Helmet saved my...

[Ozark Bicycle]

On May 30, 6:30 pm, Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 30, 1:45 am, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > ...noggin!
>
> > Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just as I came
> > around a turn. (4" of bead separated from the casing; fairly new Michelin
> > Pro Race 2; no recent flats so not a "tube installation" issue.)
>
> > I briefly thought I could save it, but as I headed down and left into the
> > oncoming lane a car was headed right in my path so I had no choice but to
> > try to steer the bike to the right. BLAM -- down I went on my right side at
> > close to 40 mph.
>
> > Immediate injury noticed was to my right shoulder. Probable torn ligaments
> > if not rotator cuff (ripped previously so familiar with the pain). Road
> > rash was surprisingly slight (knee, elbow, hip and shoulder -- the latter
> > two protected a bit by Spandex so not visible until later).
>
> > Another rider, Mike, came along and helped me. Started to fix my flat when
> > he saw the trashed tire bead. (No pics yet.) Called my friend Miles (of
> > world famous "Miles Todd crash video" fame) to pick me up.
>
> > Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job." I touched the outside
> > shell and felt a scrape, but had no idea that I'd even hit my head, much
> > less cracked the **** out of it:
>
> >http://home.san.rr.com:80/billsornson/(serverwouldn't allow more than
> > these three pics).
>
> > So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up shoulder I
> > feel pretty decent. Sure my neck is going to be sore as hell tomorrow, and
> > may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will tell), but no concussion,
> > cracked skull, or hood ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm
> > feeling pretty fortunate. I just wish it had been my own error instead of
> > an obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
> > tire?!?)...
>
> > Beaten Up But Not Beat (Yet) Bill
>
> Wonderful!
>
> You touched your helmet to the ground so gently that you weren't even
> aware you had done it.
>
> Your fragile foam cap apparently did not crush (the mechanism by which
> they are purported to "save you") but instead failed by cracking,
> apparently due to tensile stresses tangential to the shell. IOW, it
> failed in a non-protective way.
>
> And you assume this is a sign from the helmet gods that you must
> quickly do missionary work? Your gullibility rating is off the chart!
>
> If you really want to get heavily into missionary work, Bill, do
> this: Wear a helmet that's even bigger. Try for one about 20 inches
> in diameter.
>
> But make it even more fragile than the current offerings. Make it
> just a network of paper-thin webs of styrofoam connecting a few
> hundred large holes. (You can say it's "super-ventilated.") Then
> ride in it, walk in it, hike in it, play golf in it...
>
> I'm sure you'll soon accumulate many satisfying cracks and dents.
> Hell, it will probably "save your noggin" dozens of times a day.
> That should be enough to convince even more heathens that they need
> salvation from helmetlessness!
>
> If they're gullible enough, that is.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

In March of this year, a poster in another NG (rec.autos.driving,
IIRC), characterized you as "a bored, retired guy who likes to jerkoff
on the internet". I found that so unerringly accurate that I smiled
even as I wiped the coffee off my monitor screen. ;-)

 

[Pat]

"Frank Krygowski" --why don't you and landotter start your own newsgroup?
You're isolated here as stubborn cases who refuse to believe anybody's
testimony or eyewitness accounts. In my own riding club, practically
everyone has either had an accident or witnessed someone's accident.
Evidently, you haven't had an accident. That's great, but don't keep
denigrating people who have first hand experience. Frankly, I wonder if you
would even have the guts to post anything after an accident, such as, "I
sure wish I had a helmet that day." Nah, that would be too much to ask
for....

 

[Bill Sornson]

Pat wrote:

LEARN HOW TO QUOTE. I SEE NOW THAT SOME OF WHAT YOU "WROTE" WAS REALLY FROM
THE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR GROUND RAT.

 

[Bill Sornson]

Pat wrote:
> "Frank Krygowski" --why don't you and landotter start your own
> newsgroup? You're isolated here as stubborn cases who refuse to
> believe anybody's testimony or eyewitness accounts. In my own riding
> club, practically everyone has either had an accident or witnessed
> someone's accident. Evidently, you haven't had an accident. That's
> great, but don't keep denigrating people who have first hand
> experience. Frankly, I wonder if you would even have the guts to
> post anything after an accident, such as, "I sure wish I had a helmet
> that day." Nah, that would be too much to ask for....

Pat, I apologize for the post I just made (above a bit). You didn't quote
anyone so it looked like you were attacking me, when in fact you were merely
replying to known assholes like Crank 'n GroundRat.

I thought it was odd that you'd take that side, but since I plonked those
two dickwads long ago I had no way of knowing that wasn't your text.

Sorry.

Bill

 

[Bill Sornson]

Pat wrote:

Pat, please try to quote (and attribute) stuff. It really looks like you
wrote stuff that you didn't.

> You've proven time and time again that you simply make **** up without
> evidence. You scratched your helmet. So? Perhaps you saved yourself a
> band aid or not--but the popular thing to do these days is to scream
> hallelujah--it saved my life! {rest snipped}

Please point to me ever saying that, much less in this thread.

Whoever you are. (I smell a...RAT tho'.)

 

[Frank Krygowski]

On May 31, 8:53 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Frank Krygowski" --why don't you and landotter start your own newsgroup?
> You're isolated here as stubborn cases who refuse to believe anybody's
> testimony or eyewitness accounts.

Pat, some extremely intelligent helmet skeptics have told me they've
given up trying to convince the innumerate helmeteers by using logic.
They've complimented me for having far more patience than they do.
That's the prime reason that helmet worshippers have the majority in
this particular thread.

Now, let's discuss the facts, shall we?

> In my own riding club, practically
> everyone has either had an accident or witnessed someone's accident.

OK, if you say so. I don't believe that's true in my club, unless you
define "accident" and "witness" very, very loosely. I've been very
active in a large club for over 25 years. (President, multiple other
offices, etc.) I've seen less than ten on-road crashes, none of which
caused significant injury. YMMV.

But what does your sentence really mean? That riding is so dangerous
that head protection is absolutely necessary? Please be specific.

> Evidently, you haven't had an accident.

I've had one moving on-road fall since I began riding as an
enthusiastic adult, and that was at about 3 mph.

> That's great, but don't keep denigrating people who have first hand experience.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If someone crashes into an
opening car door, and I say "You shouldn't have ridden within reach of
a car door," is that denigrating? I think it's simply good advice.

But this thread was started by someone who isn't intelligent enough to
grasp Usenet's thread structure; and who says "I didn't even realize I
hit my head, but my fragile helmet failed anyway, therefore my helmet
saved my noggin!"

That's absolute nonsense on the face if it! Unless, that is, you
dispute the fact that his helmet sticks out further than his head, and
that such a gentle touch on a helmet would have to have missed his
head.

> Frankly, I wonder if you
> would even have the guts to post anything after an accident, such as, "I
> sure wish I had a helmet that day." Nah, that would be too much to ask
> for....

Assuming, of course, that I would ever have a crash where a helmet
would make a difference. Given my many decades of riding bikes in all
sorts of conditions, and given my research into actual bike crash
statistics, I know such a crash is extremely unlikely.

Which is, of course, the dispute that's the foundation of most helmet
disagreements. You've become convinced that simply riding a bike is
as dangerous as driving a race car, playing pro football, doing
whitewater kayaking, doing extreme rock climbing, and other activities
for which helmets are common.

Meanwhile, I think that's a scam generated by helmet-funded
advertising and lobbying.

And I've got the data, while you don't.

Now, do you wish to discuss facts and data?

- Frank Krygowski

 

[DC1999]

On May 29, 10:45 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...noggin!
>
> Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just as I came
> around a turn. (4" of bead separated from the casing; fairly new Michelin
> Pro Race 2; no recent flats so not a "tube installation" issue.)
>
> I briefly thought I could save it, but as I headed down and left into the
> oncoming lane a car was headed right in my path so I had no choice but to
> try to steer the bike to the right. BLAM -- down I went on my right side at
> close to 40 mph.
>
> Immediate injury noticed was to my right shoulder. Probable torn ligaments
> if not rotator cuff (ripped previously so familiar with the pain). Road
> rash was surprisingly slight (knee, elbow, hip and shoulder -- the latter
> two protected a bit by Spandex so not visible until later).
>
> Another rider, Mike, came along and helped me. Started to fix my flat when
> he saw the trashed tire bead. (No pics yet.) Called my friend Miles (of
> world famous "Miles Todd crash video" fame) to pick me up.
>
> Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job." I touched the outside
> shell and felt a scrape, but had no idea that I'd even hit my head, much
> less cracked the **** out of it:
>
> http://home.san.rr.com:80/billsornson/(server wouldn't allow more than
> these three pics).
>
> So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up shoulder I
> feel pretty decent. Sure my neck is going to be sore as hell tomorrow, and
> may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will tell), but no concussion,
> cracked skull, or hood ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm
> feeling pretty fortunate. I just wish it had been my own error instead of
> an obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
> tire?!?)...
>
> Beaten Up But Not Beat (Yet) Bill

Glad to hear your episode had a decent (if not "happy") ending. So
did mine. Down hard as a result of a railroad track in the street in
San Francisco, and my helmet had a one inch crack all the way
through.

Now the replacement helmet is four years old and I'm wondering if it's
time to get another new one. It's never been dropped or beaten up,
except from the sun and my sweaty head.

What do you'all think?

Dave
dc1999 at gmail dot com

 

[Frank Krygowski]

On May 31, 1:06 pm, DC1999 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [My] helmet is four years old and I'm wondering if it's
> time to get another new one. It's never been dropped or beaten up,
> except from the sun and my sweaty head.
>
> What do you'all think?

For a while, Bell Sports (and other manufacturers) recommended
replacing helmets every three years "for your safety" or some such
phrasing.

Then their lawyers apparently realized the problems with that. So
they switched to recommending replacing your helmet every three years
"so you can take advantage of new features and styles," or something
like that. Now they simply seem to say "replace it every three years;
call us if you have questions."

Frankly, other manufacturers should get in on this. For example, Snap-
On Tools should start saying "Replace your ball pein hammer every
three years, to keep up with our hammer fashions!"

Meanwhile, I've never seen any test evidence that helmets degrade with
time. One major helmet promotion website tested a very old helmet and
found it passed the test standards just fine.

Styrofoam is quite inert, unless it's attacked by solvents or their
fumes. Styrofoam in constant sunlight (like thin styrofoam cup
litter, seeing 4000 hr/year) takes years to degrade. And your helmet
is out in sunlight only a few hundred hours each year.

Remember, your helmet is tested and certified to protect only against
direct (not glancing or rotational) impacts of about 14 mph. If you
leave it out in direct sunlight for ten years straight, its protection
may be reduced to 13.9 years.

But it will be _so_ unfashionable by then!

- Frank Krygowski

 

[landotter]

On May 31, 12:06 pm, DC1999 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 29, 10:45 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > ...noggin!
>
> > Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just as I came
> > around a turn.  (4" of bead separated from the casing; fairly new Michelin
> > Pro Race 2; no recent flats so not a "tube installation" issue.)
>
> > I briefly thought I could save it, but as I headed down and left into the
> > oncoming lane a car was headed right in my path so I had no choice but to
> > try to steer the bike to the right.  BLAM -- down I went on my right side at
> > close to 40 mph.
>
> > Immediate injury noticed was to my right shoulder.  Probable torn ligaments
> > if not rotator cuff (ripped previously so familiar with the pain).  Road
> > rash was surprisingly slight (knee, elbow, hip and shoulder -- the latter
> > two protected a bit by Spandex so not visible until later).
>
> > Another rider, Mike, came along and helped me.  Started to fix my flatwhen
> > he saw the trashed tire bead.  (No pics yet.)  Called my friend Miles (of
> > world famous "Miles Todd crash video" fame) to pick me up.
>
> > Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job."  I touched the outside
> > shell and felt a scrape, but had no idea that I'd even hit my head, much
> > less cracked the **** out of it:
>
> >http://home.san.rr.com:80/billsornson/(serverwouldn't allow more than
> > these three pics).
>
> > So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up shoulder I
> > feel pretty decent.  Sure my neck is going to be sore as hell tomorrow, and
> > may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will tell), but no concussion,
> > cracked skull, or hood ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm
> > feeling pretty fortunate.  I just wish it had been my own error instead of
> > an obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
> > tire?!?)...
>
> > Beaten Up But Not Beat (Yet) Bill
>
> Glad to hear your episode had a decent (if not "happy") ending.  So
> did mine.  Down hard as a result of a railroad track in the street in
> San Francisco, and my helmet had a one inch crack all the way
> through.
>
> Now the replacement helmet is four years old and I'm wondering if it's
> time to get another new one.  It's never been dropped or beaten up,
> except from the sun and my sweaty head.
>
> What do you'all think?

I learned my lesson about rail tracks in '89, gave me a greasy leg...

http://tinyurl.com/5zso4l

http://tinyurl.com/5zso4l

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On May 31, 11:56 am, Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> bleated:

<**** snipped>

Here is an unerringly accurate assessment of the Usenet creature also
known to some here as "The Pompous Gasbag":

http://preview.tinyurl.com/4je8g7

or

http://tinyurl.com/4je8g7

Kudos to Ed P. !!

 

[Bill Sornson]

DC1999 wrote:
> On May 29, 10:45 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ...noggin!
>>
>> Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just
>> as I came around a turn. (4" of bead separated from the casing;
>> fairly new Michelin Pro Race 2; no recent flats so not a "tube
>> installation" issue.)
>>
>> I briefly thought I could save it, but as I headed down and left
>> into the oncoming lane a car was headed right in my path so I had no
>> choice but to try to steer the bike to the right. BLAM -- down I
>> went on my right side at close to 40 mph.
>>
>> Immediate injury noticed was to my right shoulder. Probable torn
>> ligaments if not rotator cuff (ripped previously so familiar with
>> the pain). Road rash was surprisingly slight (knee, elbow, hip and
>> shoulder -- the latter two protected a bit by Spandex so not visible
>> until later).
>>
>> Another rider, Mike, came along and helped me. Started to fix my
>> flat when he saw the trashed tire bead. (No pics yet.) Called my
>> friend Miles (of world famous "Miles Todd crash video" fame) to pick
>> me up.
>>
>> Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job." I touched the
>> outside shell and felt a scrape, but had no idea that I'd even hit
>> my head, much less cracked the **** out of it:
>>
>> http://home.san.rr.com:80/billsornson/(server wouldn't allow more
>> than these three pics).
>>
>> So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up
>> shoulder I feel pretty decent. Sure my neck is going to be sore as
>> hell tomorrow, and may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will
>> tell), but no concussion, cracked skull, or hood
>> ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm feeling pretty
>> fortunate. I just wish it had been my own error instead of an
>> obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
>> tire?!?)...
>>
>> Beaten Up But Not Beat (Yet) Bill
>
> Glad to hear your episode had a decent (if not "happy") ending. So
> did mine. Down hard as a result of a railroad track in the street in
> San Francisco, and my helmet had a one inch crack all the way
> through.
>
> Now the replacement helmet is four years old and I'm wondering if it's
> time to get another new one. It's never been dropped or beaten up,
> except from the sun and my sweaty head.
>
> What do you'all think?

We think you'll get flamed (ridiculed) for even asking. Sad, but true.

Personally, I like to have a few helmets in service so I can alternate their
use. Gets complicated/expensive with mirrors if you use them, but
otherwise, why not be fashionable?

BTW, I just pulled the tire that failed from my wheel and will post pics
soon. It was about a 2" separation (not 4"), with corresponding blown out
tube.

Glad you survived the RR track incident. People who slide out on those
often get hurt pretty badly (broken bones mostly, plus concussions).

Go buy a new lid, and keep the one you've got for backup use or easier
rides.

Bill S.

 

[Zoot Katz]

On Sat, 31 May 2008 10:06:57 -0700 (PDT), DC1999 <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Now the replacement helmet is four years old and I'm wondering if it's
>time to get another new one. It's never been dropped or beaten up,
>except from the sun and my sweaty head.
>
>What do you'all think?

I'm wearing the same helmet I bought ~1976. It's been dropped,
kicked, rolled over, thrown, beaten, stored for fourteen years, sat
on, cleaned with phosphates and solvents and left out in the weather.

It's stopped flying stones and repelled as many insects as it's
caught. It's never been called upon to do what it was designed to do.
That is, protecting a kayaker's skull from impact with rocks while
still being able to drain water quickly enough for eskimo rolls
without drowning.

It was cooler than the Bell styrofoam lined hard-shells of the time.
It also looked like a piece of serious gear. Styrofoam just didn't
inspire any confidence with me. It's too cheesey.

Today's shrink-wrapped foam beanies are lighter and truly disposable
after one use. I'd not replace an old one solely because of its age.
I've bought Bell VP1 Pro helmets and even used one once playing polo
where my head was momentarily caught between the turf and a team
mate's pedal. My ear was cut but I finished playing. Had I not been
wearing a helmet I'd have possibly had scalp wounds too. That helmet
is still in occasional service since it survived basically unscathed.

I've jarred my neck and gotten a slight headache running into a brick
wall on a wager but the old squash pot survived fine. I've replaced
the foam sweat pad a few times and the foam filled leatherette rear
strap parts with neoprene. It's old enough to get comments for its
retro-coolness and it's still my favourite helmet. It has lots of
surface area for reflective stickers and I added a Velcro patch
inside to hold a braided blonde synthetic pigtail I often wear.
(mental speed-bump)

The hard shell skate pot I bought to be fashionable will sometime be
replaced with another kayak hat http://tinyurl.com/2zheke or maybe a
rock climbing helmet. Bicycle helmets are mainly about aerodynamics.
The cheap helmets offer as much, and sometimes better, impact
absorbtion as the most expensive wind-tunnel tested designs and skate
helmets are built to take more than one crash.

Disclaimer: I live in a MHL jurisdiction and resent mandatory helmet
laws. I wear a helmet 99.5% of the time I ride, even since before
there was a law and associated $75 fine. As you can see, since there
is no stipulated SNELL rating written into the law, I no longer take
helmets very seriously.
<http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/434309078_9f3b31b314.jpg?v=1174898166>
--
zk

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
Zoot Katz <[email protected]> writes:

> Disclaimer: I live in a MHL jurisdiction and resent mandatory helmet
> laws. I wear a helmet 99.5% of the time I ride, even since before
> there was a law and associated $75 fine. As you can see, since there
> is no stipulated SNELL rating written into the law, I no longer take
> helmets very seriously.
> <http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/434309078_9f3b31b314.jpg?v=1174898166>

I've taken to forego wearing the bucket when I intuit
I can get away with it. But since last week was
Bike To Work Week, I anticipated a greater degree
of MHL enforcement.

When I leave the foam hat at home, it's not to make
any socio-political statement. It just feels more
comfortable without it, especially since I'm letting
my hair grow out again, and it keeps getting tangled
in the straps. Unlike the follically challenged, I
can grow my own bicycle helmet. As my hair gets longer,
it also gets thicker.

I bet my hair's as good as any helmet one could buy from the
cycling dep't at MEC. Maybe I could legally argue that I
indeed /am/ wearing a bicycle helmet. OTOH my luxurious
mane sometimes seems to evoke resentment in baldies much
younger than myself, and it'd be just my luck to be hassled
by a cue-ball cop.

Tell ya what, though -- when I'm riding sans helmet
I sense a greater application of caution on the parts
of drivers near me. More so than when I'm (minimally)
capitally "armoured" with egg carton material.

<shudder> I just had a frightful thought -- maybe with my
slim physique and ample hair, I look like a girl or woman
to drivers behind me.

Yikes!

Suddenly I've got the heebie-jeebies.

If I ever do get fined, I just might suggest raising my
fine from $75 to $150 -- with the stipulation that the
money goes to the B.C. Professional Firefighters'
Association Burn Fund, which contributes so much toward
the condolescence and recovery of burn victims. I might
even wrangle the judge into matching my fine and
contributing too.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 

[landotter]

On Jun 1, 4:32 am, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>         landotter <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>
> > On May 31, 8:20 am, Rob Lindauer <[email protected]> wrote:
[snip]
> >> Following the above broadcast from the Twilight Zone, we will resume our
> >> broadcasting from the real world...
> > Again: groupthink.
> > No evidence but a wittle little scratch--and a lot of hysteria.
> > I do live Stateside, but Americans are the most bizarre cyclists--they
> > are helmet bananas--but they ride like absolute assholes.
>
> Ya mean they (we North Americans) ride bikes like they (we North
> Americans) drive cars?
>
> Heh  
>
> > Spin those
> > prayer wheels! Who needs evidence?
>
> You're reminding me of a couple of Twilight Zone episodes
> involving the world being enshrouded in darkness.
>
> >  Who cares that statistically you're
> > far behind lidless Euros in bike safety--nah, enjoy your smug foamy
> > self-righteous panacea while you ride lightless and ride the wrong
> > way!
>
> <shrug> sometimes the one, sole bike lane is on the other/wrong
> side of the road  ;-)
>
> Anyways it's good that there are people who ride at all.
> Anywhere in the world.
>
> Please, let's support each other instead of tearing our
> bicycling selves apart.
>
> It's such a wonderment that riders all around the world
> can finally communicate via Usenet with each other.  Let's
> apply that benefit to its maximum advantage.  Back in the
> '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s and the first part of the '90s, most
> North Americans had no idea of what cycling was like in
> Europe and other parts of the world.  Now we're blessed.
> The worst sin is to dismiss & ignore a blessing that's
> practically shoved in yer face.
>
> You've experienced the respective Euro takes on practical,
> recreational and sport cycling, and have come away with
> some useful insights.  That's great!  Please continue to
> positively share.  We're all ears.

You do know it's like the whole Labor/Tory, Baptist/Humanist,
Republican/Democrat, authoritarian/libertarian schism--all of this,
right? In various places of course. The bike helmet issue is moot. Put
them on toddlers so they don't cry when they tip over and adults in
winter when its icy--other than that--helmets are the new gay. As gay
folks are becoming accepted, what better wedge issue to rile
uneducated voters with than bike helmets?

Image image image. I swear. My LBS sells more Electra Amsterdam and
similar bikes than anything else. If more bike shops in the states did
similarly, and also sold more low-speed accessories, such as plaid
panniers, wool caps, baskets where stuff rattles out over 12mph, and
less racy looking stuff in general--people wouldn't be pushed to ride
their bikes like yahoos. There's your common sense.

I do like to ride long and pretty fast a few times per week--but I
never saw the point in doing so in tight formation with other riders
in identical outfits while tailgating them, getting less of a workout,
but raising my risk of having an accident, so that I could scratch my
helmet...oh, never mind.

NEXT, who wants to go apeshitbananas about fluoride and LSD in the
water supply!

 

[SMS]

On May 31, 10:26 am, Ozark Bicycle
<[email protected]>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/4je8g7

Very true.

Unfortunately, the whole methodology of "tangential commentary,
logical fallacy, and outright falsehood" are also the mainstay of the
web site "http://cyclehelmets.org" of which he is a "patron" (which
simply means that he's putting his money where his mouth is). As Scott
McClellan's book (which should have been titled ("Everything We
Already Knew") showed, eventually the outright falsehoods are exposed
to a point that even those that pretend to deny the facts can no
longer do so.

Actually, since he has mentioned that there are riding situations
where he would wear a helmet, it's possible that "flying down a steep,
curvy road," would be one of those times. Unfortunately, you can't
predict when a mechanical failure, a driver error, or something else
beyond your control would make it beneficial to be wearing a helmet.

 

[landotter]

On Jun 1, 7:53 am, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 31, 10:26 am, Ozark Bicycle
> <[email protected]>
>
> >http://preview.tinyurl.com/4je8g7
>
> Very true.
>
> Unfortunately, the whole methodology of "tangential commentary,
> logical fallacy, and outright falsehood" are also the mainstay of the
> web site "http://cyclehelmets.org" of which he is a "patron" (which
> simply means that he's putting his money where his mouth is). As Scott
> McClellan's book (which should have been titled ("Everything We
> Already Knew") showed, eventually the outright falsehoods are exposed
> to a point that even those that pretend to deny the facts can no
> longer do so.
>
> Actually, since he has mentioned that there are riding situations
> where he would wear a helmet, it's possible that "flying down a steep,
> curvy road," would be one of those times. Unfortunately, you can't
> predict when a mechanical failure, a driver error, or something else
> beyond your control would make it beneficial to be wearing a helmet.

Nor can you predict when it would be beneficial to be wearing a neck
brace or back protector to protect against paralysis in other types of
freakish accidents.

Stop wringing your hands, mom, it's a dangerous world out there--but
regular bike riding isn't one of those really dangerous activities. To
use your logic--you never know when it would be beneficial to be
wearing a helmet at the Safeway because sometimes folks spill ice
cream in the frozen foods aisle...let's just take it to the absurdist
conclusion. You never know when you might get kicked in the bladder,
so lets all just walk around with Depends on. Wee wee wee!

<squirt!>

 

[DC1999]

On May 29, 10:45 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...noggin!
>
> Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just as I came
> around a turn. (4" of bead separated from the casing; fairly new Michelin
> Pro Race 2; no recent flats so not a "tube installation" issue.)
>
> I briefly thought I could save it, but as I headed down and left into the
> oncoming lane a car was headed right in my path so I had no choice but to
> try to steer the bike to the right. BLAM -- down I went on my right side at
> close to 40 mph.
>
> Immediate injury noticed was to my right shoulder. Probable torn ligaments
> if not rotator cuff (ripped previously so familiar with the pain). Road
> rash was surprisingly slight (knee, elbow, hip and shoulder -- the latter
> two protected a bit by Spandex so not visible until later).
>
> Another rider, Mike, came along and helped me. Started to fix my flat when
> he saw the trashed tire bead. (No pics yet.) Called my friend Miles (of
> world famous "Miles Todd crash video" fame) to pick me up.
>
> Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job." I touched the outside
> shell and felt a scrape, but had no idea that I'd even hit my head, much
> less cracked the **** out of it:
>
> http://home.san.rr.com:80/billsornson/(server wouldn't allow more than
> these three pics).
>
> So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up shoulder I
> feel pretty decent. Sure my neck is going to be sore as hell tomorrow, and
> may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will tell), but no concussion,
> cracked skull, or hood ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm
> feeling pretty fortunate. I just wish it had been my own error instead of
> an obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
> tire?!?)...
>
> Beaten Up But Not Beat (Yet) Bill

Frank K posted the following (partially edited) and then went on to
say that there was no test evidence of degradation of helmets over
time. I've seen and considered all the anti-helmet /pro-helmet
discussion, and I choose to wear a helmet. Can anyone say that Frank
is correct? Is there any evidence of degradation of the helmet over
time?

Frank Krygowski
View profile
More options May 31, 10:22 am
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: Frank Krygowski <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 10:22:23 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, May 31 2008 10:22 am
Subject: Re: Helmet saved my...
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original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
On May 31, 1:06 pm, DC1999 <[email protected]> wrote:

> [My] helmet is four years old and I'm wondering if it's
> time to get another new one. It's never been dropped or beaten up,
> except from the sun and my sweaty head.

> What do you'all think?

For a while, Bell Sports (and other manufacturers) recommended
replacing helmets every three years "for your safety" or some such
phrasing.

Then their lawyers apparently realized the problems with that. So
they switched to recommending replacing your helmet every three years
"so you can take advantage of new features and styles," or something
like that. Now they simply seem to say "replace it every three years;
call us if you have questions."

 

[Frank Krygowski]

On Jun 1, 9:14 am, DC1999 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> Frank K posted the following (partially edited) and then went on to
> say that there was no test evidence of degradation of helmets over
> time. I've seen and considered all the anti-helmet /pro-helmet
> discussion, and I choose to wear a helmet. Can anyone say that Frank
> is correct? Is there any evidence of degradation of the helmet over
> time?
>

If the helmeteers do respond, they're much more likely to give wild
guesses than to reference any sources; so I'd better give what little
factual information that's out there.

Here's a 2005 quote from a prominent pro-helmet website:

"Way back in the 1980's the Snell Foundation tested a Biker for us
that was about ten years old, and had yellowed from the sun. It still
performed essentially like a new one at that time. ... Snell doesn't
test for us any more, so you are on your own as to whether or not the
EPS foam and Lexan shell have hardened or become brittle with age. I
would guess that the EPS foam has not changed much if at all."


Snell is not likely to test old helmets. Doing so would almost
certainly generate more data showing that old helmets are just as
(minimally) protective as new helmets. And that wouldn't sell more
helmets, which is Snell's real goal.

If you haven't stored your styrofoam in the same closet as your
uncapped cans of acetone, your helmet is probably no worse at age 10
years than it was when new.

Oh - except it won't be quite as stylish. Nothing says "fashion" like
wearing _this_ year's psychedelic sculpture of a squid on your
noggin! Last year's squid sculpture just isn't cool anymore!

- Frank Krygowski

 

[[email protected]]

H*lm*t saved your life - pray to the helmet gods. Remember your head
hit the ground hard enough to crack styrofoam-- that indicates you
were saved from death or coma.


On May 30, 1:45 am, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...noggin!
>
> Flying down a steep, curvy road today, my front tire blew out just as I came
> around a turn.  (4" of bead separated from the casing; fairly new Michelin
> Pro Race 2; no recent flats so not a "tube installation" issue.)
>
> I briefly thought I could save it, but as I headed down and left into the
> oncoming lane a car was headed right in my path so I had no choice but to
> try to steer the bike to the right.  BLAM -- down I went on my right side at
> close to 40 mph.
>
> Immediate injury noticed was to my right shoulder.  Probable torn ligaments
> if not rotator cuff (ripped previously so familiar with the pain).  Road
> rash was surprisingly slight (knee, elbow, hip and shoulder -- the latter
> two protected a bit by Spandex so not visible until later).
>
> Another rider, Mike, came along and helped me.  Started to fix my flat when
> he saw the trashed tire bead.  (No pics yet.)  Called my friend Miles (of
> world famous "Miles Todd crash video" fame) to pick me up.
>
> Then Mike said, "Well, your helmet sure did its job."  I touched the outside
> shell and felt a scrape, but had no idea that I'd even hit my head, much
> less cracked the **** out of it:
>
> http://home.san.rr.com:80/billsornson/(server wouldn't allow more than
> these three pics).
>
> So now it's 8-9 hours later and other than a really messed up shoulder I
> feel pretty decent.  Sure my neck is going to be sore as hell tomorrow, and
> may end up needing surgery on the wing (time will tell), but no concussion,
> cracked skull, or hood ornament/undercarriage action, so all in all I'm
> feeling pretty fortunate.  I just wish it had been my own error instead of
> an obvious product defect (and why couldn't it have been the REAR
> tire?!?)...
>
> Beaten Up But Not Beat (Yet) Bill

 

[landotter]

On Jun 1, 1:13 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> H*lm*t saved your life - pray to the helmet gods.  Remember your head
> hit the ground hard enough to crack styrofoam--  that indicates you
> were saved from death or coma.


<roaring laughter from the peanut gallery>