Headset facing steel frame.



tk49

New Member
Dec 30, 2006
14
0
0
I need some help.

My 45 degree bearingseats of my headset is not flat anymore.
I can press the cartridge bearings up and down with my fngers so the conclusion is pretty easy it needs a refacing.

Now does anybody know someone who has this tool (must be EU) AND have the skill in handling this tricky job.

On my bearings it has the following info.

41.8 x 30.5
45 x 45 degree

The headset is a IS system and the bearings run straight in the head of the steel frame.

Also if anybody has a good alternative besides buying a new frrame than share this with me.

One tip i got was to glue the bearings in.
Anybody got some experiences with that.
It sounds like a good option next to the facing.
 

alfeng

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2005
6,723
254
63
tk49 said:
I need some help.

My 45 degree bearingseats of my headset is not flat anymore.
I can press the cartridge bearings up and down with my fngers so the conclusion is pretty easy it needs a refacing.

Now does anybody know someone who has this tool (must be EU) AND have the skill in handling this tricky job.

On my bearings it has the following info.

41.8 x 30.5
45 x 45 degree

The headset is a IS system and the bearings run straight in the head of the steel frame.

Also if anybody has a good alternative besides buying a new frrame than share this with me.

One tip i got was to glue the bearings in.
Anybody got some experiences with that.
It sounds like a good option next to the facing.
FWIW. Re-facing the headtube is probably the LAST thing you want to do ...

How did this happen?!?

Was the stem not secured properly on the headtube?!?

Is the headtube ovalized?!?

Is the current headset one of those CAMPY 1" integrated headsets (circa 2000)?!?

Are you sure there is actually a problem with the cartridge & headtube?

If it is a Campy 1" integrated headset (and, probably applicable to some others), then the two halves of the cartridges can be opened & the bearings re-greased OR the bearings replaced & repacked -- the bearings are LOOSE and held in place by the shell of the cartridge so if you do want to open it, do so with CAUTION!

ARE YOU FORGETTING THE PLASTIC CONE which centers the steerer in the cartridge bearing & ensures the bearing is securely seated?!?

Okay, if you really want to TRY to "glue" your bearing into the headtube (no more recommended than re-facing your headdtube!) you should be aware that you need to EITHER make it NON-permanent AND/OR reversible ...
  • If you want something that is NON-permanent, then you would actually use something PERMANENT like JB WELD ... but, this requires that you are HANDY and that this is not your first attempt at a manual task!
  • Clean the headtube of any-and-all grease. Wipe out with rubbing alcohol or acetone ... Allow to dry.
  • Mix up enough JB WELD (no substitutions on this!) to liberally coat the inside of the existing bearing seat & side of the headtube which is in proximity of the bearing cartridge ...
  • Sprinkle some talc onto the JB WELD'd tube ... the talc is a "releasing agent." Lightly grease the outside of the cartridge bearing & put it in place ...
  • Assemble the frame/fork/headset/spacers/stem/top-cap ... GREASE the underside of the UPPER SHELL & anything which might come in contact with the JB WELD, too! Ensure that nothing binds!
Set aside for about 24 hours.

OPTIONAL. After 24 hours, disassemble the fork from the frame. TAP the bearing out of the headtube. CLEAN & GREASE, again ... reassemble.

By reversible, you would seat the bearing with a "glue" that can be peeled/scraped off -- e.g., tub-and-tile caulk. The tub-and-tile-caulk will harden to some extent, but not be as stiff as an epoxy.

If you "glue" the bearing cartridge in place with tub-and-tile-caulk, you can tap (some extraordinary FORCE might be required due to the adhesion!) the bearings out & scrape away the caulk in the future.

The process would be the same as with the JB WELD except you would not disassemble the components to regrease UNLESS you failed to grease the components liberally enough to preclude adhesion OR binding.

If you need to remove the caulk in the future, then you can probably use a propane torch to "age" the caulk.

GOOD LUCK!
 

tk49

New Member
Dec 30, 2006
14
0
0
alfeng said:
FWIW. Re-facing the headtube is probably the LAST thing you want to do ...

How did this happen?!?
It's a new bike. Nothing happened it was just not done right.
The dealer isn't responding so is the maker.
Sad but true.

Was the stem not secured properly on the headtube?!?
It was never done right and not after the welding otherwise it would have been ok is my conclusion.

Is the headtube ovalized?!?
Not yet :D

Is the current headset one of those CAMPY 1" integrated headsets (circa 2000)?!?
No it's a ritchey set.

Are you sure there is actually a problem with the cartridge & headtube?
Yes, because when i press with my thumbs on each side of the bearing it go's up and down. What else could this mean than a no good facing job.

If it is a Campy 1" integrated headset (and, probably applicable to some others), then the two halves of the cartridges can be opened & the bearings re-greased OR the bearings replaced & repacked -- the bearings are LOOSE and held in place by the shell of the cartridge so if you do want to open it, do so with CAUTION!

ARE YOU FORGETTING THE PLASTIC CONE which centers the steerer in the cartridge bearing & ensures the bearing is securely seated?!?


Okay, if you really want to TRY to "glue" your bearing into the headtube (no more recommended than re-facing your headdtube!) you should be aware that you need to EITHER make it NON-permanent AND/OR reversible ...
I realise allthough there is like many things there's allways a compromise and not just one or the other.
  • If you want something that is NON-permanent, then you would actually use something PERMANENT like JB WELD ... but, this requires that you are HANDY and that this is not your first attempt at a manual task!
  • Clean the headtube of any-and-all grease. Wipe out with rubbing alcohol or acetone ... Allow to dry.
  • Mix up enough JB WELD (no substitutions on this!) to liberally coat the inside of the existing bearing seat & side of the headtube which is in proximity of the bearing cartridge ...
  • Sprinkle some talc onto the JB WELD'd tube ... the talc is a "releasing agent." Lightly grease the outside of the cartridge bearing & put it in place ...
  • Assemble the frame/fork/headset/spacers/stem/top-cap ... GREASE the underside of the UPPER SHELL & anything which might come in contact with the JB WELD, too! Ensure that nothing binds!
Set aside for about 24 hours.

OPTIONAL. After 24 hours, disassemble the fork from the frame. TAP the bearing out of the headtube. CLEAN & GREASE, again ... reassemble.

By reversible, you would seat the bearing with a "glue" that can be peeled/scraped off -- e.g., tub-and-tile caulk. The tub-and-tile-caulk will harden to some extent, but not be as stiff as an epoxy.

If you "glue" the bearing cartridge in place with tub-and-tile-caulk, you can tap (some extraordinary FORCE might be required due to the adhesion!) the bearings out & scrape away the caulk in the future.

The process would be the same as with the JB WELD except you would not disassemble the components to regrease UNLESS you failed to grease the components liberally enough to preclude adhesion OR binding.

If you need to remove the caulk in the future, then you can probably use a propane torch to "age" the caulk.

I did not use jb weld, but something similar i guess.
I did use somekind of stuff that prevents the bearings from ovalizing my headstock wich is the most important thing to prevent if one is suffering problems like this.
Again we used something of a glue and added a very thing layer on the headstock.

After that we assembled the fork and just left a tiny bit of play and let the frame rest on the fork a bit.


What we also dit was put some tacx mountingpaste between the innerforktube and the expander and this did help much better to keep the expander where it belongs.

Now after a coupple of hundred of miles i can say that things have worked out ok.
The play that was discovered was as little as could have been and tiny adjustments have been made in order to prevent not to tighten the bearings too much.

So far so good allthough i admit that this is not the best solution, but than again there are more bikes out of the factory that have the headset bearings of cups glued in as far is i have been told.


GOOD LUCK!
Thanks it's appreciated :D