Heart Aging



Bill wrote:
>
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]>
> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
> > > Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >[email protected] wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >The management of your coumadin anticoagulation
> > > >> >was probably stressful
> for
> > > >> >your physicians.
> > > >> >
> > > >> Do you think so?
> > > >
> > > >A prosthetic metal valve in the mitral position is
> > > >especially vulnerable to the formation of blood clots
> > > >when warfarin is held. And, you have had a number of
> > > >surgical procedures where the warfarin was held.
> > >
> > > Before each surgical procedure I was admitted to
> > > hospital early ( about five days) so that I could be
> > > switched to Heparin.
> > >
> >
> > That probably placed a strain on the UK NHS :)
> >
> > > >
> > > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good valve. Have they
> > > >given you an explanation for why it is leaking more
> > > >than the usual small amount?
> > >
> > > I am sure it is a good valve and it was implanted in a
> > > London heart hospital, one of the best in Europe. I do
> > > not know that it is leaking more than a small amount,
> > > but the consultant I saw last (in Manchester)
> > > commented on it as soon as he listened to my heart. He
> > > wanted an echo to be done that day. Maybe it is minor
> > > but when I asked about that he did not respond. My GP
> > > has received a letter about the results and it
> > > contains a comment about having a TOE done. . I see
> > > the consultant again on 30th June. These long waiting
> > > times are common in our UK NHS.
> > >
> > > Diana
> >
> > Sorry that you have to put up with the long waits.
> >
> >
>
> It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a service becomes
> very inexpensive wait times rise as a method to control
> the load on the fixed resource - number of available Dr.
> appointments. I think you see the same thing in the US
> with veterans hospitals. On the other hand, you don't want
> truly needy people dropping out because they can not pay.
>
> Bill

It is sad when money controls medicine.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
>"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
>> > Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > >[email protected] wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> >The management of your coumadin anticoagulation was
>> > >> >probably stressful
>for
>> > >> >your physicians.
>> > >> >
>> > >> Do you think so?
>> > >
>> > >A prosthetic metal valve in the mitral position is
>> > >especially vulnerable to the formation of blood clots
>> > >when warfarin is held. And, you have had a number of
>> > >surgical procedures where the warfarin was held.
>> >
>> > Before each surgical procedure I was admitted to
>> > hospital early ( about five days) so that I could be
>> > switched to Heparin.
>> >
>>
>> That probably placed a strain on the UK NHS :)
>>
>> > >
>> > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good valve. Have they
>> > >given you an explanation for why it is leaking more
>> > >than the usual small amount?
>> >
>> > I am sure it is a good valve and it was implanted in a
>> > London heart hospital, one of the best in Europe. I do
>> > not know that it is leaking more than a small amount,
>> > but the consultant I saw last (in Manchester) commented
>> > on it as soon as he listened to my heart. He wanted an
>> > echo to be done that day. Maybe it is minor but when I
>> > asked about that he did not respond. My GP has received
>> > a letter about the results and it contains a comment
>> > about having a TOE done. . I see the consultant again
>> > on 30th June. These long waiting times are common in
>> > our UK NHS.
>> >
>> > Diana
>>
>> Sorry that you have to put up with the long waits.
>>
>>
>
>It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a service becomes
>very inexpensive wait times rise as a method to control the
>load on the fixed resource - number of available Dr.
>appointments. I think you see the same thing in the US with
>veterans hospitals. On the other hand, you don't want truly
>needy people dropping out because they can not pay.
>
>Bill

You see it at hospitals along the southern border as well.
These hospitals are being bankrupted by unpaid services to
foriegn nationals. You need to qualify services to those who
cannot pay or it diminished service to everyone.

>
>> Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
>> http://www.heartmdphd.com/
>>
>> ** Who is the humblest person in the universe?
>> http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
>>
>> What is all this about?
>> http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48
>>
>> Is this spam? http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
>>
>
 
On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Bill wrote:
>>
>> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]>
>> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> > [email protected] wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
>> > > Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >[email protected] wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> >The management of your coumadin anticoagulation
>> > > >> >was probably stressful
>> for
>> > > >> >your physicians.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> Do you think so?
>> > > >
>> > > >A prosthetic metal valve in the mitral position is
>> > > >especially vulnerable to the formation of blood
>> > > >clots when warfarin is held. And, you have had a
>> > > >number of surgical procedures where the warfarin was
>> > > >held.
>> > >
>> > > Before each surgical procedure I was admitted to
>> > > hospital early ( about five days) so that I could be
>> > > switched to Heparin.
>> > >
>> >
>> > That probably placed a strain on the UK NHS :)
>> >
>> > > >
>> > > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good valve. Have they
>> > > >given you an explanation for why it is leaking more
>> > > >than the usual small amount?
>> > >
>> > > I am sure it is a good valve and it was implanted in
>> > > a London heart hospital, one of the best in Europe. I
>> > > do not know that it is leaking more than a small
>> > > amount, but the consultant I saw last (in Manchester)
>> > > commented on it as soon as he listened to my heart.
>> > > He wanted an echo to be done that day. Maybe it is
>> > > minor but when I asked about that he did not respond.
>> > > My GP has received a letter about the results and it
>> > > contains a comment about having a TOE done. . I see
>> > > the consultant again on 30th June. These long waiting
>> > > times are common in our UK NHS.
>> > >
>> > > Diana
>> >
>> > Sorry that you have to put up with the long waits.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a service
>> becomes very inexpensive wait times rise as a method to
>> control the load on the fixed resource - number of
>> available Dr. appointments. I think you see the same
>> thing in the US with veterans hospitals. On the other
>> hand, you don't want truly needy people dropping out
>> because they can not pay.
>>
>> Bill
>
>It is sad when money controls medicine.
>

How else would you pay for it? Are you working for free?

>
>Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
>Andrew
 
Oliver Costich wrote:

> On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
> MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Bill wrote:
> >>
> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]>
> >> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
> >> > > Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > >[email protected] wrote:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> >The management of your coumadin anticoagulation
> >> > > >> >was probably stressful
> >> for
> >> > > >> >your physicians.
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> Do you think so?
> >> > > >
> >> > > >A prosthetic metal valve in the mitral position is
> >> > > >especially vulnerable to the formation of blood
> >> > > >clots when warfarin is held. And, you have had a
> >> > > >number of surgical procedures where the warfarin
> >> > > >was held.
> >> > >
> >> > > Before each surgical procedure I was admitted to
> >> > > hospital early ( about five days) so that I could
> >> > > be switched to Heparin.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > That probably placed a strain on the UK NHS :)
> >> >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good valve. Have
> >> > > >they given you an explanation for why it is
> >> > > >leaking more than the usual small amount?
> >> > >
> >> > > I am sure it is a good valve and it was implanted
> >> > > in a London heart hospital, one of the best in
> >> > > Europe. I do not know that it is leaking more than
> >> > > a small amount, but the consultant I saw last (in
> >> > > Manchester) commented on it as soon as he listened
> >> > > to my heart. He wanted an echo to be done that day.
> >> > > Maybe it is minor but when I asked about that he
> >> > > did not respond. My GP has received a letter about
> >> > > the results and it contains a comment about having
> >> > > a TOE done. . I see the consultant again on 30th
> >> > > June. These long waiting times are common in our UK
> >> > > NHS.
> >> > >
> >> > > Diana
> >> >
> >> > Sorry that you have to put up with the long waits.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a service
> >> becomes very inexpensive wait times rise as a method to
> >> control the load on the fixed resource - number of
> >> available Dr. appointments. I think you see the same
> >> thing in the US with veterans hospitals. On the other
> >> hand, you don't want truly needy people dropping out
> >> because they can not pay.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >
> >It is sad when money controls medicine.
> >
>
> How else would you pay for it?

The same way you pay for other professional services.

> Are you working for free?
>

What I do here, I am doing freely with Christ's guidance.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

> Oliver Costich wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
>>MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>It is sad when money controls medicine.
>>>
>>How else would you pay for it?
>
> The same way you pay for other professional services.

With money, I bet.

>>Are you working for free?
>>
> What I do here, I am doing freely with Christ's guidance.

That means, "No, I don't work for free. And that money
controls *my* medicine. And I expect to be paid. Period."

Recall Chung talking about how well he's paid. Recall Chung
talking about how any income from his (non-income producing)
web site is donated to charity. Recall the short-spammed web
page about his "foundation" to be used for charitable
purposes. All vanished rather quickly, no...?

Bob
 
On Sat, 15 May 2004 17:05:04 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sat, 15 May 2004 03:53:52 -0400, Mosaic M_uns
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 14 May 2004 18:05:40 GMT,
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I would love to walk 2 miles a day.
>>
>>Why can't you?
>>http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well,
>>Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
>
>
>Valvular heart disease. Got a new St Jude bi-leaflet MV Nov
>02 but recently was told that it leaks. Aortic and tri-
>cuspid both have leaks. Have paroxysmal A.fib and flutter
>and 2:1 heart block. Now have a dual chamber pacemaker. Was
>unable to complete cardiac rehabilitation. Widespread OA,
>especially spine. Debilitated by three major surgeries in a
>15 month period. Colon cancer surgery, three months later
>stoma reversal, 11 months later MV surgery. I can't walk 2
>miles a day! ... but I am cheerful and optimistic. Diana

My best wishes for your continued recovery. Btw, the St.
Jude folks...special in many respects.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well,
Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
On Thu, 20 May 2004 08:33:46 -0400, Mosaic M_uns <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 15 May 2004 17:05:04 GMT, [email protected]
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 15 May 2004 03:53:52 -0400, Mosaic M_uns
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 14 May 2004 18:05:40 GMT,
>>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I would love to walk 2 miles a day.
>>>
>>>Why can't you?
>>>http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well,
>>>Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
>>
>>
>>Valvular heart disease. Got a new St Jude bi-leaflet MV
>>Nov 02 but recently was told that it leaks. Aortic and
>>tri-cuspid both have leaks. Have paroxysmal A.fib and
>>flutter and 2:1 heart block. Now have a dual chamber
>>pacemaker. Was unable to complete cardiac rehabilitation.
>>Widespread OA, especially spine. Debilitated by three
>>major surgeries in a 15 month period. Colon cancer
>>surgery, three months later stoma reversal, 11 months
>>later MV surgery. I can't walk 2 miles a day! ... but I
>>am cheerful and optimistic. Diana
>
>My best wishes for your continued recovery. Btw, the St.
>Jude folks...special in many respects.
>http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well,
>Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Thank you. Interested to read your comments re St Jude. I
definitely did not get one of their silzone coated
valves. Diana
 
On Thu, 20 May 2004 18:30:25 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>Thank you. Interested to read your comments re St Jude. I
>definitely did not get one of their silzone coated valves

The design, according to friends in the industry, and its
approved execution, appear to be excellent but I am sure
that is cold comfort if you are not having the best of luck
with it. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift
well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
On Sun, 16 May 2004 18:51:46 GMT, "Carmen" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Ginko is an anticoagulant. Surely you had researched it
>thoroughly before taking it? Did you tell your physicians
>you started taking it? Herbal medicines are still drugs.
>Anything you take with an eye towards producing certain
>beneficial physiological and/or psychological results is a
>drug. That means the potential for undesirable side effects
>also exists.
>
>Carmen

Carmen, nice to see you. All's well? Red/white blood
cell counts?

Had a bit if hospital time myself.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well,
Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
Hi,
On 20-May-2004, Mosaic M_uns <[email protected]> wrote:

> Carmen, nice to see you. All's well? Red/white blood
> cell counts?

Yesterday's check-up was decent as far as white counts
went. He'd been given a shot of Neulasta, a growth
factor for neutrophils, after his first round of chemo.
The doctor was pleased at how well it had done. His red
count stunk as far as I was concerned (32%!) but he is
doing alright as far as symptoms go so the doctor is
going to wait to start giving him Aranesp (growth factor
for RBC production) until after Chemo Part II (starts on
Wednesday). Each round is 6 days inpatient, so Sarge is
a bit miffed about wasting so much of his summer stuck
inside. :) He's doing pretty well all things
considered. Losing weight he didn't have to lose though.
Nausea and mouth sores. We're working on finding foods
he can stand that don't hurt to eat. His hair started
leaving two days ago (started with his moustache) and
it's looking distinctly motheaten now. Kind of like one
of those stuffed animals that a child has loved part of
the fuzz off. <G>

> Had a bit if hospital time myself.

Oh no. What happened? Exogenous or endogenous?

Take care, Carmen
 
On Thu, 20 May 2004 16:00:46 GMT, "Carmen" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 20-May-2004, Mosaic M_uns <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Carmen, nice to see you. All's well? Red/white blood cell
>> counts?
>
>Yesterday's check-up was decent as far as white counts
>went. He'd been given a shot of Neulasta, a growth
>factor for neutrophils, after his first round of chemo.
>The doctor was pleased at how well it had done. His red
>count stunk as far as I was concerned (32%!) but he is
>doing alright as far as symptoms go so the doctor is
>going to wait to start giving him Aranesp (growth factor
>for RBC production) until after Chemo Part II (starts on
>Wednesday). Each round is 6 days inpatient, so Sarge is
>a bit miffed about wasting so much of his summer stuck
>inside. :) He's doing pretty well all things
>considered. Losing weight he didn't have to lose though.
>Nausea and mouth sores. We're working on finding foods
>he can stand that don't hurt to eat. His hair started
>leaving two days ago (started with his moustache) and
>it's looking distinctly motheaten now. Kind of like one
>of those stuffed animals that a child has loved part of
>the fuzz off. <G>

Your sense of humor in tough times is on of your best
traits, Carmen. All in all, this sounds yucky but really is
pretty decent considering. Correct?

>> Had a bit if hospital time myself.
>
>Oh no. What happened? Exogenous or endogenous?

Neither.

Anal.

lol

My butt was where it shouldn't have been (so was I for that
matter) and bad eating habits, hereditary...well, by the
time they decided to do their thing (and I got enough
courage and time myself) when they wheeled me down for a
spinal block, the Doc said, Nope, no telling what we are
going to find so let's lay him out." That was thrilling to
hear. You know, us men, we are such great patients.

They didn't have copies of my overseas colonoscopy and other
and assorted wrong end probes and he couldn't get up in
there (I was shall we say "slammed shut), cancer in the
immediate family, (Mother, very young, terminal, lower
intestine)...I remember thinking once if I would rather lose
my butt or a hand. lol

I made a post on asdlc; don't know if I Xposted here or not,
prolly, Xposting is key to my life.

lol

Anyway, I had my first big boy **** without crying so it
looks good.

Lost about 15 pounds in two weeks. Went on the 1Ounce Diet.
I don't think Andrew would have approved.

Glad to hear from you. Good that Sarge is starting to get
his Hoo-Ah back.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well,
Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Oliver Costich wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
>> MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Bill wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote in message
>> >> news:[email protected]...
>> >> > [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
>> >> > > Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >[email protected] wrote:
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> >The management of your coumadin
>> >> > > >> >anticoagulation was probably stressful
>> >> for
>> >> > > >> >your physicians.
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >> Do you think so?
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >A prosthetic metal valve in the mitral position
>> >> > > >is especially vulnerable to the formation of
>> >> > > >blood clots when warfarin is held. And, you have
>> >> > > >had a number of surgical procedures where the
>> >> > > >warfarin was held.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Before each surgical procedure I was admitted to
>> >> > > hospital early ( about five days) so that I could
>> >> > > be switched to Heparin.
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> > That probably placed a strain on the UK NHS :)
>> >> >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good valve. Have
>> >> > > >they given you an explanation for why it is
>> >> > > >leaking more than the usual small amount?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I am sure it is a good valve and it was implanted
>> >> > > in a London heart hospital, one of the best in
>> >> > > Europe. I do not know that it is leaking more than
>> >> > > a small amount, but the consultant I saw last (in
>> >> > > Manchester) commented on it as soon as he listened
>> >> > > to my heart. He wanted an echo to be done that
>> >> > > day. Maybe it is minor but when I asked about that
>> >> > > he did not respond. My GP has received a letter
>> >> > > about the results and it contains a comment about
>> >> > > having a TOE done. . I see the consultant again on
>> >> > > 30th June. These long waiting times are common in
>> >> > > our UK NHS.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Diana
>> >> >
>> >> > Sorry that you have to put up with the long waits.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a service
>> >> becomes very inexpensive wait times rise as a method
>> >> to control the load on the fixed resource - number of
>> >> available Dr. appointments. I think you see the same
>> >> thing in the US with veterans hospitals. On the other
>> >> hand, you don't want truly needy people dropping out
>> >> because they can not pay.
>> >>
>> >> Bill
>> >
>> >It is sad when money controls medicine.
>> >
>>
>> How else would you pay for it?
>
>The same way you pay for other professional services.

Like with money? How is that possible if money doesn't
control medicine?

>
>> Are you working for free?
>>
>
>What I do here, I am doing freely with Christ's guidance.
>
>
>Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
>Andrew
 
On Fri, 21 May 2004 17:05:00 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Oliver Costich wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
>> MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Oliver Costich wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
>> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Bill wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:[email protected]...
>> >> >> > [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400, "Dr. Andrew
>> >> >> > > B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]>
>> >> >> > > wrote:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > >[email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> > > >>
>> >> >> > > >> >The management of your coumadin
>> >> >> > > >> >anticoagulation was probably stressful
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> > > >> >your physicians.
>> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> > > >> Do you think so?
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >A prosthetic metal valve in the mitral
>> >> >> > > >position is especially vulnerable to the
>> >> >> > > >formation of blood clots when warfarin is
>> >> >> > > >held. And, you have had a number of surgical
>> >> >> > > >procedures where the warfarin was held.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Before each surgical procedure I was admitted
>> >> >> > > to hospital early ( about five days) so that I
>> >> >> > > could be switched to Heparin.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > That probably placed a strain on the UK NHS :)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good valve.
>> >> >> > > >Have they given you an explanation for why it
>> >> >> > > >is leaking more than the usual small amount?
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > I am sure it is a good valve and it was
>> >> >> > > implanted in a London heart hospital, one of
>> >> >> > > the best in Europe. I do not know that it is
>> >> >> > > leaking more than a small amount, but the
>> >> >> > > consultant I saw last (in Manchester) commented
>> >> >> > > on it as soon as he listened to my heart. He
>> >> >> > > wanted an echo to be done that day. Maybe it is
>> >> >> > > minor but when I asked about that he did not
>> >> >> > > respond. My GP has received a letter about the
>> >> >> > > results and it contains a comment about having
>> >> >> > > a TOE done. . I see the consultant again on
>> >> >> > > 30th June. These long waiting times are common
>> >> >> > > in our UK NHS.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Diana
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Sorry that you have to put up with the long
>> >> >> > waits.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a service
>> >> >> becomes very inexpensive wait times rise as a
>> >> >> method to control the load on the fixed resource -
>> >> >> number of available Dr. appointments. I think you
>> >> >> see the same thing in the US with veterans
>> >> >> hospitals. On the other hand, you don't want truly
>> >> >> needy people dropping out because they can not pay.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Bill
>> >> >
>> >> >It is sad when money controls medicine.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> How else would you pay for it?
>> >
>> >The same way you pay for other professional services.
>>
>> Like with money?
>
>Yes.
>
>> How is that possible if money doesn't control medicine?
>>
>
>When the recipient of professional service pays for the
>service directly once the service is rendered, money no
>longer controls the process but rather catalyzes/enables
>it.
>

With today's medical costs, no individual can take the risk
of having to pay his own health care costs in full. It's an
idea whose time has passed with the huge increases in cost.
It's getting to the point where evn insurance is
unaffordable. I know mine is at about $1500/month for a
$5,000 deductible policy.

>Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
>Andrew
 
On Sat, 22 May 2004 13:03:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Oliver Costich wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 21 May 2004 17:05:00 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
>> MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Oliver Costich wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
>> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Oliver Costich wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
>> >> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Bill wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:[email protected]...
>> >> >> >> > [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400, "Dr.
>> >> >> >> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>> >> >> >> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > >[email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > >>
>> >> >> >> > > >> >The management of your coumadin
>> >> >> >> > > >> >anticoagulation was probably stressful
>> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> > > >> >your physicians.
>> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> > > >> Do you think so?
>> >> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >A prosthetic metal valve in the mitral
>> >> >> >> > > >position is especially vulnerable to the
>> >> >> >> > > >formation of blood clots when warfarin is
>> >> >> >> > > >held. And, you have had a number of
>> >> >> >> > > >surgical procedures where the warfarin was
>> >> >> >> > > >held.
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > Before each surgical procedure I was
>> >> >> >> > > admitted to hospital early ( about five
>> >> >> >> > > days) so that I could be switched to
>> >> >> >> > > Heparin.
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > That probably placed a strain on the UK NHS
>> >> >> >> > :)
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good valve.
>> >> >> >> > > >Have they given you an explanation for why
>> >> >> >> > > >it is leaking more than the usual small
>> >> >> >> > > >amount?
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > I am sure it is a good valve and it was
>> >> >> >> > > implanted in a London heart hospital, one of
>> >> >> >> > > the best in Europe. I do not know that it is
>> >> >> >> > > leaking more than a small amount, but the
>> >> >> >> > > consultant I saw last (in Manchester)
>> >> >> >> > > commented on it as soon as he listened to my
>> >> >> >> > > heart. He wanted an echo to be done that
>> >> >> >> > > day. Maybe it is minor but when I asked
>> >> >> >> > > about that he did not respond. My GP has
>> >> >> >> > > received a letter about the results and it
>> >> >> >> > > contains a comment about having a TOE done.
>> >> >> >> > > . I see the consultant again on 30th June.
>> >> >> >> > > These long waiting times are common in our
>> >> >> >> > > UK NHS.
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > Diana
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Sorry that you have to put up with the long
>> >> >> >> > waits.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a
>> >> >> >> service becomes very inexpensive wait times rise
>> >> >> >> as a method to control the load on the fixed
>> >> >> >> resource - number of available Dr. appointments.
>> >> >> >> I think you see the same thing in the US with
>> >> >> >> veterans hospitals. On the other hand, you don't
>> >> >> >> want truly needy people dropping out because
>> >> >> >> they can not pay.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Bill
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >It is sad when money controls medicine.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> How else would you pay for it?
>> >> >
>> >> >The same way you pay for other professional services.
>> >>
>> >> Like with money?
>> >
>> >Yes.
>> >
>> >> How is that possible if money doesn't control
>> >> medicine?
>> >>
>> >
>> >When the recipient of professional service pays for the
>> >service directly once the service is rendered, money no
>> >longer controls the process but rather catalyzes/enables
>> >it.
>> >
>>
>> With today's medical costs, no individual can take the
>> risk of having to pay his own health care costs in full.
>
>Paying one's health care costs directly in full
>entails no risk.

Only to the pocketbook if one can even afford the needed
care. Sans insurance, a dobutamine stress test costs over
$3000. The whole idea of insurance is to spread the
financial risk over a larger group. Do you have auto and
home insurance?

>
>Having either a Medical Savings Account (MSA) or a Health
>Savings Account (HSA) make this not only possible but
>practical.

Great if you are young and healthy and don't need to spend
from it. No good otherwise. There is no one-size-fits-all
method here.

>
>> It's an idea whose time has passed with the huge
>> increases in cost.
>
>There are many who are realizing the benefits of MSAs
>and HSAs.
>
>> It's getting to the point where evn insurance is
>> unaffordable. I know mine is at about $1500/month for a
>> $5,000 deductible policy.
>
>It is indeed late once you have developed chronic health
>conditions.
>
>
>Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
>Andrew
 
On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:47:06 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>
>>Well, sometimes. My mother, for example, went into a
>>nursing home and after all her assets were exhausted she
>>went on Medicaid which (+ other monthly income) paid for
>>the nursing home and other medical expenses.
>
>In the UK, if a person has savings over £16,000 they must
>pay in full for nursing home care, typically £350-400 per
>week.. If they own a house it would have to be sold to
>provide funds for the care unless a spouse or other member
>of the family was living in it.
>>
>>But the point I was trying to make originally was that you
>>do need a system to control scarce resources - such as
>>Drs. appointments. In the UK and in the US VA hospitals
>>what has evolved is waiting time. As the waits get longer
>>people drop out, find another way, or maybe even die. In
>>the typical US situation it seems to revolve more around
>>money. People may avoid Drs. and hospitals because of the
>>cost. There is more of a capitalist supply and demand
>>undercurrent also implying people will do without.
>
>People do die in the UK waiting for heart surgery. It is a
>national scandal. The best way to avoid waits in the NHS
>system is to pay or to be vociferous and many older people
>were brought up in a climate of "not questioning the
>doctor". My friends all assumed I was paying for my heart
>surgery because it was being done in London when I live in
>Manchester but it came about only because I wrote to the
>surgeon concerned and he agreed to take me on. A dear
>friend died two weeks ago. He had a serious heart valve
>problem and we had many discussions as I wanted him to ask
>his cardiologist if surgery was a possibility for him. He
>told me he couldn't do that. This man had been diagnosed
>over ten years ago and ...just kept taking the medicine.
>His cardiologist was the same one who told me when he gave
>me my diagnosis that "its not desperate, you can go home".
>The surgeon told me I would have had 3-5 years left. Sorry
>for the rant but money certainly makes a difference here. I
>could have had surgery immediately after diagnosis but the
>cost would have been £15 - 20,000.
>
>>
>>I sure don't know what is best. (But there does need to be
>>a safety valve in both cases for serious situations.)
>>However, I do think there is way way too much bureaucracy
>>and paperwork in the system.
>
>Same here.
>
>Another problem in the UK is "medical tourism". People
>arrive from all over the place and just present themselves
>at hospital. Doctors here do not like to say no to
>seriously ill people. The government is proposing to start
>yet another new system whereby the patient has to prove
>they are resident here. GPs are saying that they do not
>want to police the system for the government.

It happens in the US as well. Hospitals along the southern
are being bankrupted by unpaid services delivered to
illegal aliens.
>
>The NHS is said to be the envy of the world but there are
>many problems, like that mentioned above, that causes many
>of the indigenous population to have to wait longer for
>treatment.
>
>Diana
 
Oliver Costich wrote:

> On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
> MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Oliver Costich wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Bill wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> >> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400, "Dr. Andrew
> >> >> > > B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > >[email protected] wrote:
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> >The management of your coumadin
> >> >> > > >> >anticoagulation was probably stressful
> >> >> for
> >> >> > > >> >your physicians.
> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> > > >> Do you think so?
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >A prosthetic metal valve in the mitral position
> >> >> > > >is especially vulnerable to the formation of
> >> >> > > >blood clots when warfarin is held. And, you
> >> >> > > >have had a number of surgical procedures where
> >> >> > > >the warfarin was held.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Before each surgical procedure I was admitted to
> >> >> > > hospital early ( about five days) so that I
> >> >> > > could be switched to Heparin.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That probably placed a strain on the UK NHS :)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good valve. Have
> >> >> > > >they given you an explanation for why it is
> >> >> > > >leaking more than the usual small amount?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I am sure it is a good valve and it was
> >> >> > > implanted in a London heart hospital, one of the
> >> >> > > best in Europe. I do not know that it is leaking
> >> >> > > more than a small amount, but the consultant I
> >> >> > > saw last (in Manchester) commented on it as soon
> >> >> > > as he listened to my heart. He wanted an echo to
> >> >> > > be done that day. Maybe it is minor but when I
> >> >> > > asked about that he did not respond. My GP has
> >> >> > > received a letter about the results and it
> >> >> > > contains a comment about having a TOE done. . I
> >> >> > > see the consultant again on 30th June. These
> >> >> > > long waiting times are common in our UK NHS.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Diana
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sorry that you have to put up with the long waits.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a service
> >> >> becomes very inexpensive wait times rise as a method
> >> >> to control the load on the fixed resource - number
> >> >> of available Dr. appointments. I think you see the
> >> >> same thing in the US with veterans hospitals. On the
> >> >> other hand, you don't want truly needy people
> >> >> dropping out because they can not pay.
> >> >>
> >> >> Bill
> >> >
> >> >It is sad when money controls medicine.
> >> >
> >>
> >> How else would you pay for it?
> >
> >The same way you pay for other professional services.
>
> Like with money?

Yes.

> How is that possible if money doesn't control medicine?
>

When the recipient of professional service pays for the
service directly once the service is rendered, money no
longer controls the process but rather catalyzes/enables
it.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
Mosaic M_uns wrote:

> WAAAAAAAY TO LOMG TO READ FROM SOMEONE WHO IS SO SELF
> DELUDED TO THINK PEOPLE WOULD WAST E THEIR TIME
> ACODINGLU=Y.

"...WAST E THEIR TIME ACODINGLU=Y." Brilliant. Precisely
what everyone expects from the 144-pound troll who *says*
he's something but has yet to prove any of it.

Got that caps lock key welded down, doncha, Sparky? Looks
like some girly screaming fit. <LOL> Probably didn't want
anyone to see the little hearts he dots his "i" with.

But at least you preserved the important part of the note.

>>How silly.

It was talking about Chung's profoundly out-of-touch
solution for the public to pay all medical costs directly
and that, he says, catalyzes/enables something or other. He
doesn't seem too clear on what he meant, either.

Swell knowing you're back from your latest secret mission.
Oh wait, it was an operation on your ass. Smart of you to
put a sign on your face so the operating team would be able
to pick out the correct end.

Sorry about your attention span...

Bob

> =========================================================================

>
> On Fri, 21 May 2004 18:40:12 -0400, "Bob (this one)"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>How silly.
 
Oliver Costich wrote:

> On Fri, 21 May 2004 17:05:00 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
> MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Oliver Costich wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Oliver Costich wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
> >> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Bill wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> >> >> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400, "Dr.
> >> >> >> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> >> >> >> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > >[email protected] wrote:
> >> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> >> > > >> >The management of your coumadin
> >> >> >> > > >> >anticoagulation was probably stressful
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> > > >> >your physicians.
> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> > > >> Do you think so?
> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> > > >A prosthetic metal valve in the mitral
> >> >> >> > > >position is especially vulnerable to the
> >> >> >> > > >formation of blood clots when warfarin is
> >> >> >> > > >held. And, you have had a number of surgical
> >> >> >> > > >procedures where the warfarin was held.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Before each surgical procedure I was admitted
> >> >> >> > > to hospital early ( about five days) so that
> >> >> >> > > I could be switched to Heparin.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > That probably placed a strain on the UK NHS :)
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> > > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good valve.
> >> >> >> > > >Have they given you an explanation for why
> >> >> >> > > >it is leaking more than the usual small
> >> >> >> > > >amount?
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > I am sure it is a good valve and it was
> >> >> >> > > implanted in a London heart hospital, one of
> >> >> >> > > the best in Europe. I do not know that it is
> >> >> >> > > leaking more than a small amount, but the
> >> >> >> > > consultant I saw last (in Manchester)
> >> >> >> > > commented on it as soon as he listened to my
> >> >> >> > > heart. He wanted an echo to be done that day.
> >> >> >> > > Maybe it is minor but when I asked about that
> >> >> >> > > he did not respond. My GP has received a
> >> >> >> > > letter about the results and it contains a
> >> >> >> > > comment about having a TOE done. . I see the
> >> >> >> > > consultant again on 30th June. These long
> >> >> >> > > waiting times are common in our UK NHS.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Diana
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Sorry that you have to put up with the long
> >> >> >> > waits.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a service
> >> >> >> becomes very inexpensive wait times rise as a
> >> >> >> method to control the load on the fixed resource
> >> >> >> - number of available Dr. appointments. I think
> >> >> >> you see the same thing in the US with veterans
> >> >> >> hospitals. On the other hand, you don't want
> >> >> >> truly needy people dropping out because they can
> >> >> >> not pay.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Bill
> >> >> >
> >> >> >It is sad when money controls medicine.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> How else would you pay for it?
> >> >
> >> >The same way you pay for other professional services.
> >>
> >> Like with money?
> >
> >Yes.
> >
> >> How is that possible if money doesn't control medicine?
> >>
> >
> >When the recipient of professional service pays for the
> >service directly once the service is rendered, money no
> >longer controls the process but rather catalyzes/enables
> >it.
> >
>
> With today's medical costs, no individual can take the
> risk of having to pay his own health care costs in full.

Paying one's health care costs directly in full
entails no risk.

Having either a Medical Savings Account (MSA) or a Health
Savings Account (HSA) make this not only possible but
practical.

> It's an idea whose time has passed with the huge increases
> in cost.

There are many who are realizing the benefits of MSAs and
HSAs.

> It's getting to the point where evn insurance is
> unaffordable. I know mine is at about $1500/month for a
> $5,000 deductible policy.

It is indeed late once you have developed chronic health
conditions.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

> Oliver Costich wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
>>MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Oliver Costich wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
>>>>Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Bill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a service
>>>>>>becomes very inexpensive wait times rise as a method
>>>>>>to control the load on the fixed resource - number of
>>>>>>available Dr. appointments. I think you see the same
>>>>>>thing in the US with veterans hospitals. On the other
>>>>>>hand, you don't want truly needy people dropping out
>>>>>>because they can not pay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bill
>>>>>
>>>>>It is sad when money controls medicine.
>>>>>
>>>>How else would you pay for it?
>>>
>>>The same way you pay for other professional services.
>>
>>Like with money?
>
> Yes.
>
>>How is that possible if money doesn't control medicine?
>>
> When the recipient of professional service pays for the
> service directly once the service is rendered, money no
> longer controls the process but rather catalyzes/enables
> it.

How silly. Nonsense words - catalyzes/enables. Paying
directly after the service is rendered catalyzes the
service. A catalyst causes a change in chemical action
without entering the reaction. Money will have no part in
the service being offered? Um, bizbabble. Enables? Permits
to happen? Helps to happen? Money facilitates? SOunds like a
controlling element. More biz babble.

As opposed to paying before the service is rendered? See how
much money you have and determine the level of care you're
going to get? Who has ever done that?

This demonstrates a dismissively aristocratic vision - Marie
Antoinette's famous dictum. There's no bread? Let them eat
cake. Nice, tidy, if illogical, impractical and utterly
lacking in compassion, solution.

What do poor people do about paying directly? Hell, what
does a middle class person do who needs serious surgery?
Bypass surgery a few months ago in New Jersey, a fellow told
me, cost his insurance company $58,000. How many people
could afford to "directly" pay that much? It doesn't matter
if the person has to pay before or after; if he can't pay,
he won't get it.

Oh, we can just work out the payments... Maybe get a second
job; the bypass will hold up just fine. Don't worry about
the stress. Or the ongoing meds.

Or will Chung talk about private charities to pay for it?
How silly that is. Charities can't keep up with what they're
trying to do now, what will happen when thousands or
millions of people will make requests for help? What does
that single mother do? The guy with a couple kids in
college? The returning vet who just spent a year or two
overseas not making much money?

If you can't afford to pay it, that means the medicine is
effectively unavailable. It means very directly that money
controls medicine. No money=no medicine.

Or will there still be insurance companies to do the paying?
If there is, what's the difference between that ill-defined
payment approach that Chung espouses and what's done now?
Insurance companies *now* pay for the services afterward.
Nothing new.

But a careful read of what Chung proposes says it all: "the
recipient of professional service pays for the service
directly." You want medical attention, you pay for it. And
somehow, that means money doesn't control medicine...

Or do you break the doctor the news after the service is
rendered that you can't pay for it? Then what, he takes
your house?

Will people in the medbiz lower their prices for the new
system? Rhetorical question.

Among the top causes of personal bankruptcy in the United
States is overwhelming medical bills.
<http://tinyurl.com/3cjzf> Has been for a while.
Particularly in recessions like we're experiencing now.

Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom Back