Have you ever doped ?



limerickman

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2004
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This, on the face of it, might seem to be a naïve question (from the point of view of expecting any cyclist to admit doing this) but here goes.

Have you ever doped ?
If you have taken stuff – have you suffered any side effects ?
Did it help you to train/cycle harder ?
Do you regret having taken stuff in the first place ?
If you haven’t used dope, have you ever been tempted to do so and why were you tempted ?

I cycled competitively (amateur national level) and I managed to resist the temptation to dope.
I was a good, average cyclist - I trained long and hard for hours on end.
I was what one would call, a good team man.
I was never the best cyclist nor was the worst cyclist either.
But to be honest, I knew that I did not have the ability to ever make a career for myself in cycling, and I was too scared to try using products which would help me to train harder.

I did cycle with three team mates who did dope though.
One team mate died of liver cancer – several years ago – at the age of 32.
Knowledge of his use of dope was, I believe, unknown to his family.
His autopsy showed that his liver was banjaxed from overuse and his doctor suspected that his system couldn’t process the products he was taking.
Another team mate, went to the USA and cycled competitively over there but he subsequently developed a cocaine habit.
The last I heard of him was that his marriage had collapsed and that he had become involved in petty crime to feed his habit.
The third person, is now retired from competitive cycling and his health is fine.
He has suffered no long terms effects from his use of dope and on the face of it, he is
fine (good career,job,marriage).
Three stories – with three different outcomes.
 
Are we talking just performance enhancing doping or does recreational doping count? :D

Seriously, I doubt that you'll have too many folks confessing to doping here as most of us probably haven't reached the level that you have in competition. I think most of the folks here cycle for excercise and fitness, in which case it would seem that doping would be counterproductive. I'm thinking that it's just not much of a temptation until you reach a pretty high level of competition.
 
Originally posted by meehs
Are we talking just performance enhancing doping or does recreational doping count? :D

Seriously, I doubt that you'll have too many folks confessing to doping here as most of us probably haven't reached the level that you have in competition. I think most of the folks here cycle for excercise and fitness, in which case it would seem that doping would be counterproductive. I'm thinking that it's just not much of a temptation until you reach a pretty high level of competition.

Understood.
I meant to to state Performance Enchaning Drugs to improve cycling.
And believe you me - I wasn't a great cyclist by any stretch of the imagination - I happened to be part of a team with some very talented cyclists.

What ever recreational drugs people may use - well that's their business.
I'm just asking about performance enhancers for cycling !
But thanks for clarifying this question - Meehs !
 
I get high before riding. I don't do it for performance enhancement. Just makes the rides more enjoyable.
 
Ah, yes - a little smoke may not make the ride any quicker or longer, but it sure does make the ride more pleasant.

Or as George Carlin once said - you can get off and get on, or you can get on and get off.
 
You would be surprised at how many non-competitive unlicenced riders use dope.

Me, no, but I have tried ephedrine once in a club race and reached an unsettling new max HR, so I won't try it again.
 
Yes I have but they were "legal" steroids (prohormones) to rehab a severly blown up and atrophied knee - to make a long story short. This was with my Dr's knowledge and monitoring by the way.

The effects were truly amazing, not only in strength gains but in recovery time, lactic acid metabolism, and cardio gains. Plus you can keep what you get from them if done right. The down side is you have to know what you're doing or the side effects can be quite scary and dangerous.

Tim
 
Originally posted by Lab_Rat
You would be surprised at how many non-competitive unlicenced riders use dope.

Me, no, but I have tried ephedrine once in a club race and reached an unsettling new max HR, so I won't try it again.

It surprises me that a non-competitive cyclist would use these substances! It seems like it would be counterproductive to me.

I have a question:

These substances are obvioulsy illegal in the professional cycling world. Are they also illegal in "civilian" circumstances? I mean, if you were busted in possession of steroids, HGH or EPO (or any of the commonly abused substances, I don't know what they're called) would you be in violation of the law? The same as if you were in possession of cocaine or heroine or whatever? If so, where do people get ahold of the stuff? Is there an "underground" market for the ****?
 
Lumpy & Labrat,
Thanks for being honest with us.

I know from seeing people who I competed with and against that
they were able to cycle well beyond their natural limitations.

Sorry, I'll rephrase this - they were able to train far, far harder,
thus their fitness levels got higher and higher (and remember
these were fit people to start with - competitve cyclists racing
200 miles each weekend between March-October, as well as training three nights per week and doing gym work on top of this).

Their natural thresholds evaporated when they started doping - and their 'new' thresholds meant that they were fresh as a daisy when they finished, when people like me were dead.
 
Originally posted by meehs
It surprises me that a non-competitive cyclist would use these substances! It seems like it would be counterproductive to me.

I have a question:

These substances are obvioulsy illegal in the professional cycling world. Are they also illegal in "civilian" circumstances? I mean, if you were busted in possession of steroids, HGH or EPO (or any of the commonly abused substances, I don't know what they're called) would you be in violation of the law? The same as if you were in possession of cocaine or heroine or whatever? If so, where do people get ahold of the stuff? Is there an "underground" market for the ****?

The stuff I got was legal and quite effective IMHO. The illegal stuff will get you in trouble if you get caught, but I have no idea about the penalty for "personal use". Distributing it however I'm sure is another ballgame :eek:

The illegal stuff is pretty easy to get it seems. All you have to do is hang aroung in bodybuilding web forums and make aquaintances. There is quite an underground market here in the US and it's readily available from overseas.

I lucked out, if you want to call it that, in having a Dr. who understood the medical efficacy of steroids for situations like mine.

Tim
 
Originally posted by limerickman
Lumpy & Labrat,
Thanks for being honest with us.

I know from seeing people who I competed with and against that
they were able to cycle well beyond their natural limitations.

Sorry, I'll rephrase this - they were able to train far, far harder,
thus their fitness levels got higher and higher (and remember
these were fit people to start with - competitve cyclists racing
200 miles each weekend between March-October, as well as training three nights per week and doing gym work on top of this).

Their natural thresholds evaporated when they started doping - and their 'new' thresholds meant that they were fresh as a daisy when they finished, when people like me were dead.

I guess one plus of the internet is it's anonymity and therefore one can be honest!

I agree about the moving of thresholds. My own experience was freaky how much you can gain in a short period - and with "legal" stuff.

However this stuff is dangerous and not at all tested for long term risks. Don't anyone consider it unless a Dr. says it's ok!

I got what I needed from them however - a knee that should be good for another 10 years when it'll need to be replaced. Also I get to do something that it looked like i'd never be able to do again - go on real bike rides!

Tim
 
Actually, most of the products used are not illegal in everyday use. Take EPO, for example. It is a scheduled drug and can be legally used to treat a condition. (I think it's something to do with liver failure or cancer). Ephedrine and caffeine are available in many countries as an "over-the-counter" (non-prescription) diet product. Most of the hormones (testorones etc) are also used to treat conditions as is human growth hormone which is used to treat dwarfism. So actual possession by normal people, with the necessary prescriptions is not illegal, as it would be with a narcotic like, for example Cocaine or heroine.

The reason why these products are "scheduled" is because of the often extreme side-effects. (If you had to look at chemo therapy for example) the process actually nearly kills off the body that is being treated. Let's use the term "collateral damage" very loosely. These other products, while probably not quite as extreme, have similar damaging consequences, especially if there is no condition that requires treatment.

This is my understanding as a layman. I am an international trade consultant and we often have to classifiy medicaments for import purposes, and this is how I've gained a little knowledge over the scheduling status of some products.

Further, the reason why the riders that get caught with doping products are prosecuted in normal courts of law, is because they are essentially, as I understand it, being charged with fraud. It is not a similar charge to a narcotics related charge. (I may be mistaken though)
 
A doping story here I am a cross county skier in my county I was one of the top juniors traditional route for skiers in my country was join the Military which allowed full time training I was a national junior champion I have high Vo2 88% and good lactic acid threshold looking forward to competing with the seniors (some of who i was beating as a junior) at 23 I would be good for a few races and then fade It’s was then put to me by a Team Coach and Doctor that I would never reach top level without assistance from the Doctor nobody does, so I ask what assistance various products were said does this include EPO as rumors had been circulating about this wonder drug that the Italian cyclists had been using(this is when EPO had just come onto the scene) they said that was one of the options a then asked what about drug testing to which he said you have not heard of any of your team mates being tested positive have you. I declined no further pressure was put on me next season I had a bad injury and was not able to do as much base training during the summer I was a few kilo overweight but still go picked for the team but suffered badly

After another visit from the Doctor I agreed to go on a program I never tested positive i was not even sure what I was taking I only know that I was really very strong recovery was good I could train harder for longer. But there was something that was not right most of my team mater were on drug’s but I constantly worried what effect this stuff would have on me on one training ski I just stopped coasted back went home and have never raced since then.

When I see athletes winning Olympic medals and winning the Tour de France they are getting the same advice I had the same coaches and Doctors are still around today if you think you can compete against drug takers and win you are crazy I don’t care how high your physical and physiological testing is there is someone out there with similar test results on a program and he is going to beat you.
 
Lab_Rat said:
..... <snip>....Further, the reason why the riders that get caught with doping products are prosecuted in normal courts of law, is because they are essentially, as I understand it, being charged with fraud. It is not a similar charge to a narcotics related charge. (I may be mistaken though)

In France and Italy it is sporting fraud.

However, most riders are being caught from police raids with drugs in their possession that require a prescription. If they cannot provide a legal reason for possessing those drugs by producing a prescription then they have committed an offence against the law by having forbidden products in their possession.

From the UCI aspect, it is an anti doping rule violation to have in your possession a prohibited substance or a prohibited method. If you are caught with forbidden products in your possession which are on the banned list then you have no option than to run up the white flag or verge on the ridiculous and claim the drugs were for your dog!

It is indicative of the state of play within the cycling doping system that most doping infractions arise from being caught in possession by non sporting authorities and not from UCI/WADA doping tests. It is circumstantial evidence that riders, teams and their medical support are ahead of WADA's game.
 
limerickman said:
This, on the face of it, might seem to be a naïve question (from the point of view of expecting any cyclist to admit doing this) but here goes.

Have you ever doped ?
If you have taken stuff – have you suffered any side effects ?
Did it help you to train/cycle harder ?
Do you regret having taken stuff in the first place ?
If you haven’t used dope, have you ever been tempted to do so and why were you tempted ?

I cycled competitively (amateur national level) and I managed to resist the temptation to dope.
I was a good, average cyclist - I trained long and hard for hours on end.
I was what one would call, a good team man.
I was never the best cyclist nor was the worst cyclist either.
But to be honest, I knew that I did not have the ability to ever make a career for myself in cycling, and I was too scared to try using products which would help me to train harder.

I did cycle with three team mates who did dope though.
One team mate died of liver cancer – several years ago – at the age of 32.
Knowledge of his use of dope was, I believe, unknown to his family.
His autopsy showed that his liver was banjaxed from overuse and his doctor suspected that his system couldn’t process the products he was taking.
Another team mate, went to the USA and cycled competitively over there but he subsequently developed a cocaine habit.
The last I heard of him was that his marriage had collapsed and that he had become involved in petty crime to feed his habit.
The third person, is now retired from competitive cycling and his health is fine.
He has suffered no long terms effects from his use of dope and on the face of it, he is
fine (good career,job,marriage).
Three stories – with three different outcomes.
I was a competitor way back ....... Not a real good one . Unless the course was flat, then I was very talented in the last 500 meters. I tried amphetimines during a time trial which was just a training run...... Scared the hell out of me. But I did witness a few riders from out of state using something injected once. And they were fast.
I love cycling ..... I love the European version. But with the doping busts, allegations , and all the other non-riding issues in the sport today, I have re-discovered the local scene...... Yeah , maybe there are some dopers at that level... The biggest issue these riders face is finding the hours away from jobs, family , and life itself to train........
 
I have never doped, but I have been tempted. I have taken stuff like optygen and sportlegs and never felt it did much for me. I never doped because the possible side effects scared me away. I did not want to end up dead from liver failure or cancer, especially since I am not a pro cyclist and do not have the contacts, talent, or time to devote to becoming a pro cyclist. Why take those risks to win a pair of fingerless gloves or a ribbon?
I did have a friend that is/was on dope, he would go from not riding for a better part of a year, show up to a ride and be dropped. Then 3 weeks later, he would be dominating the ride and cruising along with a heart rate of 101 while the rest of the group was at 150-170. He has also since dropped out of riding, been in and out of rehab, lost his job, and suffered personal relationship problems. I think I made the right choice.
 
GIFF07 said:
I think I made the right choice.

Trust me, you have made the right choice.

I have seen plenty of guys and girls just like your friend and like you say for the prize is pennies in comparison to the grief that goes along with it.

Just to confirm that the following statement is not coming from a bitter loser.

I have won a number of competitions, spent thousands of dollars to win cheap trophies which are now collecting dust and are one step from the garbage can. I ended up in divorce, risked my freedom, my career and a number of frienships because my outward personality was so abrasive and volatile.

Again you made the right choice.
 
Yep. Not overly proud of it.

Certainly didn't turn me into Stuart O'Grady.