handling techniques for toe overlap

[nessie]

Hi. Can anyone recommend some handling techniques for dealing with a new roadbike that has some serious toe overlap --about 2 inches. I am especially having trouble cornering at low speed and making turns when stopped (e.g., turning left after a stop sign). Trackstands are impossible! I am posting this to the racing forum because I figure that crit and track racers are most likely to have experience in riding with this problem.

The frame is custom made and very beautiful. Plus it is the first bike I've ever ridden that fits my shorter torso. Getting the frame rebuilt, or getting a new frame is absolutely not an option at this point. The frame and fork won't fit a smaller wheel. I do plan to work on some fit & setup issues in the next few weeks: shorter cranks, changed cleat position, new shoes, etc. But even with such changes, the toe overlap will persist somewhat. I am interested in learning some riding habits and techniques that will allow me to corner without hitting my feet.

Any advice and suggestions are appreciated!

 

[Rompinrhino]

I'm a little confused why you have toe overlap. I dont want to say your screwed, but thats my first impression. Just be carefull I guess, and explain the frame some more, who makes it, you got it made for you? I dont understand why youd have overlap.do you have clipless pedals?

 

[kleinbbc]

you may be running a 40º fork and need 43 or 45. Also you may be riding to far back on your shoes. Also did you have the frame builder build to your own specs like a 75º headtube.

 

[62vette]

Toe overlap is a fact of life with a lot of modern geometry bikes. I have it on my 2 year old GT ZR 1.0, but didn't have it on my 12 year old lugged steel bike.

It is only ever an issue at REALLY low speeds, and once you are aware of it you can just coast with the cranks vertical when doing a sharp low-speed turn or drop your heels which can bring your toe up out of the way of the wheel.

I wouldn't recommend making big changes to crank length etc just to avoid this. Get the bike set up correctly to fit you, and learn to work with the overlap if it is still there.


Lindsay

 

[keydates]

what is toe overlap?

 

[62vette]

what is toe overlap?

It's where your front wheel toches the toe of your shoe when your cranks are horizontal and you are turning the handlebars at slow speeds.

 

[nessie]

Thanks for the replies, gang. Very good point, Lindsay, about putting the heels down. I'm bad about that anyway. And I'm going to adjust my cleats to move back on the pedals this weekend. How long did it take you to get used to your toe overlap? Does it seem normal now? Does it just go away after you develop a zen-like connection with the bike? Will I fall over a lot while I'm learning? Should I retrain to have different leading feet when turning different directions? Must I never pedal when turning sharply at higher speeds? How do I learn how sharp of a turn is too much? I am really having problems turning as I stop and start at stop signs and lights--it feels dangerous and scary. How do people get used to this?

[some reasons for toe overlap: as frames get smaller the wheel size doesn't necessarily decrease. As the top tube gets shorter, the wheel is closer the rider and her/his feet (aren't crit bikes like this?). Toe overlap is more common on bikes for petite people and women. Terry bikes have smaller front wheels to relieve toe overlap.]

About the bike: Sorry I don't know the measurements offhand, but the frame is "square", i.e. the top tube is about as long as the seat tube. The fork was built to go with the frame, and the headtube doesn't seem particularly steep. The frame was custom built to my body measurements by my fiance (10 years exp. as a pro-wrench and wheel builder) under the oversight of an experienced professional frame builder named Rich Adams. The bike is a wedding present, so I can't return it. The overlap was indeed intentional. Both guys (fiance and frame builder) believe strongly in correct top tube length ahead of avoiding toe overlap -- "just learn to deal with the overlap" -- a matter of opinion among frame designers. It feels phenomenal to ride a bike that isn't too long in the cockpit (for the first time in my life), BUT I HAVE NO IDEA HOW YOU "JUST DEAL" WITH TOE OVERLAP.

Thanks again!

 

[62vette]

Find a place like an empty car park or a large lawn to practice starting, stopping and turning where the worst you will hurt is your pride if you stuff it up. When you are felling more confident take it out amongst the traffic, but avoid adding stress while you are getting accustomed to your new set up.

You will find that once you are travelling at more than about 10km/h you won't be turning the front wheel enough for the overlap to get in the way.

Practice makes perfect.

Enjoy your new custom bike!


Lindsay

 

[xcspace]

Toe overlap is common on many Crit and track bikes and bikes of very small frame size. Don't adjust your cleats just because of the overlap; put the cleats where they need to be for best pedalling.

You will never have a problem above 5 mph. The toe overlap only is a problem at near zero speeds. You will eventually learn how to live with it by being aware of the problem and remembering (which will become somewhat automatic with time) to point your toe high (heel down) at the appropriate time or performing a quick straightening out of the wheel when the foot may come in contact (or both for extreme overlap situations).