Handlebar with shallow drop for small hands - Ritchey Biomax Pro?

[David L. Johnson]

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:30:32 +0200, Jan Lindstrom wrote:

> Since I ride both from the drops and the hoods, I want a handlebar to
> have as shallow of a drop as possible. The plane of the drops and that
> of the tops should also have a smallest possible angle, i.e. if the
> drops are level with the ground, the forward part towars the hoods
> shouldn't have a big downward slope.

Well, I always arrange the bars so that the forward part of the tops is
pretty flat, with maybe a tiny downward slope, and that works for me.
Having an upward slope on the drops is not a problem, in fact it is more
comfortable for me than flat.

>
> It seems that the Ritchey Biomax Pro handlebars would fit the bill
> above, but does their extreme ergo form put the brake levers far to
> reach from the drops? I have rather small hands for a man. I can't tell
> from the pictures, does anyone here have experience with this handlebar?
>
I use Salsa Bell Lap bars on all my drop-bar bikes. For me, very
comfortable. Shallow drop, and since they are cross bars the drops are
flared out a bit so the tops don't get in the way. "Anatomical" bend, but
I find that very comfortable -- the kink gives support to my palms/wrists
in the drops. But, I have large hands, so maybe that will not work for
you.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand
_`\(,_ | mathematics.
(_)/ (_) |

 

[[email protected]]

Pete Biggs wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > TTT Morphe and TT Forma and TTT Prima 220 all have shallow drops. The
> > Forma and Prima 220 have fairly short reach too. TTT does not make
> > any of these models anymore so you will have to look for shops that
> > still have them around.
>
> Are you absolutely sure the Morphe is not made any more? That is bad
> news.
>
> Thanks.
> ~PB

Great news. I just heard back from La Bicicletta in Canada and they
said they can get the TTT Morphe bar. $39 US Dollars.

http://www.labicicletta.com/edatcat/us/tlsstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=US-TTTMORPHE

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> 41 wrote:
> > Jan Lindstrom wrote:
> > > Since I ride both from the drops and the hoods, I want a handlebar to
> > > have as shallow of a drop as possible. The plane of the drops and that
> > > of the tops should also have a smallest possible angle, i.e. if the
> > > drops are level with the ground, the forward part towars the hoods
> > > shouldn't have a big downward slope.
> >
> > Sounds to me like you have your bars too low to begin with. Try raising
> > the stem so that the top of the bars is between level with the nose of
> > the saddle, and half an inch below. This way all of the handlebar is
> > usable, with a standard drop. You don't want the drop too shallow
> > because then your hands and forearms won't fit well into the bars, even
> > if your hands are small. And you want the variety in the positioning
> > that a reasonable (140mm) drop gives you.
>
> 140mm drop is shallow. The Salsa Poco has 140mm drop. The TTT Forma
> and Priam 220 have 145mm drop. TTT Morphe has 143mm drop. All
> standard drop bars have 150 and up. Too much to be usable unless you
> are very tall.

How do we measure drop? I measured my TTT bars from the
end of the drop to the straight cross member that extends
from the stem: 170 mm center to center. The bar top is 40
mm below the saddle. I am 1.7 m tall. No dimple in the
hooks. Perfectly comfortable.

Deep drops can work, even when you think they do not;
simply raise the bars. But now that so many folks ride on
the hoods most of the time because of integrated shifters,
bars have gone even further below the saddle to maintain a
more aerodynamic posture, making the drops much lower than
they used to be.

--
Michael Press

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
"David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:30:32 +0200, Jan Lindstrom wrote:
>
> > Since I ride both from the drops and the hoods, I want a handlebar to
> > have as shallow of a drop as possible. The plane of the drops and that
> > of the tops should also have a smallest possible angle, i.e. if the
> > drops are level with the ground, the forward part towars the hoods
> > shouldn't have a big downward slope.
>
> Well, I always arrange the bars so that the forward part of the tops is
> pretty flat, with maybe a tiny downward slope, and that works for me.
> Having an upward slope on the drops is not a problem, in fact it is more
> comfortable for me than flat.

I tilt my bars that way; set the tilt so that when I pedal
in the drops the force at my hands is perpendicular to the
line of the drops.

--
Michael Press

 

[A Muzi]

> Quoth Peter:
>>I think any 'anatomic' handlebar is a bad idea.

D'ohBoy wrote:
> Why? I find mine much more comfortable than a traditional single
> radius bar.
> Did you mean for people with small hands only?
> Wondering,

Some riders like 'em . Some (me, for example) don't.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

D'ohBoy wrote:
> Quoth Peter:
>
> > I think any 'anatomic' handlebar is a bad idea.
>
> Why? I find mine much more comfortable than a traditional single
> radius bar.
>
> Did you mean for people with small hands only?
>
> Wondering,
>
> D'ohBoy

No in general. It limits the 'comfy' positions in the drops, where only
the flats are really 'comfy' on anatomic and it always moves the hands
farther from the levers.

 

[Lou Holtman]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> D'ohBoy wrote:
>
>>Quoth Peter:
>>
>>
>>>I think any 'anatomic' handlebar is a bad idea.
>>
>>Why? I find mine much more comfortable than a traditional single
>>radius bar.
>>
>>Did you mean for people with small hands only?
>>
>>Wondering,
>>
>>D'ohBoy
>
>
> No in general. It limits the 'comfy' positions in the drops, where only
> the flats are really 'comfy' on anatomic and it always moves the hands
> farther from the levers.
>


I second that. I just replaced the anatomic handlebars of my two
roadbikes with Ritchey WCS classics for the reasons Peter mentioned. To
reach the levers I had to tilt the handlebar a little forward so I had
NO comfy position left in the drops because the flat part was in the
wrong position. Anatomic handlebars are a really PIA for people with
small hands like me.


Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

 

[G.T.]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> D'ohBoy wrote:
>
>>Quoth Peter:
>>
>>
>>>I think any 'anatomic' handlebar is a bad idea.
>>
>>Why? I find mine much more comfortable than a traditional single
>>radius bar.
>>
>>Did you mean for people with small hands only?
>>
>>Wondering,
>>
>>D'ohBoy
>
>
> No in general. It limits the 'comfy' positions in the drops, where only
> the flats are really 'comfy' on anatomic and it always moves the hands
> farther from the levers.
>

I just installed my first pair of anatomics after 26 years of on and off
drop bar usage. And I've come to a different conclusion with my Salsa
Bell Laps. The anatomic section is the most most comfy and places my
hands perfectly for the levers, however, if I want to ride on the flats
there just isn't enough flat room, it's only like 1" on the Bell Laps.

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

 

[RonSonic]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 09:46:53 -0800, "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote:

>Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>> D'ohBoy wrote:
>>
>>>Quoth Peter:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think any 'anatomic' handlebar is a bad idea.
>>>
>>>Why? I find mine much more comfortable than a traditional single
>>>radius bar.
>>>
>>>Did you mean for people with small hands only?
>>>
>>>Wondering,
>>>
>>>D'ohBoy
>>
>>
>> No in general. It limits the 'comfy' positions in the drops, where only
>> the flats are really 'comfy' on anatomic and it always moves the hands
>> farther from the levers.
>>
>
>I just installed my first pair of anatomics after 26 years of on and off
>drop bar usage. And I've come to a different conclusion with my Salsa
>Bell Laps. The anatomic section is the most most comfy and places my
>hands perfectly for the levers, however, if I want to ride on the flats
>there just isn't enough flat room, it's only like 1" on the Bell Laps.

Boy, is this all about personal preference and individual physique. I was about
to post that the Salsa Bell Laps were perfect, with a near perfect grip at every
position for me. I've got the 46s which is pretty wide and leaves plenty of room
at all points for my oversized mitts. I guess I never reach for that lowest,
lastest bit of bar.

Ron

 

[Pierre]

I have small hands. I find that so-called anatomic bars put the levers
farther away. I much prefer my Merckx bend 3T Grand Prix bars.
Pierre

 

[G.T.]

RonSonic wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 09:46:53 -0800, "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>
>>>D'ohBoy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Quoth Peter:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I think any 'anatomic' handlebar is a bad idea.
>>>>
>>>>Why? I find mine much more comfortable than a traditional single
>>>>radius bar.
>>>>
>>>>Did you mean for people with small hands only?
>>>>
>>>>Wondering,
>>>>
>>>>D'ohBoy
>>>
>>>
>>>No in general. It limits the 'comfy' positions in the drops, where only
>>>the flats are really 'comfy' on anatomic and it always moves the hands
>>>farther from the levers.
>>>
>>
>>I just installed my first pair of anatomics after 26 years of on and off
>>drop bar usage. And I've come to a different conclusion with my Salsa
>>Bell Laps. The anatomic section is the most most comfy and places my
>>hands perfectly for the levers, however, if I want to ride on the flats
>>there just isn't enough flat room, it's only like 1" on the Bell Laps.
>
>
> Boy, is this all about personal preference and individual physique. I was about
> to post that the Salsa Bell Laps were perfect, with a near perfect grip at every
> position for me. I've got the 46s which is pretty wide and leaves plenty of room
> at all points for my oversized mitts. I guess I never reach for that lowest,
> lastest bit of bar.
>

I probably won't either any more, at least with my 46 Bell Laps. There
are 2" of perfectly flat section compared to 3" on my Nitto Dirt Drops.

Greg
--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

 

[Booker C. Bense]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email protected]>,
RonSonic <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Boy, is this all about personal preference and individual physique. I was about
>to post that the Salsa Bell Laps were perfect, with a near perfect grip at every
>position for me. I've got the 46s which is pretty wide and leaves plenty of room
>at all points for my oversized mitts. I guess I never reach for that lowest,
>lastest bit of bar.
>
>Ron

You can add me to the "Bell Lap" group. With the SCS compact
levers it's the most comfortable setup I have. If you can get
them to fit you, I really like egro bars. I'd rather have a
few really comfortable positions, rather than many just slightly
uncomfortable ones. The problem is getting one that really fits.

_ Booker C. Bense

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[[email protected]]

Lou Holtman wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > D'ohBoy wrote:
> >
> >>Quoth Peter:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I think any 'anatomic' handlebar is a bad idea.
> >>
> >>Why? I find mine much more comfortable than a traditional single
> >>radius bar.
> >>
> >>Did you mean for people with small hands only?
> >>
> >>Wondering,
> >>
> >>D'ohBoy
> >
> >
> > No in general. It limits the 'comfy' positions in the drops, where only
> > the flats are really 'comfy' on anatomic and it always moves the hands
> > farther from the levers.
> >
>
>
> I second that. I just replaced the anatomic handlebars of my two
> roadbikes with Ritchey WCS classics for the reasons Peter mentioned. To
> reach the levers I had to tilt the handlebar a little forward so I had
> NO comfy position left in the drops because the flat part was in the
> wrong position. Anatomic handlebars are a really PIA for people with
> small hands like me.
>
>
> Lou
> --
> Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Nope. My hands are by no means large. My TTT Prima 220 bars were the
first comfortable anatomic bars I tried. Wonderful. Then I tried the
TTT Morphe anatomic bars. Even more wonderful. Like the others, I
prefer having a few wonderfully comfortable positions for my not large
hands than no comfortable positions at all with the round only bars.

 

[Pierre]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Then I tried the
> TTT Morphe anatomic bars. Even more wonderful. Like the others, I
> prefer having a few wonderfully comfortable positions for my not large
> hands than no comfortable positions at all with the round only bars.
>

I used a TTT Morphe for a while, then I went back to my TTT Grand Prix. The
reach to the levers is good, but the hoods aren't in the right place.
Pierre

 

[Lou Holtman]

[email protected] wrote:
> Lou Holtman wrote:
>
>>Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>
>>>D'ohBoy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Quoth Peter:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I think any 'anatomic' handlebar is a bad idea.
>>>>
>>>>Why? I find mine much more comfortable than a traditional single
>>>>radius bar.
>>>>
>>>>Did you mean for people with small hands only?
>>>>
>>>>Wondering,
>>>>
>>>>D'ohBoy
>>>
>>>
>>>No in general. It limits the 'comfy' positions in the drops, where only
>>>the flats are really 'comfy' on anatomic and it always moves the hands
>>>farther from the levers.
>>>
>>
>>
>>I second that. I just replaced the anatomic handlebars of my two
>>roadbikes with Ritchey WCS classics for the reasons Peter mentioned. To
>>reach the levers I had to tilt the handlebar a little forward so I had
>>NO comfy position left in the drops because the flat part was in the
>>wrong position. Anatomic handlebars are a really PIA for people with
>>small hands like me.
>>
>>
>>Lou
>>--
>>Posted by news://news.nb.nu
>
>
> Nope. My hands are by no means large. My TTT Prima 220 bars were the
> first comfortable anatomic bars I tried. Wonderful. Then I tried the
> TTT Morphe anatomic bars. Even more wonderful. Like the others, I
> prefer having a few wonderfully comfortable positions for my not large
> hands than no comfortable positions at all with the round only bars.
>


In that one comfortable position, and there is only one in the drops
with anatomic bars, I couldn't reach the brake levers. I tried three
different ones and now I'm back to the classics.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

 

[Jan Lindstrom]

An interesting thread, but still no answer to my rephrased question:

Does anyone know if the Ritchey Biomax Pro is worse in terms
reaching the brake levers from the drops than say 3TTT Morphe Randonneur
or 3TTT Mutant?

Jan Lindström

 

[[email protected]]

Jan Lindstrom wrote:
> An interesting thread, but still no answer to my rephrased question:
>
> Does anyone know if the Ritchey Biomax Pro is worse in terms
> reaching the brake levers from the drops than say 3TTT Morphe Randonneur
> or 3TTT Mutant?
>
> Jan Lindström

Still no answer to your question, but you can just buy more TTT Morphe
bars and not worry about whether the Ritchey is worse. La Bicicletta
sells the Morphe and says they can get them. $39 compared to $65 for
the Ritchey.

http://www.labicicletta.com/edatcat/us/tlsstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=US-TTTMORPHE

 

[SYJ]

Jan Lindstrom wrote:
> An interesting thread, but still no answer to my rephrased question:
>
> Does anyone know if the Ritchey Biomax Pro is worse in terms
> reaching the brake levers from the drops than say 3TTT Morphe Randonneur
> or 3TTT Mutant?
>
> Jan Lindström

Jan,
I can't offer a comparison, but I can tell you that Ritchey's regular
(non-biomax) ergo bars are terrible for small handed folk. More
specifically, most all of their features cut both ways:

Wide tops w/sharp curves:
Lots of room when riding with hands on top during climbs
Wrists tend to hit the bar when sprinting/hammering from drops/hooks

Short hooks:
Knees don't whack 'em
Not much to grab onto during aformentioned sprints/honks

Super-extreme ergo sections:
Really comfy when riding in drops while seated
Makes reaching brake levers for small handed riders difficult - long
downhills are usually accompanied by moderate cramping

The above is true for a 'traditional' Ritchey ergo bar - not sure about
the newer shape (the new bars look to have a less extreme ergo section)
or the Biomax bars (flare of the drops/hooks may mitigate the forearm
bruising issue). For my money, I think I'm going to ditch the Ritcheys
this season and go with either one of Deda's ergo bars, or a big deep
Merckx bend (I like deep drops).

SYJ

 

[Antti Salonen]

Jan Lindstrom <[email protected]> wrote:

> Does anyone know if the Ritchey Biomax Pro is worse in terms
> reaching the brake levers from the drops than say 3TTT Morphe Randonneur
> or 3TTT Mutant?

No idea, but I've been lucky with Syntace bars, also having very small
hands for an adult. I have mine setup at a slightly higher than normal
angle with the Campagnolo levers in turn pretty low, like this:

http://people.fishpool.fi/~as/pics/misc/syntace7075.jpg

The distance to the brake levers is very short, and I'd say the bar in
this regard is just as good as the 3T Morphe which I've also used
before. The Syntace otherwise, for me, is better because it has a
pretty shallow drop.

-as

 

[41]

Jan Lindstrom wrote:
> 41 wrote:
> > Jan Lindstrom wrote:
> > > Since I ride both from the drops and the hoods, I want a handlebar to
> > > have as shallow of a drop as possible. The plane of the drops and that
> > > of the tops should also have a smalle st possible angle, i.e. if the
> > > drops are level with the ground, the forward part towars the hoods
> > > shouldn't have a big downward slope.

You have two aspects here, drop and angle of ramp. The shallowest angle
of ramp that seems available in North America is on what Rivendell
calls their Nitto Noodle bar. The Nitto B115 is also good that way.
They have what I call a standard drop and what others here have called
a shallow drop: 140mm. Judging from the picture of your bike I would
say that is shallower than what you have (150mm?), although from a
front view it's hard to tell.


> > Sounds to me like you have your bars too low to begin with. Try raising
> > the stem so that the top of the bars is between level with the nose of
> > the saddle, and half an inch below. This way all of the handlebar is
> > usable, with a standard drop. You don't want the drop too shallow
> > because then your hands and forearms won't fit well into the bars, even
> > if your hands are small. And you want the variety in the positioning
> > that a reasonable (140mm) drop gives you.

>
> The bars are exactly where they need to be. Does this loo k unreasonably
> low?
> http://jan.linja.org/tour_report/day4_files/image006.jpg The drop from
> the saddle to the top is 1,5 cm, practically nothing.

Judging from your original description, I would have to say: they might
very well be (for you). Or, it could be that the reach is too long.
Part of the reason for having that ramp, by the way, is to get the
brake levers lower than the tops of the bars. Then you have three
heights: flats, hoods, drops.

Anyway, you might consider raising your bars 1.5-3cm. See what happens.
Or, your stem could be too long...

> I know of the Nitto, but really do like the ergonomic design, it fits
> me better than the conventi onal bar geometry.

You can turn regular bars into "ergonomic"/anatomic bars, i.e. add a
flat spot, quite easily: add a short section of PVC or foam tubing over
the curve, and then the bar tape over that. Rivendell has a more
detailed description somewhere.

> Perhaps I'll rephrase my
> question: Does anyone know if the Ritchey Biomax Pro is worse in terms
> reaching the brake levers from the drops than say TTT Morphe Randonneur
> or TTT Prima. I get the levers just close enough to comfortabl y descend
> Alpine passes.

Sorry, haven't a clue on that one..