helmet ventilation?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by C.J.Patten, Jul 13, 2005.

  1. C.J.Patten

    C.J.Patten Guest

    I won't get in to a helmet debate. I wear one, reasons irrelevant for this
    thread.

    My question has to do with vents.

    My current helmet is a Giro Indicator. This wasn't an expensive helmet but
    it fits well.

    When you spend 5 times as much to get something like a Giro Atmos (i gather
    they use it on the tour?) is the ventilation that much better? Would you
    notice your head staying that much cooler?

    Any other extremely vented helmets? (don't say "bare head" smart-asses)

    Thanks,
    Chris
     
    Tags:


  2. On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:58:53 -0400, "C.J.Patten"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >When you spend 5 times as much to get something like a Giro Atmos (i gather
    >they use it on the tour?) is the ventilation that much better? Would you
    >notice your head staying that much cooler?


    I don't think it's anything to do with cost (most properties of
    helmets are not, as far as I can tell - some very cheap Chinese
    helmets are Snell certified, no Bell helmet is) but there was some
    research I heard of recently.

    A headform was heated to 42C, and a fan was then blown over it for 4
    minutes. Temperature drops were 10.5C for the bare head, 9.1C for the
    best helmet, 2.5C for the worst helmet.

    So I'm sure there is a big difference in cooling effect, as you
    surmise. Finding out where on the scale between, as it were, 13% and
    76% reduction in cooling effect any one particular helmet lies, is
    likely to be problematic! It is probably a function of the size and
    number of vents, but maybe not, and of course these might have a
    consequent effect on structural integrity as well.

    It's a good question, actually - I don't know to what extent the body
    is able to compensate for the reduced cooling. As far as I understand
    it the scalp plays the major part in cooling the head, and there is
    evidence in respect of cricketers that helmet-induced heating impairs
    reactions. I think there are probably as many unknown unknowns as
    known unknowns here.


    Guy
    --
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    "Let’s have a moment of silence for all those Americans who are stuck
    in traffic on their way to the gym to ride the stationary bicycle."
    - Earl Blumenauer
     
  3. wafflycat

    wafflycat Guest

    "C.J.Patten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Any other extremely vented helmets? (don't say "bare head" smart-asses)
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Chris


    I'm currently using a Briko Twinner and that is very cool - the way it's
    designed it draws the air across the head. I also find it comfortable to
    wear.

    See

    <http://www.hardheadedsports.com/briko-bike-helmets.html>

    Cheers, helen s
     
  4. C.J.Patten

    C.J.Patten Guest

    Wow. Thanks for the link - I'd never seen Briko helmets before!
    http://www.briko.com works too.

    Chris


    "wafflycat" <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "C.J.Patten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>
    >> Any other extremely vented helmets? (don't say "bare head" smart-asses)
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Chris

    >
    > I'm currently using a Briko Twinner and that is very cool - the way it's
    > designed it draws the air across the head. I also find it comfortable to
    > wear.
    >
    > See
    >
    > <http://www.hardheadedsports.com/briko-bike-helmets.html>
    >
    > Cheers, helen s
    >
    >
     
  5. maxo

    maxo Guest

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:58:53 -0400, C.J.Patten wrote:

    > My current helmet is a Giro Indicator. This wasn't an expensive helmet but
    > it fits well.
    >
    > When you spend 5 times as much to get something like a Giro Atmos (i
    > gather they use it on the tour?) is the ventilation that much better?
    > Would you notice your head staying that much cooler?
    >
    > Any other extremely vented helmets? (don't say "bare head" smart-asses)


    Do you have a full head of hair? Are you male or a modern feeling female?
    A nice tight clipper cut will keep your hair from becoming a plastered
    follicle insulator when smooshed under styrofoam.
     
  6. Ron Hardin

    Ron Hardin Guest

    Long ago I plugged up the vents in my helmet. It just lets bugs in to get
    trapped in your hair.

    The cooling effect change isn't noticeable. The huge cooling is from sun
    shielding, and that's compared even to wearing no helmet.

    As long as the vents are plugged, wear a baseball cap under the helmet to
    get a nice visor, very handy in cold wind or rain, as well as sun.
    --
    Ron Hardin
    [email protected]

    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
     
  7. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    In article <[email protected]>,
    C.J.Patten <[email protected]> wrote:
    >I won't get in to a helmet debate. I wear one, reasons irrelevant for this
    >thread.
    >
    >My question has to do with vents.
    >
    >My current helmet is a Giro Indicator. This wasn't an expensive helmet but
    >it fits well.
    >
    >When you spend 5 times as much to get something like a Giro Atmos (i gather
    >they use it on the tour?) is the ventilation that much better? Would you
    >notice your head staying that much cooler?
    >
    >Any other extremely vented helmets? (don't say "bare head" smart-asses)
    >


    _ If you have a Giro shaped head, then I think that if you go one
    level down to the Pneumo you get a very light, very well
    ventilated helmet. Plus, you can get them on sale right now.
    IMHO, the big difference between cheap and $$$ is ventilation
    and weight.

    _ Booker C. Bense



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  8. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    In article <[email protected]>,
    (PeteCresswell) <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Per Ron Hardin:
    >>The cooling effect change isn't noticeable. The huge cooling is from sun
    >>shielding, and that's compared even to wearing no helmet.
    >>
    >>As long as the vents are plugged, wear a baseball cap under the helmet to
    >>get a nice visor, very handy in cold wind or rain, as well as sun.

    >
    >Where/what time of year are you riding?
    >


    _ Either Ron is smoking crack or he still using his 1978 MSR
    climbing helmet.

    I have both the Giro Zen and Pneumo, both are vast improvements
    in ventilation over early Giro's, but the Pneumo is better than
    the Zen in hot weather. This might just be due to the fact that
    one is white while the other is dark grey. The other great
    benefit of the Pneumo is that it pulls your hair up into ridges.
    You look like an extra from Star Trek at century rest stops.

    _ Booker C. Bense

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  9. Ron Hardin

    Ron Hardin Guest

    (PeteCresswell) wrote:
    >
    > Per Ron Hardin:
    > >The cooling effect change isn't noticeable. The huge cooling is from sun
    > >shielding, and that's compared even to wearing no helmet.
    > >
    > >As long as the vents are plugged, wear a baseball cap under the helmet to
    > >get a nice visor, very handy in cold wind or rain, as well as sun.

    >
    > Where/what time of year are you riding?
    >
    > I'm in Southeastern Pennsylvania (USA) and in July/August I wind up taking the
    > thing off for 15-20 minutes at a time just because it feels soooooooo good to
    > have the cool wind in my hair instead of sweat running down my glasses and
    > feeling like my brains are gonna poach like an egg.


    Ohio, all year, 8,000 miles a year.

    It's a 1975 Bell mushroom helmet, a pleasant sun-reflecting white with rigid
    white styrofoam insulation, so it takes off all the radiative solar heat. That's
    a huge benefit. Riding without it is much hotter, very noticeable.

    You have lots of sweating skin elsewhere and don't need the scalp contribution.

    If sweat on your glasses is a big deal, try the Hardin patented solution, a
    maxipad for a forehead pad in the helmet (or in my case, inside the baseball
    cap). They've spent millions and millions of dollars to get these things to
    work, and they do.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it was the result of the space program, like velcro.
    --
    Ron Hardin
    [email protected]

    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
     
  10. C.J.Patten

    C.J.Patten Guest

    "Booker C. Bense"
    <[email protected]ac.stanford.edu>
    wrote in message news:[email protected]

    > _ If you have a Giro shaped head, then I think that if you go one
    > level down to the Pneumo you get a very light, very well
    > ventilated helmet. Plus, you can get them on sale right now.
    > IMHO, the big difference between cheap and $$$ is ventilation
    > and weight.


    It seems I do have a Giro head. :) This one fits perfectly.

    I agree with you on the $$$ issue. Strictly based on observation, the
    cheapest helmets have rudimentary vents, the most expensive are basically
    ALL vent with a bit of helmet between. Clearly, we're paying for "the
    benefit" not the actual materials and labour that go into the high end
    helmets.

    :)
     
  11. C.J.Patten

    C.J.Patten Guest

    "(PeteCresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Per Ron Hardin:
    >>t's a 1975 Bell mushroom helmet, a pleasant sun-reflecting white with
    >>rigid
    >>white styrofoam insulation, so it takes off all the radiative solar heat.
    >>That's
    >>a huge benefit. Riding without it is much hotter, very noticeable.

    >
    > Now you've got me thinking it's the color. Mine's a dark-ish grey.
    > Maybe a little strategically-applied spray paint...



    Better yet, get some aluminum foil. It's easy to mold and with a bit of 3M
    spray tack, you can stick it to the helmet.

    An added plus: aliens won't be able to read your thoughts anymore.

    Chris - firmly tongue in cheek
     
  12. gds

    gds Guest

    Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
    >> It's a good question, actually - I don't know to what extent the body

    > is able to compensate for the reduced cooling. As far as I understand
    > it the scalp plays the major part in cooling the head, and there is
    > evidence in respect of cricketers that helmet-induced heating impairs
    > reactions. I think there are probably as many unknown unknowns as
    > known unknowns here.
    >

    There is a lot of data on the opposite side. That is by keeping the
    head warm (via a hat)there is a large positive effect on staying warm.
    In most cold weather ative sports competitors seem to worry most about
    losing heat from the head, hands, and feet. And as a result if those
    areas are covered it seems that they can use relativley light clothing
    (sans a big wind chill effect) everywhere else as long as activity
    level stays high.

    So, I would think that this can be extrapolated to guessing that in
    hot weather that if the head isn't allowed to cool that overall body
    temp may rise as a result.
     
  13. Per Ron Hardin:
    >The cooling effect change isn't noticeable. The huge cooling is from sun
    >shielding, and that's compared even to wearing no helmet.
    >
    >As long as the vents are plugged, wear a baseball cap under the helmet to
    >get a nice visor, very handy in cold wind or rain, as well as sun.


    Where/what time of year are you riding?

    I'm in Southeastern Pennsylvania (USA) and in July/August I wind up taking the
    thing off for 15-20 minutes at a time just because it feels soooooooo good to
    have the cool wind in my hair instead of sweat running down my glasses and
    feeling like my brains are gonna poach like an egg.

    Giro Zen.

    Somewhere on the web, there's an anti-helmet site whose argument is based in
    part on injury reduction vs reduced health benefits from fewer people riding
    after some sort of manditory helmet law was passed in Australia.

    I'm mostly a helmet zealot, but I can also see his side of the argument.


    --
    PeteCresswell
     
  14. Nick Payne

    Nick Payne Guest

    Someone at RMIT published research on this in Bicycling Australia a couple
    of years back. Can't remember the exact details, but I think they stuck
    temperature sensors in/on a headform, heated it, then blew air across and
    measured the rate of cooling with various helmets (and also with no helmet
    as a comparison). There was no correlation between price and and how well
    the helmet allowed cooling to take place. Some of the cheap helmets with
    what appeared to be poor ventilation were near the top of the list and some
    of the expensive ones which were mostly slots were near the bottom. And the
    best of the helmets allowed cooling as rapidly as a bare head.

    Nick

    "C.J.Patten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I won't get in to a helmet debate. I wear one, reasons irrelevant for this
    >thread.
    >
    > My question has to do with vents.
    >
    > My current helmet is a Giro Indicator. This wasn't an expensive helmet but
    > it fits well.
    >
    > When you spend 5 times as much to get something like a Giro Atmos (i
    > gather they use it on the tour?) is the ventilation that much better?
    > Would you notice your head staying that much cooler?
     
  15. C.J.Patten

    C.J.Patten Guest

    Well heck, that's a tease! I gotta find that study!
    Thanks for that though... good to know.


    "Nick Payne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Someone at RMIT published research on this in Bicycling Australia a couple
    > of years back. Can't remember the exact details, but I think they stuck
    > temperature sensors in/on a headform, heated it, then blew air across and
    > measured the rate of cooling with various helmets (and also with no helmet
    > as a comparison). There was no correlation between price and and how well
    > the helmet allowed cooling to take place. Some of the cheap helmets with
    > what appeared to be poor ventilation were near the top of the list and
    > some of the expensive ones which were mostly slots were near the bottom.
    > And the best of the helmets allowed cooling as rapidly as a bare head.
    >
    > Nick
    >
    > "C.J.Patten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>I won't get in to a helmet debate. I wear one, reasons irrelevant for this
    >>thread.
    >>
    >> My question has to do with vents.
    >>
    >> My current helmet is a Giro Indicator. This wasn't an expensive helmet
    >> but it fits well.
    >>
    >> When you spend 5 times as much to get something like a Giro Atmos (i
    >> gather they use it on the tour?) is the ventilation that much better?
    >> Would you notice your head staying that much cooler?

    >
    >
     
  16. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:58:53 -0400, "C.J.Patten"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >My question has to do with vents.
    >
    >My current helmet is a Giro Indicator. This wasn't an expensive helmet but
    >it fits well.
    >
    >When you spend 5 times as much to get something like a Giro Atmos (i gather
    >they use it on the tour?) is the ventilation that much better? Would you
    >notice your head staying that much cooler?


    The only benchmark that I consider important in this regard is "Do I
    have enough venilation with the helmet I have now?" If the answer is
    "yes", then in my opinion, no further expenditure is worthwhile.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  17. Per Ron Hardin:
    >t's a 1975 Bell mushroom helmet, a pleasant sun-reflecting white with rigid
    >white styrofoam insulation, so it takes off all the radiative solar heat. That's
    >a huge benefit. Riding without it is much hotter, very noticeable.


    Now you've got me thinking it's the color. Mine's a dark-ish grey.
    Maybe a little strategically-applied spray paint...
    --
    PeteCresswell
     
  18. On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:42:19 -0400, "C.J.Patten"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"(PeteCresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> Per Ron Hardin:
    >>>t's a 1975 Bell mushroom helmet, a pleasant sun-reflecting white with
    >>>rigid
    >>>white styrofoam insulation, so it takes off all the radiative solar heat.
    >>>That's
    >>>a huge benefit. Riding without it is much hotter, very noticeable.

    >>
    >> Now you've got me thinking it's the color. Mine's a dark-ish grey.
    >> Maybe a little strategically-applied spray paint...

    >
    >
    >Better yet, get some aluminum foil. It's easy to mold and with a bit of 3M
    >spray tack, you can stick it to the helmet.
    >
    >An added plus: aliens won't be able to read your thoughts anymore.
    >
    >Chris - firmly tongue in cheek


    Dear Chris,

    Actually, the thin metal domes amplify the weak signal
    sufficiently to be received by our instruments at a muc
    greater distance and allow us in turn to reach and control a
    much wider audience.

    Kang & Kodos
     
  19. Per C.J.Patten:
    >that's a tease!


    Amen.
    --
    PeteCresswell
     
  20. Booker C. Bense wrote:

    > IMHO, the big difference between cheap and $$$ is ventilation
    > and weight.


    Don't forget protection.

    If you pay $130 for a helmet, it's guaranteed to keep a decapitated
    head under 300 gees in a 14.01 mph impact.

    Whereas if you pay $15 for a helmet, that decapitated head may not hit
    300 gees until, oh, 15 or 16 mph.

    OK, it's not a big difference. And nobody will ever tell you the exact
    numbers. But the difference is there. The more you pay, the less
    protection you get.

    - Frank Krygowski
     
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