cycles seat fits better and is more comfortable than any other recumbent seat I
have tried. The most likely possibilities are that it really is a superior seat design, or that I
just happen to share certain physical attributes with Shean Bjoralt (who presumably designed the
seat to be to his liking).

On every bicycle I have ridden, it has felt more or less like a machine I am controlling. For me,
the Sunset feels the least machine like and the most like a natural extension of my body. This is
why I would keep it in preference to any other bicycle. To be fair, of the 18 Sunsets made, only a
few are still with their original owners, so obviously the majority of riders who have tried the
Sunset have not made the same type of connection.

I have not ridden the Dragonflyer very much yet [1] and I have not ridden other tadpoles
extensively, so I will reserve comment on it.

As an aside, does anyone know how many Dragonflyers were built?

[1] Or nearly as much as I would like to

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[Tom Sherman]

"Wile E.Coyote" wrote:
>
> you've noticed that about the suspension Mtbs too. I tried to explain he should get into doing
> bents and Mtbs 50/50, but he finds bents to be somewhat of a mystery still. Took him 10 hours to
> figure out how to build the seat and still got it wrong....ended up with a $350.00 USD slingseat
> O.E. sells for $150.00. I am probably putting trike building ""on hold" till I can find a welder
> more into 7000 series Aluminium. I hate looking for another welder simply because Jim does
> fantastic welds and the welds I have seen on some "factory" trikes aren't near as good as his
> are. Jim is a great man, his Mtbs are a work of art....now if we can just get him more into
> (building) instead of repairing bents....

Joshua,

As I understand it [1], Rich Pinto used to cut the tubing for Aerocycles and jig it up, and then had
the welding performed by George Reynolds/Reynolds Weld Lab. It should be possible to get a machine
shop to cut tubing to specification, and you could also find someone to build the proper welding
jigs. Then you could have Jim perform the part of the work he does very well, which is welding thin
walled tubing.

The best looking joints [2] I have seen on recent production trikes are on Trices - however these
are brazed and not welded. This requires a very high degree of precision in fabricating the
tubing, however.

[1] Mr. Pinto should feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
[2] I am excluding the cast lugs and bonded tubing of the AVD Windcheetah, as that is in an entirely
different category.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)