Have you found this Tour 2005 boring?

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by mareblu, Jul 18, 2005.

  1. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Yep, you didn't see the 2005 Giro - so as usual, you have no idea what you're talking about.

    The Giro wasn't hotly contested ?
    The result was in doubt to the last stage of the race.

    The again, ya didn't see it, so you don't know what you're talking about.

    Really ?
    Di Luca, Cunego, Simoni, Petacchi have all skipped the 2005 TDF.
    Freire, Bettini have skipped the 2005 TDF.

    Instead of posting waffle, try to think before you post.
    You have an uncanny ability to get it wrong each and every time.

    You told us earlier that you're a cyclist : I expect it does take time to complete your circuit.

    http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/work/freightmate/splash.html
     


  2. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    I have been fortunate to see every TDF since 1983 on television.

    In that time, I can only count four really exciting T'sDF :

    1987 Roche (for obvious reasons, being from Ireland)
    1989 Lemond (8 sec win over Fignon)
    1996 Riis (simply because he managed to beat MI)
    2003 Because it was a relatively exciting contest.

    The rest of the T'DF have been pretty much mundane, except for isolated stages where there have been incredible breakaway stage victories.

    As a spectacle, for that period of time, 4 T's DF out of 21 is pretty bad.
     
  3. gntlmn

    gntlmn New Member

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    Nope! I don't find it boring. In fact, most people are only now appreciating just how good Armstrong is in the Tour. With his cancer comeback, fans are in a perpetual state of disbelief. They needed all 7 Tour years to learn that he's no flash in the pan. He may have been stronger had he never gotten cancer, but you have to hand it to him. He certainly has played the hand he was dealt very well. I'm relieved that he accomplished this without a relapse and in such dominating fashion. Yes, I'm eager to see the emergence of a new star next year, but this past string from Armstrong has been very interesting. I'm glad to have had the opportunity to view major Tour history. He's aged like fine wine, getting better with age.
     
  4. guncha

    guncha New Member

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    Tour isn't over yet but I have to admit that it is amazing so far. The only moment I didn't like was when Valverde left the race. I hate when Lance loses his rivals in a way like that.
     
  5. Crankster

    Crankster New Member

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    This is why you are almost as annoying as Flyer. The arrogance of telling other people about stuff you have no idea about. I guess namecalling or telling me "you have no knowledge of cycling" like mitosis does, is easier than arguing a point.

    I cannot and do not need to prove to you that I did indeed watch every minute of Giro'05, just like you do cannot prove that you do not wear women's underwear right now, for example. See what I mean with namecalling vs. facts?

    Find me where I said it wasn't hotly contested, whatever it means. Can you read? It was closely contested. It is also not comparable to the Tour in terms of the level of the field.


    Translation: I cannot come up with any arguments, so instead I will return to namecalling. EXCELLENT, dude!




    Learn to read, Limerickman. For every guy who skips Tour there are 5 who skip Giro. All of the guys you mentioned are italian. Giro pretty much turns into all-italian tour, with Vuelta pretty much all-spanish competition. Top 5 guys in the Tour would spank top 5 guys in Giro any time. This is why Simoni is all talk about how he can demolish Armstrong in the Tour and yet cannot deliver.


    Namecalling again?! Did you ever notice how other people argue facts and how you use personal attacks? It's really obvious to others and undermines whatever knowledge you may have.

    I will repeat my premise so you can't quote it out of context: "Tour attracts a much stronger field than Giro or Vuelta. Winning the Tour is much more prestigious than the other two GT. Winning a stage at the Tour is much more prestigious than winning a stage at Giro/Vuelta.

    The fact that there are no "breakaways" in the Tour (and as I pointed out, there are plenty - every mountain stage so far had a successful one, want to argue the facts?!) is a result of the competitiveness of the field, not neccessarily Lance Armstrong's presence as was argued. Is this so hard to comprehend for you? Are you going to argue that Giro had a stronger field than Tour?

    Now I think you are delusional as I do not recall posting much about myself or my "circuits" here. Before you fly off the handle with your personal attacks you should really make sure that you at least actually read what that person posts.

    Seriously, can you be any more annoying? I guess I should be flattered as losing your cool means you know you are losing your debate, or that you lost some other debates, why else would you make up stuff and retort to personal insults? Hmm?


    By the way, you never took me on my friendly wager. Since I apparently "have no idea" what I am talking about, perhaps you should have done so. The offer is still open, interested, limerickman?

    Ugh.
     
  6. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    Think of how strong LA will be at age 65?

    Normally hormone levels taper off after age 25, and even more after radiation and chemo.

    But not this kid---he and Hincapie increase their hormone production as time goes on.

    If you doesn't have a heart failure, this can go on for another 7 Tours.

    It's great to imagine anti-aging as yet another PED benefit. Is not science fascinating?

    The sprinter jersey is the only race. Robbie is the fastest and we lost Boonen---but the DQ kept it close.

    If they changed the rules for GC from time to points, Baden Cooke or Bradley McGee would win the Tour.




     
  7. mareblu

    mareblu New Member

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    I watched the Giro this year and I will have to agree that it was much more entertaining than the Tour. But it is likewise true that, there is no other stronger candidate than Lance to win this year once again. I suppose when Merck, Indurain, Hinault were riding and winning Tours, they too were boring? or weren't they?

    Thanks for replying guys.......
     
  8. mr tibbs

    mr tibbs New Member

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    and that about sums it up. when the outcome is never in question (except for second place, third, etc) it can be kind of boring; unless you just really love seeing lance spin all over the competition. but i would like a closer finish, no matter who wins.


    individual stages are still exciting, but the gc may as well have been pre-determined. lance is a spectacular rider, but it's just like that hurdle guy mentioned above...a fantastical athletic feat made boring by it's repetitiveness/predictabillity. maybe if jan wouldn't have crashed so much it would have been a contest between the two of them, but probably not even then.

    oh well, what the hell...
     
  9. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    No point in editing and pasting the parts that you have got wrong again in this latest post of waffle.

    You did say that the Giro was less contested " Part of the difference between Giro and Tour is that Tour is much more competitive, with every single stage very hotly contested."

    The guys I listed weren't all Italian : Freire is Spanish at the last count.

    The TDF is not necessarily stronger than the Giro/Vuelta.

    As regards your erroneous contention about no breakaways in the TDF :
    see Vino's win, Hincapies win, Totschnigs win : no breakaways indeed.
    Amazing how you get it wrong every time.

    As for your wager : I don't recall your wager.
     
  10. Crankster

    Crankster New Member

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    I SAID there were PLENTY of breakaways. The original poster blamed LA for lack of breakaways and I responded pointing out that EVERY mountain stage had a successful breakaway. Learn to read my posts before you start spewing your responses full of namecalling. Are you posting drunk or something? Or you can't remember the post you are replying to?

    Look, you really need to go back and learn some basic etiquette of internet postings before you come back and start calling names.

    Here's what I suggest - go back and read my posts. Find my posts where I claimed to NOT have watched Giro. Find my posts about "being a cyclist" or anything about my "curcuits". Find my posts where I claimed there were NO breakaways in the Tour. Find my posts claiming Giro wasn't closely contested.

    After you realize that I posted no such thing, I suggest you come back and apologize.

    Your credibility has taken a serious hit here, limerickman. I am disappointed, you should be ashamed of the way you behave on this board.
     
  11. rejobako

    rejobako New Member

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    Given that you're addressing an Irishman, I presume that question was rhetorical.
     
  12. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    It was his attempt to insult me and/or my nationality.
     
  13. Crankster

    Crankster New Member

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    This one is for limerickman. Read this a 1,000 times and then post
    "I will read the posts carefully before retorting to namecalling" a few times on this board.

    This board, especially limerickman, Flyer and mitosis are leaving a terrible taste in my mouth. Someone should educate those three in basic etiquette of debating. Such as reading the posts they are replying to, and not responding to factual statements with "obviously you have no clue" without any factual statements on their part.

    Limerickman - if you confused me with someone else, then perhaps you owe me an explanation and an apology.

    If however, your posts are just a way of trolling for attention, or bullying posters who win arguments against you, this is pretty pathetic - insecure bully looking for self-gratification on the cycling boards? This is the crown you may keep.
     
  14. meehs

    meehs New Member

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    You make a good point here Limerickman. It's rare that the TdF is really exciting. I pretty much agree with those you listed above as being the most exciting in recent history, with LeMond over Fignon in 1989 being my personal favorite. That one could very well be the most exciting TdF ever IMO.
     
  15. Crankster

    Crankster New Member

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    Limerickman, over here! Read this one. Then go back and re-read original posts, starting with post #1.

    Translation for limerickman:
    One of the early posters: "there are no breakaways"
    Me: "every mountain stage ended with a successful breakaway, flat stage breakaways got caught primarily because of sprinter teams"
    Several posts later...
    Me (again): "there were plenty of breakaways - every mountain stage so far had a successful one, and breakaways being caught on the flats are because of strong fields interested in the sprints"

    Will you ever admit that you tried to put the words in my mouth that argued EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what I actually argued? knowing your bloated arrogance and your dirty tricks I wouldn't hold my breath. You are always right, your majesty! :)
     
  16. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    I'm not here to bully you or anyone else for that matter.

    But I find some of the statements and opinions which you have expressed to be inaccurate and wrong.
    Like " Part of the difference between Giro and Tour is that Tour is much more competitive, with every single stage very hotly contested." which was on page 1 of this thread and which you posted.

    You also wrongly stated that I listed only Italian Giro competitors who weren't at the 2005 TDF : that is wrong also. Freire is Spanish. Freire did the Giro and he hasn't gone to the TDF.

    If I was to attempt to list every single statement which you have posted that is factually incorrect, I would be here until next week writing.
     
  17. Crankster

    Crankster New Member

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    Let's argue the facts. Tour does indeed attract a much stronger field than Giro. I think most cycling fans will agree with me.

    As to Freire - I was responding to the first sentence where you mentioned DiLuca, Simoni, Petacchi and Cunego. Cunego is sick but otherwise he would probably take part in the Tour. Petacchi has shown plenty of domination in the sprints at the Tour, and if anything, his team would only add to "boringness" factor of the Tour as Fassa Bortolo would bring back breakaways on flats.
    This is all beyond the point as the original argument was about too much domination on GC (by Lance and Disco team) as the reason for "boringness" of the Tour. Lance does nothing to diminish excitement in terms of race for green jersey, which was quite exciting IMPO for the last couple of years.
    But even then, the sprints in the Tour are quite a bit more competitive, again in my personal opinion. This is not to say that Giro or Vuelta doesn't have a good sprinter or two. Just that the field of sprinters for the Tour is more competitive.

    Now, to get back to original point that was lost here - Bettitni, Petacchi, Freiro, don't do much to contribute to the GC competition in Giro. Simoni was never much of a factor in the Tour, despite his several attempts (and a lot of "talk" about showing LA and Ullrich who the "real" climbers are).

    Makes me wonder what the Tour would be this year without Lance.
    One could argue that CSC would still take yellow with Zabriskie dominating the field by almost a minute. They would arguably strengthen their lead after amazing TTT, as a big part of Disco's effort was by LA and to get LA into yellow. So they would probably retain yellow with a substantial lead over the rest of the field. Rasmussen would never be let go, at least not by 6 min, and Voigt would have worked to protect yellow instead of breaking away. Basso would get yellow in stage 10 from his teammate Zabriskie or Voigt and would hold it until today, but increasing his lead every mountain stage. Everyone complains about CSC making the race boring by holding yellow from day 1.
     
  18. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    WhiteboyTrash stated this.

    Message 4 - posted by you - no argument from me that you wrote message 4.
    Message 4 is Your reply to WBT, not me.

    No, because message 25, posted by you in reply to me, contradicts message 4, posted by you in reply to WBT :

    Message 25 "The fact that there are no "breakaways" in the Tour (and as I pointed out, there are plenty - every mountain stage so far had a successful one, want to argue the facts?!) is a result of the competitiveness of the field, not neccessarily Lance Armstrong's presence as was argued."

    So either there are breakaways (message 4) or there are no breakaways messages 25.
    You wrote message 4 and message 25.

    Incidentally, I never commented on stage breakaways between message 1-25.
    So why you included the point about stage breakaways in your reply to me
    (message 25) is puzzling.

    I suggest that it's you who is confused as to who posted what, and when.
     
  19. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    The TDF is the most prestigious race on the calandar.
    And until recently it did attract all of the great champions, as a matter of course.
    But the downside to the notion of specialisation is that the TDF, which is still the most prestigious race, hasn't always attracted the very best riders competing against each other, across all categories of cycling.

    Several of the top cyclists over the years have chosen not to ride the TDF.
    This is because they may have decided to concentrate on events that are more pertinent to their sponsors interests or their own individual objectives.
    Of course the sprint stages of the TDF are competitive, but what merit do the sprints have without Petacchi ?
    What merit do the road stages have without Bettini (World Cup and Olympic Road Race champion) or Freire or DiLuca ?
    The sprints and road race stages would be enhanced with their presence, I think.
    TDF GC would be enhanced with the presence of Cunego.

    The opposite applies of course, the Giro and Vuelta would be enhanced by the presence of LA or JU too.
     
  20. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    and don't forget get the creation of the ProTour will make the Giro a more prestigious event as the points are not that far off from the Tour…….

     
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