rparedes said:
I have to say that in the "value" category they are hard to beat. I just finished buying a bunch of stuff for a new bike I'm building and had a hard time matching the Immortal Force price for the full bike. I came close, slightly higher, but had to end up buying a used carbon frame- Giant TCR C1 (which BTW, it was in excellent condition, almost new). With a new frame, (the best I could do for new frameset was about $700 or $800) I would have gone way over the bikesdirect price for a "similar bike". Now in fairness, i do have slightly better wheels (Mavik Aksium vs Ritchey generic), BB (Dura ace vs FSA), brakes (shimano ultegra vs Cane Creek generic), handlebar (FSA compact vs ritchey generic) and saddle (very personal choice) but it took me 4 months to find the right stuff.
Ok, for those of you out there, the truth is...... bikesdirect frames are probably the same that you get from some big name companies. motorbecan, etc, are all just trade names. recently i set up a bike company (Irish cycles at
www.irishcycles.com - forgive the intermediate website for now, programmer hired). A lot of these guys like motorbecan, etc, buy what are called 'open models' from manufacturers which are generic designs they then slap a label on. then, these companies set agreements up with shimano, etc, to spec their parts.. if they do not, they work with other US companies as intermediaries because of tariff issues on imports.
Now, let's talk about China. This is where most frames of carbon are produced. Even if you think they are made in Taiwan, the firms export the work to main land China. A lot of European bikes - same thing. EU law says if 40% or more of what gives an item it's value is done in the EU, it is made in that country. So... a lot of companies then say the bike is made in Italy, etc.
When I went into starting this company which is solely geared at producing racing grade bikes for USA Cycling type Cat 1,2,3 at affordable prices I was stuck with buying a open model or designing a bike. Designing is expensive, upwards of $12K because of the cost to get the molds. We sent in a representative to the factory who visited and brought back photos, information, testing results, etc. We finally settled on a manfacturer, and a design to make the bike unqiue to us, not just an open model that a lot of these companies buy. But.... that is why our bikes cost more then Bikes direct or pedal force.
Next thing to look at is the material engineering behind them. Most bikes are T700 carbon or TR500 with about 30 to 45% resin. There is no way around it, if you're going to spec a bike with better carbon or multiple kinds of carbon, you've got to pay to play. A lot of open models are low grade carbon simply because it's easier to buy on mass and you don't have a lot of capital invested in it.
So why do I say this? Well, motorbecane, other bottechia, etc, are all names that had a valued and treasured past. when you buy those bikes today, you are buying that stamped on an open model. now, that is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you understand it and what youre buying. and, that is not to say open models are not of quality either, many are fantastic and you see them carried as Storck, Dietech, etc.
My challenge has been starting a new line from scratch that is high quality and reasonably cost effective. It's hard after taxes, etc. You really cannot make much of a profit when you produce a decent bike. So for instance, my Rival equipped bike retail msrp is offered at $2300 (full race ready - no corners cut) but my Red equipped bike is only $3623. So as you can see the big issue as producing the frame. My frames simply put, are quality.
So, something to take into account- if your buying for the parts package and you're going to swap frames out later, Bikesdirect and others works very well. If you're looking for a quality frame and a good parts package, look at some smaller builder and believe it or not, Ridley or Orbea. You pay realistically for what you get albiet when you go to Ridley or Orbea it's a lot more then other builders but it is of higher quality.
