Head rests and M5 seats

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Don, Oct 29, 2003.

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  1. Don

    Don Guest

    I did a search and found nothing very useful. I just put a CF-M5 on my custom Giro. To ride it
    reclined enough to not fall off the almost nonexistant bottom, I will need a headrest.

    I know Optima makes one but it is as heavy as a brick. Kind of defeats one benefit of the M5.
    I would appreciate hearing all experience with headrests including ride experience, vendors,
    DIY ideas.

    Thanks, Don
     
    Tags:


  2. I am confused by this headrest business. I tried one many a long year ago and found it made my head
    vibrate enough to blur my vision. I've never felt any need for one on the Baron - I've just got a
    small piece of foam glued to the tailbox behind my neck for a little extra comfort over the bumps.

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================
     
  3. Mick

    Mick Guest

    I have a M5 CF headrest on my Reynolds T-Bone Dual 650. It doesn't work well for me. I used it for
    nearly a year. The design doesn't work well when wearing a helmet. But my major problem is road
    vibration. The headrest picks up every bit of road vibration. Save your money and adjust your seat
    where you don't need it. I don't use one on my Aero and it is very comfortable for me.

    BentMick
     
  4. Mark V

    Mark V Guest

    [email protected] (Don) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I did a search and found nothing very useful. I just put a CF-M5 on my custom Giro. To ride it
    > reclined enough to not fall off the almost nonexistant bottom, I will need a headrest.
    >
    > I know Optima makes one but it is as heavy as a brick. Kind of defeats one benefit of the M5.
    > I would appreciate hearing all experience with headrests including ride experience, vendors,
    > DIY ideas.
    >
    > Thanks, Don
    Don, When you find one, let me know. I fabricated one out of a short piece of vinyl downspout and
    wrapped the top with a fleece material for cusioning. It actually didn't look too bad and of course
    it was light. I found that I only actually rested my head when riding with my wife and coasting
    (while she peddaled fiercely) but I never installed it on my new (larger) seat. Mark
     
  5. Tom Blum

    Tom Blum Guest

    The answer to this problem is at least two part.

    First: When you begin to ride in a very reclined position ( approaching 30 degrees) your neck
    muscles DO protest vigorously. Much of this goea away with conditioning (Just riding that way) After
    a week or less, much of the percieved strain in gone.

    Second: The fit of the seat to you. This one is not given much attention. Are you big? Get a large.
    Are you Small, get a small. etc. In reality, there is some distance from your Butt to the nape of
    your neck, that should match the seat for optimum comfort. No one knows, or will admit to knowing,
    what to measure and how to measure it. When I made a seat, I asked and got no replies beyond try it
    out and change if not happy. With an accessory costing hundreds, this isn't much of an option.

    Third: The vibration thing and helmet interference are real. I have found that a foam pad, tailored
    to fit you, giving some support at the base of the skull/top of the nape of the neck, gives the best
    results. I still end up looking "down my nose" more than I like, and when the sun is high I have to
    wear a cap under my helmet.

    Hope this helps.

    --
    Miles of Smiles,

    Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone High Racer Clone
    www.gate.net/~teblum
     
  6. Don

    Don Guest

    Thanks for the feedback everyone.

    BentMick, As far as repositioning the seat. If I don't lean the darn M5, I slide off but my shorts
    don't. This results in a supreme wedgie that would be envied by any DF rider. The seat has to be
    reclined but I am trying for the minimum. Even at the minimum, my neck suffers. I looked at the M5
    CF headrest and realized it would not work. The CF seat is rough riding and noisey, I can't imagine
    what it would be like as a headrest also. I was hoping the round, foam ones like Optima makes would
    be better and also work with a helmet.

    John, Dave---which style did you use that caused too much vibration? I was hoping the foam was soft
    enough to be a shock absorber. Maybe that was wishful thinking. It looks like I will have to throw
    the CF seat in the trash where it belongs and put my Bacchetta mesh seat back on. Don
     
  7. Don

    Don Guest

    Thanks Tom, I am not sure I can last long enough on the M5 to get my neck used to it. How do you get
    used to the top poking you in the spine? Anyway, Bacchetta only has one size seat.

    "Tom Blum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<e4bob.13[email protected]>...
    > The answer to this problem is at least two part.
    >
    > First: When you begin to ride in a very reclined position ( approaching 30 degrees) your neck
    > muscles DO protest vigorously. Much of this goea away with conditioning (Just riding that way)
    > After a week or less, much of the percieved strain in gone.
    >
    > Second: The fit of the seat to you. This one is not given much attention. Are you big? Get a
    > large. Are you Small, get a small. etc. In reality, there is some distance from your Butt to the
    > nape of your neck, that should match the seat for optimum comfort. No one knows, or will admit to
    > knowing, what to measure and how to measure it. When I made a seat, I asked and got no replies
    > beyond try it out and change if not happy. With an accessory costing hundreds, this isn't much of
    > an option.
    >
    > Third: The vibration thing and helmet interference are real. I have found that a foam pad,
    > tailored to fit you, giving some support at the base of the skull/top of the nape of the neck,
    > gives the best results. I still end up looking "down my nose" more than I like, and when the sun
    > is high I have to wear a cap under my helmet.
    >
    > Hope this helps.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Miles of Smiles,
    >
    > Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone High Racer
    > Clone www.gate.net/~teblum
     
  8. John Foltz

    John Foltz Guest

    Don wrote:
    >
    > John, Dave---which style did you use that caused too much vibration? I was hoping the foam was
    > soft enough to be a shock absorber. Maybe that was wishful thinking. It looks like I will have to
    > throw the CF seat in the trash where it belongs and put my Bacchetta mesh seat back on. Don
    >
    Maybe you should throw that old useless seat my way so I can dispose of it for you. Yeah, dispose of
    it for you - that's the ticket!!!

    Mine is just a strip of cf material, maybe 2 layers, about 2.5 inches wide. I got a 3 inch length of
    pool noodle (closed cell stuff) and slit it, then put it over the exposed end of the cf and glued it
    in place. It reaches to just below my helmet. There's some bounce to it, but you would have to use
    *very* soft foam to get rid of road vibrations. Also, I find riding with my head fixed in place to
    be very distracting.
    --

    John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24 --- _\\/\-%)
    _________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____
     
  9. George

    George Guest

    Don,

    don't throw it in the trash - send it to me. I'll even pay the postage! What size is it by the way?

    George

    > It looks like I will have to throw the CF seat in the trash where it belongs and put my Bacchetta
    > mesh seat back on. Don
     
  10. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    "Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am confused by this headrest business. I tried one many a long year ago and found it made my
    > head vibrate enough to blur my vision. I've never
    felt
    > any need for one on the Baron - I've just got a small piece of foam glued
    to
    > the tailbox behind my neck for a little extra comfort over the bumps.
    >
    > Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    > ===========================================================
    > Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    > http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    > ===========================================================

    I only use mine when I'm resting or stopped, I have the same experience as you if using it more than
    that although I'd rather have the thing anyway
     
  11. Don, As it is with ANY SEAT they just don't work for some people. Some seem to get it in their head
    that since a seat is uncomfortable for them it must be for most others. Or visa versa. I just traded
    a standard seat for an M5 (Corsa)...customer was uncomfortable on the M5....siatic nerve issue. Last
    year I loaned a customer my spare M5 seat and she rode it for a month on her Giro. She now has an
    M5. This was a tailbone issue with the stock seat. She says the M5 relieved the problem. As you can
    see there a more than enough takers out there for the M5. With the exception of the AERO its nice
    that the Bacchetta's can use either seat. Currently not so with the Volae.
    --
    Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
    Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Don" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks Tom, I am not sure I can last long enough on the M5 to get my neck used to it. How do you
    > get used to the top poking you in the spine? Anyway, Bacchetta only has one size seat.
    >
    >
    > "Tom Blum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > The answer to this problem is at least two part.
    > >
    > > First: When you begin to ride in a very reclined position ( approaching
    30
    > > degrees) your neck muscles DO protest vigorously. Much of this goea away with conditioning (Just
    > > riding that way) After a week or less, much of
    the
    > > percieved strain in gone.
    > >
    > > Second: The fit of the seat to you. This one is not given much
    attention.
    > > Are you big? Get a large. Are you Small, get a small. etc. In reality,
    there
    > > is some distance from your Butt to the nape of your neck, that should
    match
    > > the seat for optimum comfort. No one knows, or will admit to knowing,
    what
    > > to measure and how to measure it. When I made a seat, I asked and got no replies beyond try it
    > > out and change if not happy. With an accessory
    costing
    > > hundreds, this isn't much of an option.
    > >
    > > Third: The vibration thing and helmet interference are real. I have
    found
    > > that a foam pad, tailored to fit you, giving some support at the base of
    the
    > > skull/top of the nape of the neck, gives the best results. I still end
    up
    > > looking "down my nose" more than I like, and when the sun is high I have
    to
    > > wear a cap under my helmet.
    > >
    > > Hope this helps.
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Miles of Smiles,
    > >
    > > Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone High Racer
    > > Clone www.gate.net/~teblum
     
  12. Steve In Sc

    Steve In Sc Guest

    [email protected] (Don) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I did a search and found nothing very useful. I just put a CF-M5 on my custom Giro. To ride it
    > reclined enough to not fall off the almost nonexistant bottom, I will need a headrest.
    >
    > I know Optima makes one but it is as heavy as a brick. Kind of defeats one benefit of the M5.
    > I would appreciate hearing all experience with headrests including ride experience, vendors,
    > DIY ideas.
    >
    > Thanks, Don

    Don,

    I own a M5 Shock Proof, which I ride with the seat in the full 23 degree recline. I do not use, or
    need, a head rest. However, you can not become accustomed to the M5 seat all at one go. It takes
    weeks to adapt to what is admittedly an extreme and unnatural position. Start with 10 mile, or even
    5 mile rides, if necessary. Persevere, and you'll soon get the hang of it. Then your only problem
    will be getting the thick-witted buffons on the DF bikes to get the hell out of the way as you
    plunge down hill at near terminal velocity.
     
  13. Don

    Don Guest

    I keep riding the M5 to give it a fair chance. I know some love the seat. I also know it is not for
    everybody. My last two rides have been with the seat fully reclined on the stays and the seat
    bracket about 3/4" behind the chain idler bracket.

    32 miles yesterday and today I have a headache and pain between my shoulders where the seat top hit.
    Also, my middle back is sore. Nothing debilitating. Need to give it some more miles. Glad it is
    going to rain today so I do not have to feel guilty for not getting back on the horse. Don
     
  14. Cbb

    Cbb Guest

    "Tom Blum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > The answer to this problem is at least two part.

    > Second: The fit of the seat to you. This one is not given much attention. Are you big? Get a
    > large. Are you Small, get a small. etc. In reality, there is some distance from your Butt to the
    > nape of your neck, that should match the seat for optimum comfort. No one knows, or will admit to
    > knowing, what to measure and how to measure it. When I made a seat, I asked and got no replies
    > beyond try it out and change if not happy. With an accessory costing hundreds, this isn't much of
    > an option.
    >
    >
    > Tom Blum

    This is definately right and I am surprised that Bacchetta does not have several sizes. I had an
    Optima Baron which has a recline of ~20 degree. I first had a "Large[1]" seat and had trouble
    supporting my head. I determine that the upturn at the top of the seat was too far from the base. So
    I got a "Medium[1]" seat which was much more comfortable. I had ordered a head rest with the bike
    but after getting the correct size seat I found no need for it. The M5 seat does not appear to have
    as much or an upturn at the top and so maybe a little more difficult to get comfortable. The Swanson
    seat looks to be pretty well designed though I can't figure out why his seat is wider in the waist
    where the least weight is supported.

    Craig

    [1] The Dutch must be a very tall people as of the three sizes "M", "L", "XL" at 6'2" normal
    proportioned I fit best on the smallest seat ("M"). What size is the person who fits best on the
    "XL" seat?
     
  15. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    cbb wrote:
    > ...
    > [1] The Dutch must be a very tall people as of the three sizes "M", "L", "XL" at 6'2" normal
    > proportioned I fit best on the smallest seat ("M"). What size is the person who fits best on
    > the "XL" seat?

    I have read that on average, the Dutch are the tallest people in Europe. For sizing M5 seats, keep
    in mind that M5 designer/proprietor Bram Moens is about ~2 meters (~6' 6") tall.

    Tom Sherman - Recumbent Pedant

    "Don't Have a Cow, Man!" - Bart Simpson
     
  16. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > cbb wrote:
    > > ...
    > > [1] The Dutch must be a very tall people as of the three sizes "M", "L", "XL" at 6'2" normal
    > > proportioned I fit best on the smallest seat ("M"). What size is the person who fits best on
    > > the "XL" seat?
    >
    > I have read that on average, the Dutch are the tallest people in Europe. For sizing M5 seats, keep
    > in mind that M5 designer/proprietor Bram Moens is about ~2 meters (~6' 6") tall.
    >
    > Tom Sherman - Recumbent Pedant
    >
    > "Don't Have a Cow, Man!" - Bart Simpson

    That would explain why the dealer who sold me my Baron said he always has to cut at least 2 inches
    off the boom
     
  17. Mark Leuck wrote:

    > That would explain why the dealer who sold me my Baron said he always has to cut at least 2 inches
    > off the boom

    Quite. I'm 6'3" and Darth Ian had to saw a chunk of my Baron's boom. How Messrs. English and
    Whittingham got their pedals close enough is a question for finer minds than mine...

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================
     
  18. Steve In Sc

    Steve In Sc Guest

    Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > cbb wrote:
    > > ...
    > > [1] The Dutch must be a very tall people as of the three sizes "M", "L", "XL" at 6'2" normal
    > > proportioned I fit best on the smallest seat ("M"). What size is the person who fits best on
    > > the "XL" seat?
    >
    > I have read that on average, the Dutch are the tallest people in Europe. For sizing M5 seats, keep
    > in mind that M5 designer/proprietor Bram Moens is about ~2 meters (~6' 6") tall.
    >
    > Tom Sherman - Recumbent Pedant
    >
    > "Don't Have a Cow, Man!" - Bart Simpson

    I suppose that is because all the short Dutch people drown every time one of their dykes give way.
    Only the truly tall Dutch live to pass on their DNA. If Darwin had only gone to Holland he could
    have spared himself a rather long and arduous trip to the Galapagos Islands.
     
  19. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Dave Larrington wrote:
    >
    > Mark Leuck wrote:
    >
    > > That would explain why the dealer who sold me my Baron said he always has to cut at least 2
    > > inches off the boom
    >
    > Quite. I'm 6'3" and Darth Ian had to saw a chunk of my Baron's boom. How Messrs. English and
    > Whittingham got their pedals close enough is a question for finer minds than mine...

    Here is a picture of a ~5 foot (~1.5m) tall rider on a Baron. (The seat on this bike has been moved
    forward from the stock position.)

    <http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/misc/BaronBarb-sm.jpg>

    Tom Sherman - Recumbent Pedant

    "Don't Have a Cow, Man!" - Bart Simpson
     
  20. Steve in SC wrote:

    > If Darwin had only gone to Holland he could have > spared himself a rather
    long and arduous trip to
    > the Galapagos Islands.

    Possibly. Or one of the dykes might have given way, and drowned him...

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================
     
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