Helmet saved me



Simon Brooke wrote on 24/09/2006 23:21 +0100:
>
> Be careful about saying that. This time last year I was saying (honestly)
> that I hadn't fallen off a road bike (except low speed prat falls) in
> thirty years. And then I did...
>


And IIRC, a cotton cap saved your life ;-)

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
 
in message <[email protected]>, Tony Raven
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Simon Brooke wrote on 24/09/2006 23:21 +0100:
>>
>> Be careful about saying that. This time last year I was saying
>> (honestly) that I hadn't fallen off a road bike (except low speed prat
>> falls) in thirty years. And then I did...

>
> And IIRC, a cotton cap saved your life ;-)


Indeed.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other
;; languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their
;; pockets for new vocabulary -- James D. Nicoll
 
On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:34:38 +0100, Simon Brooke
<[email protected]> wrote:

>in message <[email protected]>, Keyser Sose ('[email protected]')
>wrote:
>
>No. If you can positively identify the van as the same van (so that you
>could swear to it), then that's usable evidence. You should make a
>complaint to the police now, stating clearly that you recognised the van
>as one you regularly see and can recognise again; then, when you get the
>number, go and see them again.


Presumeably the white van has some distinguishing marks on it that you
could use to recognise it again. Describing these to the police
should help the culprit be identified. If you saw the driver then
describe him. Failing to stop after an accident is a very serious
offence.

Mark
 
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:33 Mark wrote:
>
> Presumeably the white van has some distinguishing marks on it that you
> could use to recognise it again. Describing these to the police
> should help the culprit be identified. If you saw the driver then
> describe him. Failing to stop after an accident is a very serious
> offence.


IME, reporting a collision where one is left lying in the road (with,
as OP mentioned, the rest of the traffic concerned only not to scratch
their vehicles as they manoevre round one) and where the colliding
vehicle didn't stop, does not result in police tracing the vehicle and
"speaking to the driver". I endorse comments advising having a
checkup by a doctor, and would personally suggest that a visit to A&E
as soon as possible after the incident is best. Even if you expect to
get the all-clear or "why bother us with this trivia?", some injuries
take a while to show their full symptoms (the A&E wait is usually long
enough!) and this at least puts on record that your X, Y and Z were
seen to be in condition A, B and C, consistent with your version of
the collision. IIRC, one of the standard questions asked by insurance
claims forms and/or police taking a statement is "did you visit A&E?"
A negative response appears to be taken to mean that injuries were
trivial and therefore the collision was hardly worth bothering about.

--
Tim Forcer [email protected]
The University of Southampton, UK

The University is not responsible for my opinions
 
In article <[email protected]>
Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
> in message <[email protected]>, Tony Raven
> ('[email protected]') wrote:
>
> > Simon Brooke wrote on 24/09/2006 23:21 +0100:
> >>
> >> Be careful about saying that. This time last year I was saying
> >> (honestly) that I hadn't fallen off a road bike (except low speed prat
> >> falls) in thirty years. And then I did...

> >
> > And IIRC, a cotton cap saved your life ;-)

>
> Indeed.
>

I've been thinking of investing in one of these, as the traffic around
here seems to be getting worse - should I go for world champ stripes or
TDF? I've seen some Livestrong caps - do these provide protection to
parts other than my head?
 
Rob Morley wrote:

> I've been thinking of investing in one of these, as the traffic around
> here seems to be getting worse - should I go for world champ stripes or
> TDF?


I always feel that if I have something suggesting sporting prowess then
the garment and myself will only ever be an embarrassment to one other,
so I just get things in colours I like. I have a rather nice Bianchi
celeste one.

> I've seen some Livestrong caps - do these provide protection to
> parts other than my head?


No, they just mean you Care about it...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:03:31 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:


> I've been thinking of investing in one of these, as the traffic around
> here seems to be getting worse - should I go for world champ stripes or
> TDF?


White with red polkadots improves your climbing ability!


Mike
 
Peter Clinch wrote:
> Rob Morley wrote:
>
> > I've been thinking of investing in one of these, as the traffic around
> > here seems to be getting worse - should I go for world champ stripes or
> > TDF?

>
> I always feel that if I have something suggesting sporting prowess then
> the garment and myself will only ever be an embarrassment to one other,
> so I just get things in colours I like. I have a rather nice Bianchi
> celeste one.


As featured in the Dundee City Council greenways leaflet, a picture of
a somewhat motion blurred Mr Clinch with sandals, yellow brompton and
celeste cap.

...d
 
On 25 Sep 2006 06:36:36 -0700 someone who may be "David Martin"
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>As featured in the Dundee City Council greenways leaflet, a picture of
>a somewhat motion blurred Mr Clinch with sandals, yellow brompton and
>celeste cap.


Celeste? Isn't that what persons of the male persuasion call blue?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
 
in message <[email protected]>, Rob Morley
('[email protected]') wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>
> Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>> in message <[email protected]>, Tony Raven
>> ('[email protected]') wrote:
>>
>> > Simon Brooke wrote on 24/09/2006 23:21 +0100:
>> >>
>> >> Be careful about saying that. This time last year I was saying
>> >> (honestly) that I hadn't fallen off a road bike (except low speed
>> >> prat falls) in thirty years. And then I did...
>> >
>> > And IIRC, a cotton cap saved your life ;-)

>>
>> Indeed.
>>

> I've been thinking of investing in one of these, as the traffic around
> here seems to be getting worse - should I go for world champ stripes or
> TDF?


Red ones are fastest...

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Our modern industrial economy takes a mountain covered with trees,
;; lakes, running streams and transforms it into a mountain of junk,
;; garbage, slime pits, and debris. -- Edward Abbey
 
in message <[email protected]>, David Hansen
('[email protected]') wrote:

> On 25 Sep 2006 06:36:36 -0700 someone who may be "David Martin"
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
>>As featured in the Dundee City Council greenways leaflet, a picture of
>>a somewhat motion blurred Mr Clinch with sandals, yellow brompton and
>>celeste cap.

>
> Celeste? Isn't that what persons of the male persuasion call blue?


'Celeste', as patented by Messrs Bianchi in order to dissuade thieves from
ever stealing their products, is a curious non-colour which can most
easily be described as looking like the vomit of someone living on a diet
of pureed spinach and blackcurrant fool. No-one of any persuasion could
describe it as blue.

[fx: looks up] The paving slabs are flying low these days, I notice.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The Conservative Party now has the support of a smaller proportion of
the electorate in Scotland than Sinn Fein have in Northern Ireland.
 
Tim Forcer wrote on 25/09/2006 12:18 +0100:
>
> IME, reporting a collision where one is left lying in the road (with,
> as OP mentioned, the rest of the traffic concerned only not to scratch
> their vehicles as they manoevre round one) and where the colliding
> vehicle didn't stop, does not result in police tracing the vehicle and
> "speaking to the driver".


You and I live in a different Hampshire. When I was knocked off my bike
and grazed my knees the Hampshire police were very happy to have a
report and know whether I wanted to press charges (I didn't). A couple
of weeks later I got a call to ask if I had the drivers correct address
(she had given me a wrong one) and the details of her insurance which
they then proceeded to give me. They also said they had spoken to the
driver and witness and taken statements. Some time later when the
insurance company started to play their usual games, I wrote and asked
for copies of the statements which, other than the driver's, they
supplied. The witness statement blew so many holes in the driver's
claims that the insurance company settled in full. So full marks to
Hampshire police from my perspective.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
 
Simon Brooke wrote:

> 'Celeste',


snip

> No-one of any persuasion could
> describe it as blue.


Then why is it called Turkish blue? ;)

--
---
Marten
 
Simon Brooke wrote:

>> Celeste? Isn't that what persons of the male persuasion call blue?

>
> 'Celeste', as patented by Messrs Bianchi in order to dissuade thieves
> from ever stealing their products, is a curious non-colour which can
> most easily be described as looking like the vomit of someone living
> on a diet of pureed spinach and blackcurrant fool. No-one of any
> persuasion could describe it as blue.


It used to be more blue than what Bianchi use now. Really was orrible.
Today's greeny Celeste is nice in comparison, methinks.

~PB
 
Tony Raven wrote:
> Tim Forcer wrote on 25/09/2006 12:18 +0100:
> >
> > IME, reporting a collision where one is left lying in the road (with,
> > as OP mentioned, the rest of the traffic concerned only not to scratch
> > their vehicles as they manoevre round one) and where the colliding
> > vehicle didn't stop, does not result in police tracing the vehicle and
> > "speaking to the driver".

>
> You and I live in a different Hampshire.

<snip>
> ...So full marks to
> Hampshire police from my perspective.
>


I'm happy to share Tony's Hampshire. I posted (elsewhere, IIRC) last
year of my non-contact run in with a 4x4 driver: emailed police with
complaint at 0800; phoned by police by 1000; driver visited by 1800 and
a final report back by police at 1900.

Sure, as there were no witnesses and damage, there was never going to
be a prosecution but the police demonstrated to my satisfaction that
they take verbal threats by drivers towards cyclists very seriously.
 
Not Responding wrote:
> I'm happy to share Tony's Hampshire. I posted (elsewhere, IIRC) last
> year of my non-contact run in with a 4x4 driver: emailed police with
> complaint at 0800; phoned by police by 1000; driver visited by 1800 and
> a final report back by police at 1900.
>
> Sure, as there were no witnesses and damage, there was never going to
> be a prosecution but the police demonstrated to my satisfaction that
> they take verbal threats by drivers towards cyclists very seriously.


This has nothing to do with you being a local councillor and pillar of
the establishment?

...d
 
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:35:45 +0100, David Hansen
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Celeste? Isn't that what persons of the male persuasion call blue?


It's Bianchi's "trade mark" colour.
 
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:17 Tony Raven wrote:
>
> Tim Forcer wrote on 25/09/2006 12:18 +0100:
>>
>> IME, reporting a collision where one is left lying in the road (with,
>> as OP mentioned, the rest of the traffic concerned only not to scratch
>> their vehicles as they manoevre round one) and where the colliding
>> vehicle didn't stop, does not result in police tracing the vehicle and
>> "speaking to the driver".

>
> You and I live in a different Hampshire. When I was knocked off my bike
> and grazed my knees the Hampshire police were very happy to have a
> report and know whether I wanted to press charges (I didn't). A couple
> of weeks later I got a call to ask if I had the drivers correct address
> (she had given me a wrong one) and the details of her insurance which
> they then proceeded to give me. They also said they had spoken to the
> driver and witness and taken statements. Some time later when the
> insurance company started to play their usual games, I wrote and asked
> for copies of the statements which, other than the driver's, they
> supplied. The witness statement blew so many holes in the driver's
> claims that the insurance company settled in full. So full marks to
> Hampshire police from my perspective.


My experience is varied, as is that of friends and acquaintances.

Personal experience over perhaps fifteen to twenty years:

1) Knocked over by driver turning left at traffic lights (arriving
there _after_ me), in front of witnesses, number supplied to police.
No significant injury or damage. No police action.

2) Deliberately run down. Further assault by driver prevented by
onlookers. Very minor injuries, no damage. Reported to police who
took this very seriously. Not wanting my address and other details
disclosed to someone with clear and dangerous aggressive tendencies, I
said I did not want to press charges. Police spoke to driver at his
work (he'd been driving a company vehicle). Police excellent.

3) Knocked over by vehicle moving in too soon on very busy road. Minor
injuries and minor damage. No witnesses and nobody stopped. No
police action.

4) Very near miss by vehicle overtaking on blind left-hand bend
leading to very narrow bridge (immediately followed by right-hand
bend, so any overtake is mad). Police refused even to record my
report, claiming overtaking at that point is safe. At 5-10mph with
any approaching traffic doing a similar speed, maybe. At 30mph+,
certainly not.

5) Run into by vehicle turning right out of side road. Driver very
apologetic, put me (no injuries) and bike (buckled front wheel,
otherwise fine) into his vehicle, took me to work. I bought a new
wheel in the lunch hour, rang him with costs, cheque appeared next
day. No police involvement - partly due to previous experiences, it
didn't seem that it would serve any useful purpose. Driver rang up a
few days later to confirm that all was OK.

6) Knocked down by vehicle turning left across me on second part of
staggered crossroads, vehicle having pulled up on my inside to turn
right for first part of junction. Bike badly damaged, me slightly.
Witness. Driver denied any responsibility, claiming I'd come up on
_his_ inside in the matter of yards between the two parts of the
junction. Carried bike (not easy with expanding knee and elbow
joints) to police station and reported incident, then to LBS, who
fixed it that day. No police action. Insurance paid up (less
excess).

7) Vehicle pulled alongside, didn't get ahead all the way along road
to T-junction where I wanted to turn right. Vehicle indicated left,
so I just sat and waited. She turned left anyway, and, while I
managed to hop off and lift bike onto pavement, I wasn't quick enough
to stop the front wheel being buckled. Details exchanged, she agreed
to pay for new front wheel. Carried bike home, swapped to spare,
bought new wheel on way home. Phone call from driver to say she'd
changed her mind and it was all my fault. Pointed out to her that in
that case I'd have to report the incident to the police so I could
make an insurance claim. Went up to cop shop, told them the story
(and handed over the story in writing), waited. Driver had long
conversation with officer (out of my hearing), agreed to pay up. No
further police action.

8) Knocked down in broad daylight by little old lady turning right out
of side road, in full view of two police officers. Minor injuries,
which didn't show full extent for several hours. Police took
statement but didn't take any action against driver. Insurance claim
against driver fizzled out - I just gave up in the end because a)
everything was taking so long b) because I hadn't gone to A&E or GP
promptly, the medical situation was contested c) I'd recovered all
except the excess from my insurance.

9) Smashed up by white van man turning right across me. Significant
injuries (week in hospital), bike wrecked, witnesses. Still waiting
to hear what police have done about this - but it's only
nine-and-a-half months on, so clearly plenty of time for things to
happen.

10) Several incidents where I was merely an observer of erratic,
dangerous or apparently drunken driving, or where something of the
sort occurred which endangered me, but I was able to take effective
avoiding action. Very variable response, which I suspect depended on
factors such as extent of details provided, location of incident, time
from incident to report, etc. None ever followed up by taking of
statement or other queries from police.

That's those I can remember details of off the top of my head.

So, as time goes on, the Hampshire (well, Southampton) in which I live
changes. As do its coppers - even the older ones look bloody young to
me now!

My impression is that taking action against motorists who cut up or
knock over cyclists isn't a _particularly_ high priority. Some
officers seem to take it very seriously, some less so. Some seem to
regard bike/car incidents as a sort of "domestic", where, providing
nobody had to go to A&E, and particularly if there aren't any
independent witnesses, they're happy to metaphorically knock heads
together and send the parties on their way with a promise to behave
better in future.

Given that Southampton seems to have a substantial population of
cyclists who disregard any and all road law and Highway Code
requirements, perhaps the police feel that sometimes a particular
cyclist has simply got what cyclists in general deserve (or perhaps
that's how witnesses approach their statements to police). But then,
in the last couple of years, Southampton has set up cops-on-bikes, who
can be seen happily cycling on pavements, cycling the wrong way up
one-way streets, turning right against a "No Right Turn" sign, etc. So
perhaps I'm wrong to imply that general levels of infringement create
police antipathy.

Frankly, I think police have a very difficult job to do, that they
don't get anything like the recognition and appreciation they deserve
(particularly on a personal level), that they are (as in so many areas
of public life) under-resourced over-regulated and overstretched (and,
again as in so many areas of public life, obliged to have a public
face which is defensive and unapologetic). I'm also sure that, if
they take anything to the point of formal investigation, there are a
mountain of forms to be filled in and reports to be submitted.
Therefore I don't have the slightest resentment at what I regard as
variable and, sometimes, unsatisfactory treatment of my various bike
incidents - apart from the (IMO) idiot who seemed unable to appreciate
the full dangers of a particular stretch of road. However, I do feel
that it is important for cyclists, when they are the victim in an
incident, to be aware that what they would _like_ to be the outcome
may prove to be an unrealistic aspiration.

Certainly, report anything you feel deserves reporting. If there are
(or might be) injuries, make sure you go to A&E, a drop-in centre or
your GP promptly. If there are witnesses, get details. But be
prepared for all this information simply to be put on file - or not
even that.

YMMV - mine does.

--
Tim Forcer [email protected]
The University of Southampton, UK

The University is not responsible for my opinions
 
In article <[email protected]>
David Hansen <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 25 Sep 2006 06:36:36 -0700 someone who may be "David Martin"
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
> >As featured in the Dundee City Council greenways leaflet, a picture of
> >a somewhat motion blurred Mr Clinch with sandals, yellow brompton and
> >celeste cap.

>
> Celeste? Isn't that what persons of the male persuasion call blue?
>
>

It might be that sort of blue-green sometimes known as duck egg or pale
aqua, depending on who you ask. Some people seem to think powder blue
is duck egg, and and royal blue is aqua - there's no hope for them ...