Helmet debate, helmet debate



Peter McCallum said:
E
I used to get pretty uptight about people blasting their car horns and
yelling and all that. These days I just wave at them when they do it.
The friendlier the wave the better, it seems to get right under their
skin.

P
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

blowing kisses works as well ;) and can be combined with the super friendly "Howya goin'" wave for added effect :D
 
ABC Radio 720 in Perth is about to address the question "Would you ride a bike if you didn't have to wear a helmet?"

I'll listen in to hear if there are any new points or just the same old stuff.


SteveA
 
Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> I rode to school from grade 1 onwards. The first week or so Dad
> walked with me, but after that I said I was big enough to ride by
> myself :) By grade 2 I had a bike with real pump up tyres!


I was riding to kindy when I was four on pump-up tyres. It was even a
Montessori kindy, in 1947. A bicycle was my only independent form of
transport till I was 21, when I got myself a BSA.

Theo
 
"Bleve" wrote:

> You keep making the claim that compulsory helmets stop people riding -
> I think that's ********. It did when it was first done, sure,


Yep, sure did. Anecdotal I know, but at the school where I was teaching,
bike use dropped from 200-300 riders to as little as 20 in the year
compulsory helmets came in.

> but I don't think it does now.


Have a look at most schools, There will be a bike shed (if you're lucky) but
it will be pretty empty. At my current school, out of 1200 students about 6
ride. There's a good deterent at work. These days laziness, fearful parents
who drive kids everywhere and time pressures are part of the reason, but
much of this is associated with perceptions about dangers of cycling, and
having to wear a helmet is a marker that many parents will be worried about,
consciously or subconsciously. For teenage girls especially (none of them
ride to my school) a helmet messes up your hair, end of story.

> Back then, it was unusual for a family to
> have more than one car, or to have schools a long way from home, and
> shops were open a lot less, so travel had to be a lot more organised.
> Nowdays, most families have 2 or 3 cars, they drive everywhere. Kids
> get cars for their birthdays when they turn 18! They drive to the
> stupormarket to buy a carton of milk! Teenagers aren't driving because
> they think riding's dangerous (teenagers avoiding high risk activity?!)
> they're driving because it's cheap and prestigious. The world changed,


I was a teenager in the '70s and none of the above is really any different
to the perceptions and experiences I had then. Not as many two-car families
I guess, but everything else you describe was typical of a teenager's view
on life. But we still rode bikes about for fun, and with no helmets.

> and helmet compulsion is (I think, I can't prove it, but neither can
> you prove otherwise) a small factor in the reduction of people riding
> pushbikes. The biggie is just how affordable cars are at the moment.


Cars were pretty damn cheap in the 1970s. Falcon wagon for $5-6000 when
average incomes were about $12-15000. Are todays Falcon/Commodores less than
40% of average incomes? I think not. But we still rode bikes as kids, and
even after we'd turned 18, for transport. Attitudes played a bigger factor,
and having to wear a helmet changes attitudes regarding the dangers of
cycling.

> Hold your breath, this will change soon enough as we run out of oil.
>
> For what its worth, I think compulsory helmets are philosophically bad,
> but I don't believe that they're *the* reason less people ride than did
> in the 80's.


We'll have to agree to disagree then.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)
 
Peter Signorini said:



Cars were pretty damn cheap in the 1970s. Falcon wagon for $5-6000 when
average incomes were about $12-15000. Are todays Falcon/Commodores less than
40% of average incomes? I think not. But we still rode bikes as kids, and
even after we'd turned 18, for transport. Attitudes played a bigger factor,
and having to wear a helmet changes attitudes regarding the dangers of
cycling.

average wages first broke through the $5,000 in 1974. By 1980 they had topped $10,000. They are currently at $42,000
(according to ABS)

so cars were more expensive then.

But the tax brackets are hardly different - WTF.
 
"Bleve" wrote:

> Terry Collins wrote:


>> Actually, it isn't bicycling that is dangerous, it is being forced to
>> ride on roads with drivers that are encouraged to run you over that is
>> dangerous.

>
> Both the crashes I've had while riding were far separated from cars.
> One was on a bike path! Riding bikes is not a risk-free activity.


Yes, but if you look at the deaths it is a different picture. Very few are
not involved with a car.

From: http://www.pcug.org.au/~psvansch/crag/surveys2.htm
"As a motor vehicle was involved in 92 per cent of fatal accidents to
cyclists in Australia in 1988 (Attewell and Dowse, 1992), the behaviour of
motorists is a critical factor in death and serious injury of cyclists.
Following intensified random checks of speed and blood alcohol, and
improvements in roads, total road fatalities declined by 30 per cent from
1989 to 1992, from 2804 to 1974. The decline has continued, to 1903 in the
twelve months ended October 1993 (FORS, 1993).

The general decline of 30 per cent is reflected in deaths of pedestrians. It
would therefore explain half or more of the 58 per cent decline in deaths of
cyclists."

Seems to sugest that road death improvement is a multi-faceted approach. A
lot of work to change drivers' attitudes and behaviour made cycling safer,
and it still will today. I'd love to see more data on the benefits to
cyclist deaths of the 50kmh residential speed limits and 40 kmh school
zones.

In my youth all the traffic drove down residential streets with a 60 kmh
limit, but usually at 65-70 kmh. But there were more kids riding bikes,
kicking footies, and generally running about, so drivers were also more
aware (I believe) that they had to be ready to slow down. That is often not
the case today as $WDs swerve aroound the streets, lunging through stop
signs and crowding me out as I approach chicanes.


--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)
 
sinus wrote:
> Peter Signorini Wrote:


>> Cars were pretty damn cheap in the 1970s. Falcon wagon for $5-6000
>> when average incomes were about $12-15000.


I bought a new VW Type III in 1971 for $2400. A Falcon/Holden was about
$3000.

> average wages first broke through the $5,000 in 1974. By 1980 they had
> topped $10,000. They are currently at $42,000
> (according to ABS)


I was on an above average wage of $4000 then. The max wage you could earn
and still qualify for State Housing was $2500.

Theo
 
Peter Signorini said:
Have a look at most schools, There will be a bike shed (if you're lucky) but
it will be pretty empty. At my current school, out of 1200 students about 6
ride. There's a good deterent at work. These days laziness, fearful parents
who drive kids everywhere and time pressures are part of the reason, but
much of this is associated with perceptions about dangers of cycling, and
having to wear a helmet is a marker that many parents will be worried about,
consciously or subconsciously. For teenage girls especially (none of them
ride to my school) a helmet messes up your hair, end of story.


That was then, but this is now. Why get stuck in the past? Sure there's major problems in how the community perceives cycling but why harp on like *nothing* can be done?

Numerous councils are now employing Sustainable Transport officers and the inbalance is being redressed. I mentioned on another thread earlier this week how I saw heaps of school children riding home over in Brunswick. Ok it's the inner 'burbs buts it's excellent example for starters. There's walking bus initiatives, Bike Ed etc, and organisations such as Environment Victoria are holding courses such as Families of the Future:
http://www.envict.org.au/inform.php?menu=8&submenu=715&item=774

More stuff from EV:
http://www.envict.org.au/inform.php?menu=8&item=841

I helped out on one of these events at Fitzroy Primary last year as a rep from YarraBUG:
http://www.envict.org.au/inform.php?menu=8&submenu=1025&item=1026
Cycling into a Sustainable Future
Cycling into a Sustainable Future is an innovative program to promote bikes in primary and secondary schools. EV is working with schools in Melton Shire and City of Yarra to build on the existing cycling culture in each location.

Like what you're reading? Then contact EV and then your local council and tell them you want something like this in your area!
 

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