heart attacks & cycling...

* * Chas said:

z<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > A Muzi wrote:
> >> Again you mistake the incident for the trend. I know/knew several
> >> Bataan survivors and what about Sir Edmund Hillary? They are more

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >> norm.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Lou Holtman wrote:
> > You know he died yesterday at an age of 88?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> That's why I mentioned him.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Our white hairs signal to the tribe that we should be left by the

trail

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> when they move on. Anything after 40 is gravy.
> --
> Andrew Muzi

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've always viewed that the human body evolved to live 39 years. Half

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

our forbearers became sabertooth tiger chow long before they reached

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

age.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've never understood the drive to live forever. More people should

visit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

nursing homes and think about it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Chas.

Quoted message said:

You got the wrong picture. People live in nursing homes because of the
effects of aging. Aging kills people slowly starting as early as 13
years old. There is nothing that makes aging significantly different
from other diseases.

Quoted message said:

You would think a cure for such horrible slow death would be something
people would research. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Quoted message said:

People are happy to die slowly and they want everyone else to die with
them. They want everyone to die slowly and horribly.

Quoted message said:

I know it sounds rather weird but it's the truth.

Quoted message said:

Modern day medicine descends from dentist butchers. They cant even be
bothered to make basic suggestions about nutrition. There is no
medicine to sell to people who are not ill. Your body can manage all
types of cell aging, all except the really really really slow kind.
This is because we just didn't get that old in the old days! It all
boils down to us not doing the billion Euro research we should be
doing.

Quoted message said:

Cancer research is not anti aging research.

Quoted message said:

Aids research is not anti aging research.

Quoted message said:

Having vitamin C in your diet would probably make 20% of the
difference.

Quoted message said:

That wouldn't cure death from old age but it would remove our
amplification of the undesired phenomenon.

Quoted message said:

I hear about an experiment in a prison. They inmates all had multiple
life sentences. One group would live the way they always did, the
other group got lots of vitamins. (closer to to much as to little)

Quoted message said:

After 3 months the inmates in group 2 where sitting in the hallway
playing chess, laughing, singing and making music. In group 1 they
would still kill a person per day on average.

Quoted message said:

We cant say they died from lack of nutrition but we sure as hell cant
say it wasn't related.

Quoted message said:

""De Grey says that not all of the conditions that cause our bodies to
age can be avoided or prevented...yet. "But I do claim that we have a
fighting chance of developing ways to prevent them within the next 25
years or so.""

Quoted message said:

If we develop tech to have 10 years worth of extra life every 5 years
then we will never die.

Quoted message said:

In theory you can be as vital as a 20 year old when you are two
hundred years old. Suggestions of nursing homes would make you laugh
for decade after decade.

Quoted message said:

And just like the way we got this old at about 500 years of age other
degradation shows up. This is just as curable as today's medicine
compared to 500 years ago.

Quoted message said:

You would have up to 2508 to find a solution.

Quoted message said:

It would be peanuts by then.

Quoted message said:

I suggest we use our war budgets for this.

Quoted message said:

Why buy death if we can but life?

Quoted message said:

Why a nursing home if you can have your own planet?

Quoted message said:

____
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/factuurexpress

Many of the ideas about life extension fall into the domain of 3 groups of
people looking for financial gain:

1. Food supplement hawkers.
2. Authors writing books on life extension.
3. Quacks who are also usually in group 1 and/or 2.

yes, but that is only a symptom of not doing the research.

Con-men utilize the lack of expertise in the field.

They need that to be able to con peoples.

They show up where there is money and interest but no expertise.

Quoted message said:

Consumers of these products need to refer to 2 Latin phrases:

1. Cui bono (who benefits)
2. Caveat emptor (let the buyer beware)

Life extension really comes down to a lot of quality of life issues. It's
possible now and in the near future to enjoy better physical health for
many years longer but issues related mental deterioration to may never be
solved.

My dad lived independently to age 95. He was sharp as a tack until the day
he died. He outlived all of his friends and ended up associating with
their 70 something sons. He used to say "the longer you live the more
people you know who died".

Last fall we had to put my brother-in law into an assisted living
facility because he can no longer take care of himself. He's 84, in great
health and better physical shape than most people in their 60s. His short
term memory is shot. He suffering from the old catch-all term "senile
dementia" - they don't know what's wrong with him. CRS disease - can't
remember [censored]....

There are a whole bunch of factors that affect life expectancy; genetics,
environment, lifestyle and just plain luck all play a part. Getting hit by
a train or struck by lightening messes up the actuary tables.

So buy my book, send me lots of money and I'll send you some expensive
vitamins and sugar pills plus instructions on how to live your life.

"Is that a real pancho or a Sears pancho"? ;-)

I mean... war on terror? What about the war on death?

What would you prefer to spend your Euros on?

What use is space travel if the sum of your lifespan and the weakness
of the flesh prevent you from moving to the next group of dots.

I'm sure we are also pretty close to putting humans on chips.

It seems such waste of good data.

Life would be like this.

ha-ha

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Michael Press wrote:
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> Michael Press wrote:
>>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>>> In article
>>>>> <[email hidden]>,
>>>>> "(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Per * * Chas:
>>>>>>> On the other side of the coin some people like trial lawyers, surgeons and
>>>>>>> others who live a stress junkie life style supposedly don't seem to be
>>>>>>> negatively affected by stress.
>>>>>> I always heard that the amount of control people had over their
>>>>>> day-to-day lives was important.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Stress" without control is one thing, "stress" where the person
>>>>>> has a lot of control - like a senior executive (as in "I don't
>>>>>> get ulcers... I *give* ulcers..."😉 - is a another.
>>>>> Yes, good point. No reason to make trouble for others
>>>>> solely to amuse oneself, though.
>>>>>
>>>>> And everyone, regardless of station, has, or had, the
>>>>> capacity to take control of the central aspects of their being.
>>>>>
>>>> Prisoners at Guantanamo Bay included?
>>> What are you talking about?
>>>
>> That reply is for when people post without quoting previous text for
>> content, no?
> What is the relevance of your reply to the context?
>
Do the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay have the capacity to take control of
the central aspects of their being?

We all find our selves in situations.
We contribute to our situations.

Yes, getting turned in for bounty money, by those who have no morality
but greed.

Quoted message said:

You often complain about your workplace situation.
I get the idea that it is none of your doing.
In that case we disagree fundamentally.

I get the idea the Michael Press has no clue to what he is talking about
in this case.

I know more about you than I know about anyone at Guantanamo Bay.

--
Michael Press

aka Gaby de Wilde said:

...
I'm sure we are also pretty close to putting humans on chips....

Deep fried "long-pig"? 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>>>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> <[email hidden]>,
>>>>>> "(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Per * * Chas:
>>>>>>>> On the other side of the coin some people like trial lawyers, surgeons and
>>>>>>>> others who live a stress junkie life style supposedly don't seem to be
>>>>>>>> negatively affected by stress.
>>>>>>> I always heard that the amount of control people had over their
>>>>>>> day-to-day lives was important.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Stress" without control is one thing, "stress" where the person
>>>>>>> has a lot of control - like a senior executive (as in "I don't
>>>>>>> get ulcers... I *give* ulcers..."😉 - is a another.
>>>>>> Yes, good point. No reason to make trouble for others
>>>>>> solely to amuse oneself, though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And everyone, regardless of station, has, or had, the
>>>>>> capacity to take control of the central aspects of their being.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Prisoners at Guantanamo Bay included?
>>>> What are you talking about?
>>>>
>>> That reply is for when people post without quoting previous text for
>>> content, no?
>> What is the relevance of your reply to the context?
>>
> Do the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay have the capacity to take control of
> the central aspects of their being?
We all find our selves in situations.
We contribute to our situations.

Yes, getting turned in for bounty money, by those who have no morality
but greed.

Quoted message said:

You often complain about your workplace situation.
I get the idea that it is none of your doing.
In that case we disagree fundamentally.

I get the idea the Michael Press has no clue to what he is talking about
in this case.

I know more about you than I know about anyone at Guantanamo Bay.

Yes, the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay do not have Usenet posting
privileges, even the innocent ones.

There are reports out there on how the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are
treated, if one looks beyond the US mainstream media (M$M). One can make
a strong argument that these prisoners do NOT have the ability to to
take control of the central aspects of their being.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

aka Gaby de Wilde said:

...
I'm sure we are also pretty close to putting humans on chips....

Deep fried "long-pig"? 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

Hey bludda, come on over to our place for dinner... :-)

Chas. "I like mine with Bar-B-Q sauce...."

Per Michael Press:

Quoted message said:

I know more about you than I know about anyone at Guantanamo Bay.

"Inside The Wire: A Military Intelligence Soldier's Eyewitness
Account Of Life At Guantanamo". Erik Saar and Viveca Novak.
Penguin Press, New York 2005

I found it an interesting read. Guy doesn't seem to have an
agenda one way or the other - besides making a buck on his
experience.
--
PeteCresswell

* * Chas said:

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

aka Gaby de Wilde said:

...
I'm sure we are also pretty close to putting humans on chips....

Deep fried "long-pig"? 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

Hey bludda, come on over to our place for dinner... :-)

Chas. "I like mine with Bar-B-Q sauce...."

Here in Cheeseland, the Friday Night FIB Fry is a long standing tradition.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I hear about an experiment in a prison. They inmates all had multiple
life sentences. One group would live the way they always did, the
other group got lots of vitamins. (closer to to much as to little)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After 3 months the inmates in group 2 where sitting in the hallway
playing chess, laughing, singing and making music. In group 1 they
would still kill a person per day on average.

....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Many of the ideas about life extension fall into the domain of 3 groups of
people looking for financial gain:

Quoted message said:

1. Food supplement hawkers.
2. Authors writing books on life extension.
3. Quacks who are also usually in group 1 and/or 2.

yes, but that is only a symptom of not doing the research.

Con-men utilize the lack of expertise in the field.

But in your previous post you claimed that there was research - i.e.
the prisoner control group study above (have any reference?) If
taking some extra vitamins could be shown to have such dramatic
effects then why aren't the vitamin manufacturers citing such research
in their ads?

And what prison is this that averages one killing per day? The
homicide rate in US state prisons in 2002 was 4 per 100,000 inmates.
Even including suicides only brings it up to about 50 per 100,000
(http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/newsroom/2005/shspljpr.htm). Using that
figure for both suicides and killings would require an inmate
population of 730,000 to average one death per day.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Michael Press wrote:
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> Michael Press wrote:
>>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>>>>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> <[email hidden]>,
>>>>>>> "(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Per * * Chas:
>>>>>>>>> On the other side of the coin some people like trial lawyers,
>>>>>>>>> surgeons and
>>>>>>>>> others who live a stress junkie life style supposedly don't seem
>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>> negatively affected by stress.
>>>>>>>> I always heard that the amount of control people had over their
>>>>>>>> day-to-day lives was important.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Stress" without control is one thing, "stress" where the person
>>>>>>>> has a lot of control - like a senior executive (as in "I don't
>>>>>>>> get ulcers... I *give* ulcers..."😉 - is a another.
>>>>>>> Yes, good point. No reason to make trouble for others
>>>>>>> solely to amuse oneself, though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And everyone, regardless of station, has, or had, the
>>>>>>> capacity to take control of the central aspects of their being.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Prisoners at Guantanamo Bay included?
>>>>> What are you talking about?
>>>>>
>>>> That reply is for when people post without quoting previous text for
>>>> content, no?
>>> What is the relevance of your reply to the context?
>>>
>> Do the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay have the capacity to take control of
>> the central aspects of their being?
> We all find our selves in situations.
> We contribute to our situations.
>
Yes, getting turned in for bounty money, by those who have no morality
but greed.
>
> You often complain about your workplace situation.
> I get the idea that it is none of your doing.
> In that case we disagree fundamentally.
>
I get the idea the Michael Press has no clue to what he is talking about
in this case.

I know more about you than I know about anyone at Guantanamo Bay.

Yes, the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay do not have Usenet posting
privileges, even the innocent ones.

There are reports out there on how the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are
treated, if one looks beyond the US mainstream media (M$M). One can make
a strong argument that these prisoners do NOT have the ability to to
take control of the central aspects of their being.

Have you guessed by now that my point is people
contribute to the situations they get into?

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>>>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>>>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>>>>>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>> <[email hidden]>,
>>>>>>>> "(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Per * * Chas:
>>>>>>>>>> On the other side of the coin some people like trial lawyers,
>>>>>>>>>> surgeons and
>>>>>>>>>> others who live a stress junkie life style supposedly don't seem
>>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>>> negatively affected by stress.
>>>>>>>>> I always heard that the amount of control people had over their
>>>>>>>>> day-to-day lives was important.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Stress" without control is one thing, "stress" where the person
>>>>>>>>> has a lot of control - like a senior executive (as in "I don't
>>>>>>>>> get ulcers... I *give* ulcers..."😉 - is a another.
>>>>>>>> Yes, good point. No reason to make trouble for others
>>>>>>>> solely to amuse oneself, though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And everyone, regardless of station, has, or had, the
>>>>>>>> capacity to take control of the central aspects of their being.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Prisoners at Guantanamo Bay included?
>>>>>> What are you talking about?
>>>>>>
>>>>> That reply is for when people post without quoting previous text for
>>>>> content, no?
>>>> What is the relevance of your reply to the context?
>>>>
>>> Do the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay have the capacity to take control of
>>> the central aspects of their being?
>> We all find our selves in situations.
>> We contribute to our situations.
> >
> Yes, getting turned in for bounty money, by those who have no morality
> but greed.
> >
>> You often complain about your workplace situation.
>> I get the idea that it is none of your doing.
>> In that case we disagree fundamentally.
>>
> I get the idea the Michael Press has no clue to what he is talking about
> in this case.
I know more about you than I know about anyone at Guantanamo Bay.

Yes, the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay do not have Usenet posting
privileges, even the innocent ones.

There are reports out there on how the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are
treated, if one looks beyond the US mainstream media (M$M). One can make
a strong argument that these prisoners do NOT have the ability to to
take control of the central aspects of their being.

Have you guessed by now that my point is people
contribute to the situations they get into?

Do not live in an area where innocent people are turned in for CIA
bounty money?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Michael Press wrote:
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> Michael Press wrote:
>>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>>>>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>>>>>>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>> <[email hidden]>,
>>>>>>>>> "(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Per * * Chas:
>>>>>>>>>>> On the other side of the coin some people like trial lawyers,
>>>>>>>>>>> surgeons and
>>>>>>>>>>> others who live a stress junkie life style supposedly don't seem
>>>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>>>> negatively affected by stress.
>>>>>>>>>> I always heard that the amount of control people had over their
>>>>>>>>>> day-to-day lives was important.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Stress" without control is one thing, "stress" where the person
>>>>>>>>>> has a lot of control - like a senior executive (as in "I don't
>>>>>>>>>> get ulcers... I *give* ulcers..."😉 - is a another.
>>>>>>>>> Yes, good point. No reason to make trouble for others
>>>>>>>>> solely to amuse oneself, though.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And everyone, regardless of station, has, or had, the
>>>>>>>>> capacity to take control of the central aspects of their being.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Prisoners at Guantanamo Bay included?
>>>>>>> What are you talking about?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> That reply is for when people post without quoting previous text for
>>>>>> content, no?
>>>>> What is the relevance of your reply to the context?
>>>>>
>>>> Do the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay have the capacity to take control of
>>>> the central aspects of their being?
>>> We all find our selves in situations.
>>> We contribute to our situations.
>> >
>> Yes, getting turned in for bounty money, by those who have no morality
>> but greed.
>> >
>>> You often complain about your workplace situation.
>>> I get the idea that it is none of your doing.
>>> In that case we disagree fundamentally.
>>>
>> I get the idea the Michael Press has no clue to what he is talking about
>> in this case.
> I know more about you than I know about anyone at Guantanamo Bay.
>
Yes, the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay do not have Usenet posting
privileges, even the innocent ones.

There are reports out there on how the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are
treated, if one looks beyond the US mainstream media (M$M). One can make
a strong argument that these prisoners do NOT have the ability to to
take control of the central aspects of their being.

Have you guessed by now that my point is people
contribute to the situations they get into?

Do not live in an area where innocent people are turned in for CIA
bounty money?

How do you know they are innocent? How do you know anything about it?
Everyone contributes to the situation he is in.

--
Michael Press

On Jan 11, 6:41 am, Crescentius Vespasianus <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

After the heart attack death of Mike
Janellehttp://mikejanelle.com/at age
40 over Thanksgiving, I think it's time
to revisit is cycling dangerous to your
health.  We have seen many cases where
pro-cyclists often die of heart attacks
in the 50's and rarely make it past
their 60's, I think someone, somewhere
should really study what cycling does to
the heart.  Is it the strain on the
heart, that eventually weakens it, why
does cycling usually lead to a fatal
heart attack?  We owe to the fallen, to
find the real answer.

Cres,

A proper warm up and cool down and doctor visits can go a long way in
avoiding heart problems.

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2007/09/tour-de-france-cyclists-have-bigger_04.html

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2007/11/enlarged-heart-cardiac-arrest-improper.html

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>>>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>>>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>>>>>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <[email hidden]>,
>>>>>>>> Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>>> <[email hidden]>,
>>>>>>>>>> "(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Per * * Chas:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other side of the coin some people like trial lawyers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> surgeons and
>>>>>>>>>>>> others who live a stress junkie life style supposedly don't seem
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> negatively affected by stress.
>>>>>>>>>>> I always heard that the amount of control people had over their
>>>>>>>>>>> day-to-day lives was important.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Stress" without control is one thing, "stress" where the person
>>>>>>>>>>> has a lot of control - like a senior executive (as in "I don't
>>>>>>>>>>> get ulcers... I *give* ulcers..."😉 - is a another.
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, good point. No reason to make trouble for others
>>>>>>>>>> solely to amuse oneself, though.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And everyone, regardless of station, has, or had, the
>>>>>>>>>> capacity to take control of the central aspects of their being.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Prisoners at Guantanamo Bay included?
>>>>>>>> What are you talking about?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That reply is for when people post without quoting previous text for
>>>>>>> content, no?
>>>>>> What is the relevance of your reply to the context?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Do the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay have the capacity to take control of
>>>>> the central aspects of their being?
>>>> We all find our selves in situations.
>>>> We contribute to our situations.
>>> >
>>> Yes, getting turned in for bounty money, by those who have no morality
>>> but greed.
>>> >
>>>> You often complain about your workplace situation.
>>>> I get the idea that it is none of your doing.
>>>> In that case we disagree fundamentally.
>>>>
>>> I get the idea the Michael Press has no clue to what he is talking about
>>> in this case.
>> I know more about you than I know about anyone at Guantanamo Bay.
>>
> Yes, the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay do not have Usenet posting
> privileges, even the innocent ones.
>
> There are reports out there on how the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are
> treated, if one looks beyond the US mainstream media (M$M). One can make
> a strong argument that these prisoners do NOT have the ability to to
> take control of the central aspects of their being.
Have you guessed by now that my point is people
contribute to the situations they get into?

Do not live in an area where innocent people are turned in for CIA
bounty money?

How do you know they are innocent? How do you know anything about it?
Everyone contributes to the situation he is in.

Well, how many have been convicted in a fair court trial?

Several British citizens that were returned from Guantanamo to Britain
were released shortly thereafter, as they were deemed innocent by
British "Intelligence".

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How do you know they are innocent? How do you know anything about it?
Everyone contributes to the situation he is in.

Well, how many have been convicted in a fair court trial?

Several British citizens that were returned from Guantanamo to Britain
were released shortly thereafter, as they were deemed innocent by
British "Intelligence".

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

Under the US system of law everyone is "presumed" innocent until proven
guilty.

Chas.

* * Chas said:

Under the US system of law everyone is "presumed" innocent until proven
guilty.

Chas.

Well, everyone except those in Gitmo central. Oh, and those spied on
without warrant or oversight under the Patriot Act. Or those illegally
watched by the NSA. And maybe pretty much anyone who opposes Bush.

For a historical viewpoint, I'll close with a quote from the
illustrious ex Attorney General Ed Messe "they wouldn't be suspects if
they hadn't done something wrong".

bicycle_disciple said:

Cres,

A proper warm up and cool down and doctor visits can go a long way in
avoiding heart problems.

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2007/09/tour-de-france-cyclists-have-bigger_04.html

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2007/11/enlarged-heart-cardiac-arrest-improper.html

Crazyboy:

Do you have any more references to articles that a longer on
application and shorter on philosophy? I'm curious about this as i
applies to us heathens, as opposed to professionals.

* * Chas said:

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How do you know they are innocent? How do you know anything about it?
Everyone contributes to the situation he is in.

Well, how many have been convicted in a fair court trial?

Several British citizens that were returned from Guantanamo to Britain
were released shortly thereafter, as they were deemed innocent by
British "Intelligence".

Under the US system of law everyone is "presumed" innocent until proven
guilty.

No, by the Military Commissions Act, they are presumed guilty on the say
so of George [censored] Bush - he can declare anyone, US citizen or not, a
terrorist and detain them indefinitely without the right of habeas corpus.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Tom Sherman said:

Do not live in an area where innocent people are turned in for CIA
bounty money?

Haven't I made this clear before by quoting from that stalwart of
Ronald Reagan's justice team, Ed Meese?: They wouldn't be suspects if
they hadn't done something wrong".

Tom Sherman said:

There are reports out there on how the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are
treated, if one looks beyond the US mainstream media (M$M). One can make
a strong argument that these prisoners do NOT have the ability to to
take control of the central aspects of their being.

Perhaps their physical environment is beyond their control. Depending
on what qualifies as torture, even their mental environment may now be
considered beyond their control.

But, Gitmo prisoners excepted, most everyone has control over their
mental stress at all times - it's self imposed, like every other
emotion we ever feel.

peter said:

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

> I hear about an experiment in a prison. They inmates all had multiple
> life sentences. One group would live the way they always did, the
> other group got lots of vitamins. (closer to to much as to little)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> After 3 months the inmates in group 2 where sitting in the hallway
> playing chess, laughing, singing and making music. In group 1 they
> would still kill a person per day on average.

...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Many of the ideas about life extension fall into the domain of 3 groups of
people looking for financial gain:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1. Food supplement hawkers.
2. Authors writing books on life extension.
3. Quacks who are also usually in group 1 and/or 2.

Quoted message said:

yes, but that is only a symptom of not doing the research.

Quoted message said:

Con-men utilize the lack of expertise in the field.

But in your previous post you claimed that there was research - i.e.
the prisoner control group study above (have any reference?)

Yes, there is research but it's not public creating the perfect soil
for con artists.

The prison story was from memory, I coudn't find a link and I have a
rather bad memory.

Quoted message said:

If
taking some extra vitamins could be shown to have such dramatic
effects then why aren't the vitamin manufacturers citing such research
in their ads?

You mean next to the holy watter? I'm sure they do that already. With
multivitamin tablets you don't have a clue about dosage. They just mix
the ingredients in a big tank and keep dosage low so that it can be
mixed enough not to kill anyone.

You don't have a problem believing vitamin C is good for you do you?
It should be easy for you to figure out:

1 - what happens if you have no vitamin C in your diet.

2 - what amount makes for an over dosage of vitamin C

3 - What happens if you have to much vitamin C in your diet.

From those figures you should be able to get a picture of the ideal
quantity. Anything above or below ideal is just "not ideal!". It means
there is always room for improvement in a diet.

Ask your doctor:

1 - should I take vitamin C (they say: no a normal meal has everything
you need)

2 - what should I eat that holds vitamin C? (something like: oranges
kiwi etc)

3 - how much vitamin C is in an orange? (not much)

4 - how much oranges do I have to eat per day to get a good daily
dosage?

5 - how much oranges can a normal stomach stomach?

Then go back to question 1

Studies have shown the medical benefits from having loads of C in your
body. But even if we take the lowest possible figure medical science
has come up with (and thats really really low) then you still have to
eat fruit all week where not just any fruit will do. With a little
research you can figure out that the old cultural dishes did have
plenty of nutrition. You eat linzen every day? Well you should ^^

Some say 100 oranges per day is enough.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NAH/is_n5_v27/ai_21024246/pg_1

See how the experts disagree what is enough. But the research doesn't
lie, the benefits are well known. The controversy is about what should
be considered to little.

Quoted message said:

And what prison is this that averages one killing per day? The
homicide rate in US state prisons in 2002 was 4 per 100,000 inmates.
Even including suicides only brings it up to about 50 per 100,000
(http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/newsroom/2005/shspljpr.htm). Using that
figure for both suicides and killings would require an inmate
population of 730,000 to average one death per day.

Yeah, I probably didn't remember that statistic correctly. Wouldn't
you think? Yes, I think thats what happened. lol I tell that story
because that was what got me interested in the topic. What a great
example of what happens when the experts are ignorant enough to leave
things up to John Doe.

Don't take my diet advice for granted. You start here for the more
credible reports :-)

http://news.google.com/news?q=vitamin

This MD girl is also hilarious if you have enough ego to listen to
her.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2371201605571520281

Try not to run away till she takes of her coat.

lol