Has drug testing got stupid???



Eldron

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Jan 24, 2002
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Here's a soap box subject to start the new topic!


I fully support drug free cycling but the testing procedures and/or levels seem to be getting stupid!

Garzelli gets done for coke and reckons it was in some sweets he ate, Simoni reckons the his positive test was from eating chicken and Ullrich reckons a two E's gave him the positive test.

All these are plausible stories I guess (depending on the amount of each drug found in the body). Surely they can tell how much the rider took based on the amount in the urine/blood? Or maybe the rider took a massive amount some time ago and it's diluted enough to look like it was just a little....maybe teams should be made to test their riders once a month (overseen by a UCI official at the team's expense) - that way they can 'believe' the chicken, sweets and E stories and save the careers of pro cyclists who accidently injest the wrong subtance....

It seems to be getting to the point where pro cyclists can only eat organic food that they grew themselves to avoid ingesting steroids and the like that modern industrial farming methods use.

What say ye?
 
G

Guest

Guest
Yep it is a bit of a joke these days....whatever happened to the 'you do the crime, you do the time' saying?
 

Vo2

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Aug 11, 2001
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Interesting debate. In my mind there are two questions: 1> Which types of drugs/supplements enhance performance to such an extent that it assists an athlete to perform above his/her ability? 2> How often and how close to the event must the athlete take these drugs/supplements to ensure above average performance?
Crack, Speed and MDMA (Eeeee!) metabolite stays detectable in urine for about a week (±). Detecting high amounts of drug metabolite in urine will then mean that the athlete must of taken the drug shortly before the test. I know that frequency and volume of consumption all play a part, but don't you need a certain amount of the chemical in your system for it to truly enhance your ability?
[rant] I'm under the impression that Ullrich failed his drug test while he was out of competition (I stand corrected), how can he be nailed for a performance enhancer then? [/rant]
Surely taking Speed 10 days before an event will have almost no, if any, affect on performance, yes? By the look of things, if performance enhancing chemicals are found in your system, even if you are out of competition for 6 months, you get nailed.

btw, I wonder what Ullrich double-stacked on? Must of been a good parteeeeeee! ;D
 
G

Guest

Guest
Your right, it was out of competition and its abit rough if he gets treated the same as someone who took the same thing the morning of a race.

Some more questions could be..............

- Can I take enough EPO so to even things up with people who live and train in high mountains?
- Can I take Vit C?
- Can I use sports drinks instead of water?
- Going to bed early and getting lots of sleep helps your performance, can I do that?
 

Eldron

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Jan 24, 2002
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I reckon cycling has got a bad rap about drugs and is now overacting.

Drugs outside of competition can improve performance - reducing base load etc. but (as Steve points out) where do you draw the line? It can't be zero tolerance - otherwise the guys that live at alititude will keep getting bust for EPO cos of their high red blood counts when racing at sea level.

I thought the UCI's new 'healthy' levels approach was the right way but that seems to have gone out the window when the first media report spoke about drugs on the Giro....

Rant number two: cycling is only drug infested cos they test. I reckon most other sports are just as bad but we never see the results. Now Ullrich, Garzelli and Simoni will lose out (and so will we with no Simoni or Garzelli at the TdF).

Let's hope thw WADA or something like that (world against drug something or other) applies some logic to this serious issue!
 

drjackfrost

New Member
Jan 18, 2002
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i agree with all the coment on Jan ullrich,the fact that the was tested while not in a competitive form in professional cycling to me is a joke, i mean you dont see them testing Eddy Merckyx now days.ok i know that is a little stupid of me to say but if you think about it ,ti is a very similar thing,even to test Miguel Indurain or such person who is not competitive in the professional cycling circle for the time being.

I also feel that cycling in genral is getting a huge knock because our governing bodies are doing something about it, a recent survey was held and it showed that soccer had the biggest drug use but the only person that ive ever heard of , whos been prosecuted was Maradonna.

And just to set the record straight it is not all the cyclist infact it seems to me that its the cyclists that have had good form before and have lost it and are looking for an easy way to regain it. ie:pantani but then again you dont see/hear the "vetrans" of pro cycling doing drugs ie:Taffi from Mapei.

I hope that all professional sports become more professional than more advanced ,in this i mean drug technoligies not equipment wise. :)

to Lance and his team,Telekom and the other teams that are trying to make a stand keep it up boys ;)
 
G

Guest

Guest
yeah, I think it is just something that the media is using to give the sport some drama (as if it didn't have enough, or something). I think it is utter shite, if you ask me.

It is the same in the Olympics. People tested positive for trace chemicals that were found in such items as PowerBars and Gatorade. How can pro athlete keep up with the regulations, if they aren't even told what items (especially the ones geared towards sports performance) contain those banned chemicals? For instance, a little girl gymnast was stipped of her medal because she tested positive for a trace chemical found in the cough syrup she had taken the night before. Apparently, she was ill.

And, why do people like Lance and Ullrich have to deal with this? Lance can't go through a ride without the French yelling "Dopee" at him because they hate him and think that surely he is only winning because he is drugged. It just so happens that he has an amazing lung capacity and extremely low heart rate. He always has. And, I am not for drug abuse in any way. But, if it isn't race time, it shouldn't matter. Does that mean none of these guys can have so much as a glass of beer while in professional standing, regardless of whether they are currently competing?

The media will always find some way to sensationalize this ****. And, quite honestly, I am sick of it.
 
G

Guest

Guest
We need to stamp out drugs in cycling. Why are cyclists alowed to still compete once they have been done for drugs and admitted it?

Furthermore, athletes need to take responsibility for their actions/drug use. The young gymnast did take drugs, it might have been in a cough syrup given to her by a coach, but she still tested positivly. Its only speculation but maybe she would not have won medals without the cough syrup's ergogenic effect. She/her coach should have had more sense! Taking cough syrup half way through the Olympics, surely she would have checked it was OK with a doctor. Even amatures know that many non-prescription drugs are on the band list. She's as guilty as can be, if only because she was to ignorant to take cough medicine.

Inocent until proven guilty, Once guilty always guilty. Lets start giving praise to cyclists that have never been caught cheating, even if they can only muster a bunch finish with others that have been shown to be guilty of drugs.

Ullrich, taking E's what is he thinking of? Cycling is his profession, he should be more professional. I wouldn't risk my job by taking E's or conducting other inappropriate behaviour.

Perhaps the media ae given too much to work with, perhaps we should be supplying them with stories of cycling heros and great performances. We need a nil by mouth, nil by needle sport. (Food and water allowed).
 

ewep

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Jan 31, 2002
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Here is the latest and greatest joking ( ::) oops, doping) story:

Rumsas's wife arrested for doping products


By VeloNews Interactive wire services
Copyright AFP2002


This report filed July 29, 2002



Click image to enlarge
Photo By AFP


Rumsas on the Tour podium in Paris on Sunday.


Lithuanian cyclist Raimondas Rumsas, third in this year's Tour de France, has been suspended after his wife was found in possession of doping products, the rider's team Lampre announced Monday.

"If we discover that the rider is at all responsible he will be fired straightaway," Lampre said in a statement announcing Rumsas' suspension pending an internal investigation.

"The team is confused by what has happened and we state we have no involvement in this whatsoever," he added.

Rumsas' wife was arrested on Sunday at Chamonix after customs officials found her in possession of a number of pharmaceutical products and two prescriptions "which could be considered doping.".

She was held in custody in the south eastern city of Lyon, where she remained Monday.

Rumsas's wife accompanied the Lampre team rider from the Pyrenees until the penultimate stage of the Tour de France before the arrival in Paris on Sunday where he finished third behind American winner Lance Armstrong and Spain's Joseba Beloki.

In Paris, the hotel of Rumsas and the entire Lampre team was also searched Sunday but nothing was found.

Late Starter?

Competing in his first Tour de France 30-year-old Rumsas' performance surpassed expectations with the Lithuanian cyclist's career best so far a victory in last autumn's Tour of Lombardy.

Rumsas' excellent form in the Tour raised more than a few eyebrows, and race director Jean-Marie Leblanc admitted on Monday he was 'a bit astonished' by the Lithuanian's progress.

"It's true that he won the Tour of Lombardy but he didn't have the reputation as a rider capable of challenging in the biggest races, capable of a podium finish in the Tour de France," Leblanc said.

"There are always late starters," he added, declining to comment on the arrest of the rider's wife.

Competing in his first Tour de France Rumsas' performance surpassed expectations with the Lithuanian cyclist's career best so far a victory in last autumn's Tour of Lombardy.

The man from the village of Salgalai, 250km from Vilnius, left home aged 13 years to train at the state sports academy at Paneyezys, turning professional in 1996 with the Fassa Bortolo team.

However he fell foul of team bosses when he won the Tour of Lombardy last year when team-mate Francesco Casagrande had been tipped for victory and Rumsas was sidelined for their Tour de France squad.

Rumsas packed his bags and was welcomed with enthusiasm by the Lampre team making friends following the grueling Mont Ventoux stage of the Tour de France where he placed fifth and waited at the podium for each member of the team to cross the finishing line.

But despite not having won many races the Lithuanian had been listed among the pre-race favorites by another rival for the top spot Spaniard Igor Gonzalez de Galdeano after building a reputation as a time-trial specialist and a rider capable of imposing on the toughest climbs.

All samples tested thus far are negative

All doping tests taken during the Tour de France until last Wednesday's 16th stage to La Plagne were negative, including those of Rumsas, doping officials said Monday.

Results from the final four days of the Tour will be known midweek, race deputy director Daniel Baal said.

"After verification with the UCI, all the controls are negative up until and including July 24," said Baal. "The results are also negative concerning EPO."
Article by Velonews (http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/2836.0.html)

If this isn't a joke, then I don't know what is. Guys, I'll have to stop cycling, my wife's a nurse and they might find banned substances at her work, sorry!! (ASSHOLES!) (Sorry Steve and all)
 
G

Guest

Guest
She did have EPO and steriods in her car though....looks abit suss. But the fact remains he never failed a test.

cheers
 

Eldron

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Jan 24, 2002
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My final verdict is: YES - drug testing has got stupid!

The bit of evidence that pushed me over the edge was Ben Tune's 'steroids made my knee better, faster' story.

The punishment for the crime? A slap on the wrist and no ban.....I wonder how Garzelli, Simoni, Ullrich and Rumsas feel about that? Rumsas' wife got jailed just for being in posession. Tune got diddly squat for injecting a steroid....

The world has indeed gone mad.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Rumsas' wife got jailed just for being in posession. Tune got diddly squat for injecting a steroid....

Different sports have different interpretations on this. Not to mention different countries. For some reason, every time an Australian tests positive to anything, all we hear is the "innocent mistake" ****. Yeah right, smoke another one, Pal.
 

Animal

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Sep 27, 2002
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[quote author=admin link=board=10;threadid=701;start=0#6602 date=1026171820]<br />Your right, it was out of competition and its abit rough if he gets treated the same as someone who took the same thing the morning of a race.<br /><br />Some more questions could be..............<br /><br />- Can I take enough EPO so to even things up with people who live and train in high mountains?<br />- Can I take Vit C?<br />- Can I use sports drinks instead of water?<br />- Going to bed early and getting lots of sleep helps your performance, can I do that?<br /><br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />EPO has a much larger effect on your haematocrit than living at altitude. Altitude is often misunderstood. It doesn't do your power any good to train at altitude because there is not enough oxygen getting to your muscles to allow you to generate your maximum power, and stress your muscles enough to make them adapt.<br /><br />Altitude will up your haematocrit slightly, but not as much as exogenous EPO.<br /><br />The motto which has been widely used for some time now is &quot;sleep high, train low&quot;<br /><br />As for the other stuff (and other posts I have seen elsewhere)... What's your agenda admin? Are you a cyclist?
 
A

admin

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[quote author=Animal link=board=10;threadid=701;start=0#21492 date=1033729830]<br />What's your agenda admin? Are you a cyclist?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />wtf?
 

Rhodent

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Aug 8, 2002
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I think the reason he asks Steve is because sometimes your posts come through as Admin and not Steve, if one doesn't tie the two up it is a little confusing. If I look at some of the ones coming through under the admin posting they don't neccessarily specify a cyclist (and to someone just seeing admin and not Steve it could be as if there is some techie admin guy who is only on the thread because they are looking after it, not because they are a cyclist). I don;t think any offense was meant (I'll promptly pull back into my shell if this explanations was wrong or unwarranted)
 
A

admin

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[quote author=Rhodent link=board=10;threadid=701;start=15#21516 date=1033993118]<br />I think the reason he asks Steve is because sometimes your posts come through as Admin and not Steve, if one doesn't tie the two up it is a little confusing. If I look at some of the ones coming through under the admin posting they don't neccessarily specify a cyclist (and to someone just seeing admin and not Steve it could be as if there is some techie admin guy who is only on the thread because they are looking after it, not because they are a cyclist). I don;t think any offense was meant (I'll promptly pull back into my shell if this explanations was wrong or unwarranted)<br />[/quote]<br />The usernames are different because my username is 'admin' and my display name is 'Steve', i messed something up when I imported the old messages into this database and posts were added as if a guest posted them :-[ Which only shows the username next to messages.
 

retrogeek

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Aug 18, 2003
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Yes, it has gotten out of hand.

I believe they should test and use strict rules, but use rules that are realistic, and can be abided by. Somebody taking cough medicine, a throat losenge, or an over the counter sports supplement I don't think is really committing any serious offense. But someone could argue, I guess, that there is no way to confirm excuses given for certain offenses.

What I dislike the most is the constant negative attention and press. Test yes, but can't we do it with some discretion. I worry that my son will think that cycling is a sport that should be looked at with a suspicious eye. Or that those outside cycling will think of us as a bunch of junkies, exaggerated of course, but none the less a concern.

I personally can't understand why someone would want to destroy their bodies with that junk, but money will make people go to extremes. I remember reading articles when I was at university documenting steroid abusers and the catastrophic effect it had on their bodies and lives. It made me never want to touch the stuff, racing and winning is not worth all that.

By the way, those drug testing ads are a nice touch on the sidebar, this web site is on the ball!
 

el Ingles

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Oct 3, 2003
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Amber Neben has just recieved a ban after testing positive for nandrolone , fine except nandrolone stays in the system for a minimum of six months and she passed tests ten days before and five days after . This is not the first time this has happened , some years ago ( before the Italian IOC got caught ignoring drug testing in football -- ever wondered why the witch hunt against Pantani ) the mtb rider and twice olympic champion Paola Pezzo also tested for nandrolone but had pased tests two weeks before and ten days after . She was aquited after months of problems , but as the American athletics association has just been caught ignoring positive tests over a period of about fifteen years ( !!!!! ) I don´t think the same will occur to Amber because the Yanks will want to be seen to be " doing something " about doping and in a way that won´t rock too many boats or 5-star life-styles , cyclists being the perfect fall guys ( and girls ) .
The problem is that testing is a big buisness , nobody wants to rock the boat by saying that some of these tests are very unreliable - how many people have been crucified by these tests ? how many others by duff results from sloppy labs ? remember Garzelli ? how did he test for a drug that has not been made for about 8 years ? the last positive for it was Delgado in the tour he won , when it was UCI legal , so what happened ? did a pro cyclist take a med that was years outside it´s sell-by date ? sabotage ? or a duff test ?
Then you have the problem of doping / medication . Nandrolone is a very good drug when used properly , one of the few steroids that don´t cause liver toxicity problems , then there´s EPO etc , now there is no reason for an athlete to take these drugs EXCEPT under very , very special circumstances of medical emergency , but what about salbutamol ( ventalin for us asmatics out there ) , cortisone for a boil on the bum , and all the other meds that are so difficult to avoid in modern life .
And why is canabis on the list of PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS , I mean can you imagine anybody winning anything ( or wanting to ) on the Bob Marley training schedule ? smacks more of morality testing than anything else , so ; how soon before we have nicotine and alcohol testing ?? watch this space .
 

chow

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Sep 28, 2003
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You all don't seem to get it unless you've been tested. There are about 45 registered drugs that go by names unpronounceable, the majority of which are cleverly mfg. in tiny neutral Swtzerland. You see, the Swiss want to neutralize everything. Most drugs are used during training, rarely during real competition. Ullrich was a jerk to put himself in a situation that set him up for a test. He was and is always a pro and in training.
Good food, lots of sleep and absolutely no sex make for a classy rider but do you want to spend the weekend?