Hamilton verdict.

[whiteboytrash]

Looks like more Hamilton-esque shenanigans in the Tour of Valencia:

The race began without three riders who were declared unfit to start by International Cycling Union doctors. The trio were all Spaniards from the 3 Molinos Resort team – Toni Tauler, Rafael Casero and Alberto Benito.

Tauler later said that he had been prevented from starting due to an abnormally low level of reticulocytes – immature red blood cells – and not because of an elevated red blood cell count or haemoglobin level. Tauler told the Todociclismo website he had been very close to the lower reticulocyte level during previous tests carried out last October and also in January, and said that his level is naturally low. He explained that he didn’t understand why the UCI had prevented him from starting based on this prior knowledge.

Tauler claimed that he had been told by one of a UCI doctor that he would not have to take a test to detect the blood-booster EPO because there was no chance of him failing it.

However, Benito and Casero were prevented from starting because of elevated red blood cell counts and did undergo EPO tests.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Actually - it does refer to Salt Lake City 2002.

The BBC reported tonight that the coach seen at the chalet had been banned during/after Salt Lake City 2002.

Yes that's correct, what i ment was that the needles etc. they had found a few weeks before the olympics is not the same story as the stuff they found in Salt Lake city.

So we are talking about 4 locations where the police found doping realted material: Salt Lake City 2002, the Training camp January in italy 2006, The house where some of the athletes are staying during the Turin olympics and the car of banned coach Mayer where they also found something.

What is also correct is that they watched Mayer, they (IOC, Italian Authorities, WADA) knew he was still working with the athletes because although Mayer was banned from the Olympics 2006 (because of salt Lake City 2002) by the IOC, he was still working as a coach for the national team of the Austrian ski federation. He wasn't allowed to come as an official to this year's Olympics so he visited the athletes as a private man. The same private man which did the training camp wint the same athletes a few weeks ago.

He was sacked this week after the raid in italy and his curious behaviour during his arrest in Austria. Wintersport is big in Austria, it's very important for the economy and the scandal is getting too big so finally they had to sacrifice him (i don't believe he - Mayer - is doing this all alone). Austrian TV reported yesterday that he is in a mental health clinic in Austria at the moment.

 

[bobke]

Yes that's correct, what i ment was that the needles etc. they had found a few weeks before the olympics is not the same story as the stuff they found in Salt Lake city.

So we are talking about 4 locations where the police found doping realted material: Salt Lake City 2002, the Training camp January in italy 2006, The house where some of the athletes are staying during the Turin olympics and the car of banned coach Mayer where they also found something.

What is also correct is that they watched Mayer, they (IOC, Italian Authorities, WADA) knew he was still working with the athletes because although Mayer was banned from the Olympics 2006 (because of salt Lake City 2002) by the IOC, he was still working as a coach for the national team of the Austrian ski federation. He wasn't allowed to come as an official to this year's Olympics so he visited the athletes as a private man. The same private man which did the training camp wint the same athletes a few weeks ago.

He was sacked this week after the raid in italy and his curious behaviour during his arrest in Austria. Wintersport is big in Austria, it's very important for the economy and the scandal is getting too big so finally they had to sacrifice him (i don't believe he - Mayer - is doing this all alone). Austrian TV reported yesterday that he is in a mental health clinic in Austria at the moment.

Their mistake for letting him stay on as coach after 2002.
Bigger mistake if someone found blood transfusion stuff a few weeks ago.
I mean do you have a source on that?
Wouldnt folks get arrested or immediately suspended if anything like that were found.
I mean IV equipment is routine in sports and similar but different from transfusion equipment although easily confused.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Their mistake for letting him stay on as coach after 2002.
Bigger mistake if someone found blood transfusion stuff a few weeks ago.
I mean do you have a source on that?
Wouldnt folks get arrested or immediately suspended if anything like that were found.
I mean IV equipment is routine in sports and similar but different from transfusion equipment although easily confused.

Yes i have sources for that. www.spiegel.de the portal of Der Spiegel a leading magazine in germany in publishing every day about it. I will write more this evening (have to do some work now..).

 

[JohnO]

No it doesn't refer to Salt Lake City, it refers to Italy 2006, a few weeks before the Olympics.

That's what the latest AP report indicates - authorities searched where Mayer had been living (though they aren't saying where that is), and found syringes there.

IOC indicates that it is investigating the Austrian Olympic committee, so this may run deeper than a discredited coach and a few athletes. And they are still analyzing samples taken from the Austrian team during last weekend's raids. Seems to be a focus on EPO and homologous blood transfusions - doesn't that sound familiar?

I find it encouraging that the authorities are taking a broader approach to doping. Ultimately, the athlete is responsible because they take the dope/blood/whatever, but this won't stop until those who pressure the athletes to dope are identified and prosecuted. Until now the anti doping efforts have focused on the individual athlete. They seem to be going after team management this time.

Good lord - it will be so nice to be able to watch cycling without learning enough to get medical and law degrees in the process. Anyone seen the Specialized Angel yet? What a babe...

 

[bobke]

That's what the latest AP report indicates - authorities searched where Mayer had been living (though they aren't saying where that is), and found syringes there.

IOC indicates that it is investigating the Austrian Olympic committee, so this may run deeper than a discredited coach and a few athletes. And they are still analyzing samples taken from the Austrian team during last weekend's raids. Seems to be a focus on EPO and homologous blood transfusions - doesn't that sound familiar?

I find it encouraging that the authorities are taking a broader approach to doping. Ultimately, the athlete is responsible because they take the dope/blood/whatever, but this won't stop until those who pressure the athletes to dope are identified and prosecuted. Until now the anti doping efforts have focused on the individual athlete. They seem to be going after team management this time.

Good lord - it will be so nice to be able to watch cycling without learning enough to get medical and law degrees in the process. Anyone seen the Specialized Angel yet? What a babe...

Here's the weird thing to me...mayne its because the TdF is sooo big, the accusation against Lance and Tyler get soooo much press, the former unproved and the latter for the sake of argument adjudicated as guilty.

But the X country skiers?
Guilty of blood doping with the IVs and blood bags hanging in their chalet in 2002 Olympics.
The same coach comes back as their official team Austria coach in 2006 despite being banned from the Olympics.
Needles etc found two weeks ago at training camp.
Now, blood transfusion machine FOUND in his room.
I mean, you dont need a positive lab test!!!
This is doping pure and simple.
I wonder if their transfusion tests will come back as chimeras?? he he


So whereas nobody ever found the blood bags with Tyler, the docs who provided it, the people who donated the blood etc...I'm NOT arguing the point that Tyler is innocent, I'm just saying that no circumstantial or testimonial evidence ever backed up the Tyler conviction, but these gguys are in plain daylight guilty as sin, and so far its just allegations. If ANY of this stuff were found in a cycling team room, a coaches' room, or a training camp it would be over for everyone immediately and front page news.

Weird.

 

[patch70]

So whereas nobody ever found the blood bags with Tyler, the docs who provided it, the people who donated the blood etc...I'm NOT arguing the point that Tyler is innocent, I'm just saying that no circumstantial or testimonial evidence ever backed up the Tyler conviction, but these gguys are in plain daylight guilty as sin, and so far its just allegations. If ANY of this stuff were found in a cycling team room, a coaches' room, or a training camp it would be over for everyone immediately and front page news.

No circumstantial evidence for Tyler????
Let me list some of the circumstantial evidence:
1. Prentice Steffen says Tyler came and asked him for the juice many years ago at USPS. (This was not retracted by Steffen.)
2. Rides at USPS, CSC (Mr 60%!), & Phonak. Enough said.
3. His team mate is the only other +ve among all pro cyclists tested for homologous transfusion.
4. Another team mate +ve for Epo.
5. The Phonak team goes from nowhere to performing very well in 1 season.
6. His abnormal blood tests (off score, retics) and "perfect" haematocrit.
7. The desperate attempt to make up bogus stories like previous surgery, chimerism, nasty bearded men blackmailing Phonak etc to explain his positives.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Their mistake for letting him stay on as coach after 2002.
Bigger mistake if someone found blood transfusion stuff a few weeks ago.
I mean do you have a source on that?
Wouldnt folks get arrested or immediately suspended if anything like that were found.
I mean IV equipment is routine in sports and similar but different from transfusion equipment although easily confused.

The iternetportal of the German magazine Der Spiegel wrote a few days about the training camp in january 2006. It was said that when the house was left the personell found used syringes and other stuff in the garbidge can and that they handed it over to the police. I have read this in some austrian newspapers as well.

 

[limerickman]

So whereas nobody ever found the blood bags with Tyler, the docs who provided it, the people who donated the blood etc...I'm NOT arguing the point that Tyler is innocent, I'm just saying that no circumstantial or testimonial evidence ever backed up the Tyler conviction, but these gguys are in plain daylight guilty as sin, and so far its just allegations. If ANY of this stuff were found in a cycling team room, a coaches' room, or a training camp it would be over for everyone immediately and front page news.

Weird.

Not weird in fact.

It is noticable that the Italian authorities adopted have adopted the same stance with regard to the trafficking and use of PED and other methods of cheating, as the French police.
Unless the civil authorities become involved sporting federations turn a blind eye.

That's why when the French Police started to take an interest in doping and cycling, you had a mass evacuation of cyclists from say, Nice, to say Girona (in Spain).
Or you had French riders taking out Swiss racing licences.

It would help cyclings cause if other European civil authorities adopted the same stance as France and latterly Italy.

 

[whiteboytrash]

No circumstantial evidence for Tyler????
7. The desperate attempt to make up bogus stories like previous surgery, chimerism, nasty bearded men blackmailing Phonak etc to explain his positives.

I forgot that one.... but yes Tyler did say that he received several phone calls from a mystery man before his positive(s) trying to blackmail him...... funny how Tyler failed to report this to the police......

 

[bobke]

No circumstantial evidence for Tyler????
Let me list some of the circumstantial evidence:
1. Prentice Steffen says Tyler came and asked him for the juice many years ago at USPS. (This was not retracted by Steffen.)
2. Rides at USPS, CSC (Mr 60%!), & Phonak. Enough said.
3. His team mate is the only other +ve among all pro cyclists tested for homologous transfusion.
4. Another team mate +ve for Epo.
5. The Phonak team goes from nowhere to performing very well in 1 season.
6. His abnormal blood tests (off score, retics) and "perfect" haematocrit.
7. The desperate attempt to make up bogus stories like previous surgery, chimerism, nasty bearded men blackmailing Phonak etc to explain his positives.

Thank you Inspectore Dreyfus.
My point was about the real concrete physical evidence involved in this case of skiing and the lack thereof in Tyler's case, how the MEDIA handles it.
Are you quite allright then Patch.
Not getting any from wifey?
Nursey hasnt brought your morning meds then?
Take a deep breath.
It'll get better soon.

Sheez.

 

[patch70]

Are you quite allright then Patch.

Err, you are the one with the obsession with dog-boy.

 

[tmctguer]

months ago, after reading the documents from the first hearing on the Hamilton case, i thought Hamilton was guilty. now after reading the 2nd documents from his appeal, it is clear that the first decision was correct.

he has produced no convincing evidence that supports his claim that he is innocent. his arguments appear to be a smokescreen to create reasonable doubt.

he can whine all he wants to....he had his two days in "court" and he lost both of them. this case is closed. he was found guilty. too bad, so sad.

 

[seriouslydog]

Hey Y'all, I just had to jump in.

Bobke, if that is your real name:

Look, I know it hurts. Your hero got popped. And I'm not here to try to talk any sense into you (from what I've read the others have already tried and failed). It's a pretty common phenomenon. Cognitive dissonance. Sometimes it's just easier to grasp at straws, to hold out all hope, and, if worse comes to worst, stick your head in the sand.

Maybe there wasn't as much circumstantial evidence surrounding Hamilton as the Austrian ski team. But what they did have against Hamilton was hard, scientific evidence. Right now the circumstantial evidence isn't looking good for the Austrians; soon the authorities will also have hard evidence as the tests come back. And although circumstantial evidence may support a case, it rarely gets convictions on its own. Because even overwhelming circumstantial evidence only indicates a high degree of probability.

Even Ted Bundy's mother believed he was innocent.
(I have no evidence to suggest the above statement is in any way true.)

seriously,

dog

pd I once met a Belgian who was absolutey shocked that I followed cycling. He didn't think anyone in the States had even heard of it. He then proceeded to ask me if I knew of Darwin and the Origin of Species. And the pyramids, he said, you know about the pyramids?

 

[meandmybike]

I forgot that one.... but yes Tyler did say that he received several phone calls from a mystery man before his positive(s) trying to blackmail him...... funny how Tyler failed to report this to the police......

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/nov05/nov18news


The blackmailer got 12 months. Tyler got off lightly. He attempted to gain financial advantage by blood doping and deserves prison too. If he was a boxer who threw a fight do you think there would be no civil or criminal action? Or a football player fixing games?

Good riddance.



From Cycling News:

Phonak blackmailer sentenced

The man who tried to blackmail Phonak team manager Urs Freuler over the team's doping cases this season has been sentenced to 12 months prison. The man, whose name was not released, was a former amateur cycling colleague of Freuler's. He allegedly sent Freuler numerous anonymous messages threatening to make another doping case public if he did not receive 20,000 Swiss Francs.

Freuler pretended to go along with the demands, and the would-be blackmailer was arrested at the agreed-upon "handover" at the Zürich Airport. Before the police were able to arrest him, he nearly drove down a policeman, who was able to jump out of the way at the last minute. The 49 year-old was subsequently found guilty of attempted blackmail, violence and threats against the police, and major traffic violations.

Courtesy of Susan Westemeyer

 

[whiteboytrash]

Not weird in fact.

It is noticable that the Italian authorities adopted have adopted the same stance with regard to the trafficking and use of PED and other methods of cheating, as the French police.
Unless the civil authorities become involved sporting federations turn a blind eye.

That's why when the French Police started to take an interest in doping and cycling, you had a mass evacuation of cyclists from say, Nice, to say Girona (in Spain).
Or you had French riders taking out Swiss racing licences.

It would help cyclings cause if other European civil authorities adopted the same stance as France and latterly Italy.

Unlike Tyler, this morning the two Austrian skiers who fled Italy confessed to doping. Wolfgang Perner and Wolfgang Rottmann admitted that they 'may of used illegal methods'.

 

[bobke]

Unlike Tyler, this morning the two Austrian skiers who fled Italy confessed to doping. Wolfgang Perner and Wolfgang Rottmann admitted that they 'may of used illegal methods'.

That would be "may HAVE used" right?
not "may 'of' (sic) used"

sheez

 

[whiteboytrash]

That would be "may HAVE used" right?
not "may 'of' (sic) used"

sheez

LOL ! It was a direct quote from the skiers... take it up with them....

'may of used illegal methods' (sic)

Stop playing the man and play the ball.... its obvious your hurting and trying way to hard...... thank you linesmen, thank-you ball balls... game set match WBT !

 

[musette]

Stop playing the man and play the ball.... its obvious your hurting and trying way to hard...... thank you linesmen, thank-you ball balls... game set match WBT !

Just because you think you lobbed the ball over the net doesn't mean you did. In fact, your weakest arguments are often masked by this tired metaphor of "game set match".

Regardless of what the quote was, a person could have put "sic" beside it to note the grammar was incorrect, if he or she had known the difference between correct and incorrect grammar.

 

[musette]

LOL ! It was a direct quote from the skiers... take it up with them....

No, it was not a direct quote from the skiers.

http://story.europesun.com/p.x/ct/9/id/546097d82efeb6a8/cid/c7af1307ef5b8555/

"The head of the Austrian ski federation said Tuesday that two athletes admitted they "may have used illegal methods" at the Winter Games. Police seized unlabeled drugs, a blood transfusion machine and dozens of syringes in a surprise sweep of Austrian athletes' living quarters over the weekend."