Hard evidence of U.S. torturing prisoners to death ignored by corporate media



Is anyone else having trouble with this site??? It seems that it is taking forever and then sometimes when I hit the submit button it just does not transfer......
All my other sites are free of trouble.
 
yep, sometimes its slow, somtimes it fast...

too many unregistered guests browsing the forums.


wolfix said:
Is anyone else having trouble with this site??? It seems that it is taking forever and then sometimes when I hit the submit button it just does not transfer......
All my other sites are free of trouble.
 
darkboong said:
Quite, so moaning about them being "Civillian Contractors" when in fact they're mercenaries tooled up for destruction with no accountability is a bit --ing rich.

"Aww, poor Mercenaries". Doesn't quite sound right does it ?
Whatever gets the job done! As long as it gets our troops home faster!
 
NYYTEX22 said:
Whatever gets the job done! As long as it gets our troops home faster!

The job is done. Iraq is a factionalised disintegrating mess and the Coalition, by and large have full control of the oil. The oil money goes through American corporations, the oil-infrastructure is built and maintained by American corps, and the revenues that come off that are determined by American corporations, not Iraqis.

Job done, but you won't be able to bring the troops home, you will need them to protect the oilfields, pipelines and infrastructure. Part of their role will be ensuring that no one Iraqi faction gets strong enough to unite the country against the occupation army. That job doesn't do itself, it has to be maintained diligently and that requires considerable amounts of man power.
 
darkboong said:
The job is done. Iraq is a factionalised disintegrating mess and the Coalition, by and large have full control of the oil. The oil money goes through American corporations, the oil-infrastructure is built and maintained by American corps, and the revenues that come off that are determined by American corporations, not Iraqis.

Job done, but you won't be able to bring the troops home, you will need them to protect the oilfields, pipelines and infrastructure. Part of their role will be ensuring that no one Iraqi faction gets strong enough to unite the country against the occupation army. That job doesn't do itself, it has to be maintained diligently and that requires considerable amounts of man power.
Thats why occupational armies are so cool :)
 
darkboong said:
The job is done. Iraq is a factionalised disintegrating mess and the Coalition, by and large have full control of the oil. The oil money goes through American corporations, the oil-infrastructure is built and maintained by American corps, and the revenues that come off that are determined by American corporations, not Iraqis.

Job done, but you won't be able to bring the troops home, you will need them to protect the oilfields, pipelines and infrastructure. Part of their role will be ensuring that no one Iraqi faction gets strong enough to unite the country against the occupation army. That job doesn't do itself, it has to be maintained diligently and that requires considerable amounts of man power.
What do you suggest then? Cause every option I can think of would not work. You seem like a highly intelligent person, why don't you storm the capital of your own army and take it over?!?
 
NYYTEX22 said:
hahahahahahaha!
no seriously. we (bush/cheney inc) have gotten ourselves into a veritable hornets nest. The outcome will either be a disaster of epic proportions or a milestone in the spread of democratic principles to a tyrannical, monarchistic, totalitarian area of the world. the risks are great but the paybacks, in human liberty, are inestimably immense.
 
NYYTEX22 said:
What do you suggest then?

Depends on the objectives you have in mind.

My objective is to let the Iraqis run their own country for better or worse, if the Bush Administration shared that objective they would not have invaded in the first place.

However now they have they are basically burning tax payer dollars by the $billion and the return on that going right into the energy corporation accounts. From Bush and Cheney's point of view this is fine, after all they are primarily in the pockets of the Energy corps anyway.

I would simply withdraw. The moral aspect of it is a farce as it stands and realistically there is very little that can be done to settle the place down now.

NYYTEX22 said:
Cause every option I can think of would not work. You seem like a highly intelligent person, why don't you storm the capital of your own army and take it over?!?

That would not suffice to return law, order, justice and peace to the Iraqi people. It would not help me attain my objectives either.
 
davidmc said:
no seriously. we (bush/cheney inc) have gotten ourselves into a veritable hornets nest. The outcome will either be a disaster of epic proportions or a milestone in the spread of democratic principles to a tyrannical, monarchistic, totalitarian area of the world. the risks are great but the paybacks, in human liberty, are inestimably immense.
I was only laughing at the comment, not at the situation and/or discussion at hand. But what are we as Americans doing about it? NOTHING?!? Do we storm the streets in protest? No, not like we should anyways. Nothing about this will get better until the American society stands up and voices our opinions and concerns as "ONE". Only when we evaluate the war in Iraq for all it's truths and not by the mainstream medias opinions and broadcasts. Will we be able to identify our faults, and start taking those steps and leaps into a better direction. I am no Bush fan in any form. But we must be willing to fix our mistakes on the homefront before we can truly fix the mistakes we have committed overseas!
 
darkboong said:
Depends on the objectives you have in mind.

My objective is to let the Iraqis run their own country for better or worse, if the Bush Administration shared that objective they would not have invaded in the first place.

However now they have they are basically burning tax payer dollars by the $billion and the return on that going right into the energy corporation accounts. From Bush and Cheney's point of view this is fine, after all they are primarily in the pockets of the Energy corps anyway.

I would simply withdraw. The moral aspect of it is a farce as it stands and realistically there is very little that can be done to settle the place down now.



That would not suffice to return law, order, justice and peace to the Iraqi people. It would not help me attain my objectives either.
I did not approve or support the invasion in the first place! But how would that look to the rest of the world if we were just to pack up everything and withdraw from the country as is? We would lose credibility in the U.N.(even though I feel it is crooked as our own goverment) we would also lose credibility from the rest of the world's eyes.
 
NYYTEX22 said:
I was only laughing at the comment, not at the situation and/or discussion at hand. But what are we as Americans doing about it? NOTHING?!? Do we storm the streets in protest? No, not like we should anyways. Nothing about this will get better until the American society stands up and voices our opinions and concerns as "ONE". Only when we evaluate the war in Iraq for all it's truths and not by the mainstream medias opinions and broadcasts. Will we be able to identify our faults, and start taking those steps and leaps into a better direction. I am no Bush fan in any form. But we must be willing to fix our mistakes on the homefront before we can truly fix the mistakes we have committed overseas!
well reasoned post. I marched in Washington. You are correct, I believe, where people will put up w/ alot before they actually take to the streets. It is unfortunate that this administration has gotten away w/ alot of the reckless decisions they have made.
 
NYYTEX22 said:
I did not approve or support the invasion in the first place! But how would that look to the rest of the world if we were just to pack up everything and withdraw from the country as is? We would lose credibility in the U.N.(even though I feel it is crooked as our own goverment) we would also lose credibility from the rest of the world's eyes.
DB has a point. The military operation is and has been over since 2003. Our troops are merely training aides for the insurgents and terrorist fighters looking for real world experience. They deserve better than that, no?
 
davidmc said:
DB has a point. The military operation is and has been over since 2003. Our troops are merely training aides for the insurgents and terrorist fighters looking for real world experience. They deserve better than that, no?
But we do have a responsibility to help them rebuild what we have tore down, with our bombs, and bullets. How can we rebuild until we stop car-bombings, and gunfights. If anything we hold a responsibility to the children of Iraq. cause if we do not fully eradicate these terrorist from Iraq, what will stop them from overthrowing the democratic goverment we are helping store, and setup another vicious and cruel regime?
 
NYYTEX22 said:
I did not approve or support the invasion in the first place! But how would that look to the rest of the world if we were just to pack up everything and withdraw from the country as is?

The US would look just as **** as it did in the first place when it lied to justify an illegal war of aggression on another country. I don't see people whining about withdrawing from Vietnam these days, in fact most people seem to think that was a good thing.

NYYTEX22 said:
We would lose credibility in the U.N.(even though I feel it is crooked as our own goverment) we would also lose credibility from the rest of the world's eyes.

This ain't a PR exercise and quite frankly the occupation is just compounding the PR disaster anyway. It would be better to cut their losses now and trust the Iraqi people to find a way out. Perhaps later the US can make war reparations and apologise later, but it will have to do so on the terms of the emerging Iraqi government(s) and *NOT* play favourites or fuel arms races. That won't happen of course, no politician would want to lose face or admit they are wrong, and the Almighty Dollar will ensure that arms dealing happens (no doubt it will be defended as a god given right too)...
 
darkboong said:
The US would look just as **** as it did in the first place when it lied to justify an illegal war of aggression on another country. I don't see people whining about withdrawing from Vietnam these days, in fact most people seem to think that was a good thing.



This ain't a PR exercise and quite frankly the occupation is just compounding the PR disaster anyway. It would be better to cut their losses now and trust the Iraqi people to find a way out. Perhaps later the US can make war reparations and apologise later, but it will have to do so on the terms of the emerging Iraqi government(s) and *NOT* play favourites or fuel arms races. That won't happen of course, no politician would want to lose face or admit they are wrong, and the Almighty Dollar will ensure that arms dealing happens (no doubt it will be defended as a god given right too)...
Oh Come on! Be a human being. Instead of whining of all that we have done already. Why don't you get over the fact that we did what we did. We have to start focusing on making things right. You really think we could just hand over the complete power to Iraqis? thats insane. We would start feeling backlash from the who Middle East. Whats more important, keeping a war contained in one country, or having to retaliate towards the whole middle east?
 
darkboong said:
The US would look just as **** as it did in the first place when it lied to justify an illegal war of aggression on another country. I don't see people whining about withdrawing from Vietnam these days, in fact most people seem to think that was a good thing.



This ain't a PR exercise and quite frankly the occupation is just compounding the PR disaster anyway. It would be better to cut their losses now and trust the Iraqi people to find a way out. Perhaps later the US can make war reparations and apologise later, but it will have to do so on the terms of the emerging Iraqi government(s) and *NOT* play favourites or fuel arms races. That won't happen of course, no politician would want to lose face or admit they are wrong, and the Almighty Dollar will ensure that arms dealing happens (no doubt it will be defended as a god given right too)...

Oh Come on! Be a human being. Instead of whining of all that we have done already. Why don't you get over the fact that we did what we did. We have to start focusing on making things right. You really think we could just hand over the complete power to Iraqis? thats insane. We would start feeling backlash from the whole Middle East. Whats more important, keeping a war contained in one country, or having to retaliate towards the whole middle east?
 
NYYTEX22 said:
Oh Come on! Be a human being. Instead of whining of all that we have done already. Why don't you get over the fact that we did what we did. We have to start focusing on making things right. You really think we could just hand over the complete power to Iraqis? thats insane.

Huh ? They had complete power in the first place. You took it off them, amazingly more Iraqi's die per day now than they did under Saddam.

NYYTEX22 said:
We would start feeling backlash from the whole Middle East. Whats more important, keeping a war contained in one country, or having to retaliate towards the whole middle east?

Err, you *are* feeling a backlash from the whole Middle East right here and now. There is absolutely no evidence that you are keeping war contained in one country. Terrorist attacks are *up* signficantly (in excess of 2 fold the last State Dept. Survey I saw) across the whole region.

As for retaliation : You guys started it. If you want to stop it you have to make a start by quitting ****ing with them.

Those old "Responsibility" and "Retaliation" arguments were used by opponents to the dissolution of the old British Empire. On balance I'm pretty bloody sure that the people of the Commonwealth are signficantly better off running their own affairs (not universally true of course).
 
limerickman said:
So the question you and your fellow citizens need to ask is - why do people use cocaine?
Maybe wolf-o-whizz should ask his Fearless Leader why he was such a coke fiend. :confused:
 

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