Help!!

Donovan Rebbechi said:

David said:

Quoted message said:

(4) whereas the best you could do is propose that some undefined
yardstick exists. You did not provide any source for your competing
definition. You then proposed the existence of a hypothetical
case of someone who trains hard and yet does not perform.

That is the whole issue - you do not include performance, achievement,
talent, etc in your definition of 'athlete' - that is preposterous

No, "the whole issue" is that the thing that you call "my definition"

(1) is actually the definition of the Merriam Webster dictionary, not "my"
definition,

(2) the history of the term, which I again support with referenceable sources,
supports a literal reading of this definition.

Not so Donovan:

athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key
(thlt)
n.

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength,
agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or
sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Charles said:

Quoted message said:

(1) is actually the definition of the Merriam Webster dictionary, not "my"
definition,

(2) the history of the term, which I again support with referenceable
sources, supports a literal reading of this definition.

Not so Donovan:

athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key
(thlt)
n.

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength,
agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or
sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth

As I pointed out, the definition I cited is from another source. The
origin is from Latin athleta, from Greek athlEtEs, from
athlein to contend for a prize, from athlon prize, contest

In other words, the definition you cite refers to a general athletic
stereotype (someone who "looks like an athlete"😉, whereas the definition I
cite is more consistent with the origin of the term.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Charles said:

Quoted message said:

(1) is actually the definition of the Merriam Webster dictionary, not "my"
definition,

(2) the history of the term, which I again support with referenceable
sources, supports a literal reading of this definition.

Not so Donovan:

athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key
(thlt)
n.

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength,
agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or
sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth

As I pointed out, the definition I cited is from another source. The
origin is from Latin athleta, from Greek athlEtEs, from
athlein to contend for a prize, from athlon prize, contest

In other words, the definition you cite refers to a general athletic
stereotype (someone who "looks like an athlete"😉, whereas the definition I
cite is more consistent with the origin of the term.

You are now relying on semantics Donovan! ;o)

"Spungo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Spungo said:

> (4) whereas the best you could do is propose that some undefined
> yardstick exists.

Is that unreasonable? While technically, any human being trained to
compete
in any sport, whether it be football or lawn darts, could technically

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

called an "athlete", the vast majority of people have higher standards
for
who they consider "athletes".

There is a general notion of "athlete" which is based on qualities that
develop with training for athletic contests. In other words, there does
exist an athletic stereotype. The stereotype does not define the term
though.

Quoted message said:

A 700 pound guy tossing some darts in his backyard while sitting on his
lazy-boy recliner doesn't cut it as an "athlete" in my mind.

I agree, but the grounds for my view are different -- I would argue
that his training is not physically strenuous, whereas the word

"athlete"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

originally refered to and continues to refer to demanding activities.

If the 700lb guy ran 80 miles a week, I'd call him an athlete. But 700lb
guys
don't run 80 miles in a week (because they can't).

Fair enough, I guess. I do consider really fat football players athletes

so

Quoted message said:

I suppose your example works.

Not so if they are in the NFL , they would be athletes by any definition.
This is an elite group who have certainly distinguished themselves by any
measure

Quoted message said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Spungo said:

A 700 pound guy tossing some darts in his backyard while sitting on his
lazy-boy recliner doesn't cut it as an "athlete" in my mind.

I agree, but the grounds for my view are different -- I would argue
that his training is not physically strenuous, whereas the word "athlete"
originally refered to and continues to refer to demanding activities.

There's also common usage. I've never heard darts referred to as an
athletic competition before. In point of fact, I mostly hear of darts
as a bar game, where bar games are typically done by people who hang out
at bars rather than behaving like athletes (i.e., people who watch their
diets and spend their spare time exercising.)

Quoted message said:

If the 700lb guy ran 80 miles a week, I'd call him an athlete. But 700lb guys
don't run 80 miles in a week (because they can't).

I'd wager that many athletes can't run 80 miles in a week [without
injuring something]. Powerlifters, for example, aren't known for
fleetness of foot.

Dally

Charles said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

David said:

>(4) whereas the best you could do is propose that some undefined
>yardstick exists. You did not provide any source for your competing
>definition. You then proposed the existence of a hypothetical
>case of someone who trains hard and yet does not perform.

That is the whole issue - you do not include performance, achievement,
talent, etc in your definition of 'athlete' - that is preposterous

No, "the whole issue" is that the thing that you call "my definition"

(1) is actually the definition of the Merriam Webster dictionary, not "my"
definition,

(2) the history of the term, which I again support with referenceable sources,
supports a literal reading of this definition.

Not so Donovan:

athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key
(thlt)
n.

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength,
agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or
sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

Thank you. I have acquired the traits, specifically strength, agility
and endurance, necessary for competing in triathlons and performed those
same traits in a competitive context.

I appreciate your support.

Dally

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 20:10:28 -0400, Dally <[email hidden]> wrote:
....

Quoted message said:

Thank you. I have acquired the traits, specifically strength, agility
and endurance, necessary for competing in triathlons and performed those
same traits in a competitive context.

I appreciate your support.

Dally

good. thread closed.
....thehick

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Charles said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

On 2005-08-01, David <[email hidden]> wrote:

>>(4) whereas the best you could do is propose that some undefined
>>yardstick exists. You did not provide any source for your competing
>>definition. You then proposed the existence of a hypothetical
>>case of someone who trains hard and yet does not perform.
>
>That is the whole issue - you do not include performance, achievement,
>talent, etc in your definition of 'athlete' - that is preposterous

No, "the whole issue" is that the thing that you call "my definition"

(1) is actually the definition of the Merriam Webster dictionary, not

"my"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

definition,

(2) the history of the term, which I again support with referenceable

sources,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

supports a literal reading of this definition.

Not so Donovan:

athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key
(thlt)
n.

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength,
agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or
sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

Thank you. I have acquired the traits, specifically strength, agility
and endurance, necessary for competing in triathlons and performed those
same traits in a competitive context.

I appreciate your support.

Dally

Of course it is still your opinion - until you validate that with actual
accomplishments that might put you in an elite group - they remain just
that - your opinion

David said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Fair enough, I guess. I do consider really fat football players athletes
so I suppose your example works.

Not so if they are in the NFL , they would be athletes by any definition.
This is an elite group who have certainly distinguished themselves by any
measure

Some of them are quite fat, so they haven't distinguished themselves in a good
way by that measure. For that matter, I don't think they'd be able to run at
a decent speed for very long either. And I doubt they're terribly bothered by
this. Most elite level athletes tend to *specialise* which means they are
willing to trade doing well on any test of fitness, for doing that extra bit
better on their chosen event.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

David said:

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Charles said:

athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key
(thlt)
n.

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength,
agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or
sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

Thank you. I have acquired the traits, specifically strength, agility
and endurance, necessary for competing in triathlons and performed those
same traits in a competitive context.

I appreciate your support.

Dally

Of course it is still your opinion - until you validate that with actual
accomplishments that might put you in an elite group - they remain just
that - your opinion

No, you're the one with an opinion. I'm the one with an objective
definition. You're entitled to your opinions about my athletic status.
You're just wrong.

Dally

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Spungo said:

Quoted message said:

(4) whereas the best you could do is propose that some undefined
yardstick exists.

Is that unreasonable? While technically, any human being trained to compete
in any sport, whether it be football or lawn darts, could technically be
called an "athlete", the vast majority of people have higher standards for
who they consider "athletes".

There is a general notion of "athlete" which is based on qualities that
develop with training for athletic contests. In other words, there does
exist an athletic stereotype. The stereotype does not define the term
though.

Quoted message said:

A 700 pound guy tossing some darts in his backyard while sitting on his
lazy-boy recliner doesn't cut it as an "athlete" in my mind.

I agree, but the grounds for my view are different -- I would argue
that his training is not physically strenuous, whereas the word "athlete"
originally refered to and continues to refer to demanding activities.

If the 700lb guy ran 80 miles a week, I'd call him an athlete. But 700lb guys
don't run 80 miles in a week (because they can't).

Cheers,

This is probably devolving to where the "powerlifter" vs "competitive
powerlifter" discussion used to go.

--
Is this thing on?

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:49:03 +0100, Charles <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Not so Donovan:

athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key
(thlt)
n.

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength,
agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or
sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

He got you there Donovan. There's athletes, and there's competitive
athletes. One need not compete to be an athlete.

TBR
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

In article <[email hidden]>,

David said:

Donovan and Dally are driving me away. I am hanging on by a thread. Someone
please help me!!

Certainly!

*snip*

--
Jim Seymour | "It is wrong always, everywhere and
WARNING: The "From:" address is a | for everyone to believe anything upon
spam trap. DON'T USE IT! Use: | insufficient evidence."
[email hidden] | - W. K. Clifford, ca. 1876

Runs With Knives said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

David said:

Donovan and Dally are driving me away. I am hanging on by a thread. Someone
please help me!!

Certainly!

*snip*

LOL. I have to admit, my first instinct was to stomp on his fingers.

Dally

"Runs With Knives" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

David said:

Donovan and Dally are driving me away. I am hanging on by a thread.

Someone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

please help me!!

Certainly!

*snip*

--

Haha! (ruefully)

Quoted message said:

Jim Seymour | "It is wrong always, everywhere and
WARNING: The "From:" address is a | for everyone to believe anything

upon

Quoted message said:

spam trap. DON'T USE IT! Use: | insufficient evidence."
[email hidden] | - W. K. Clifford, ca.

1876

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 02:42:27 -0000, [email hidden] (Runs With Knives)

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

David said:

Donovan and Dally are driving me away. I am hanging on by a thread. Someone
please help me!!

Certainly!

*snip*

What did you do Jim, cut off your [censored]? ;o)

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

David said:

Donovan and Dally are driving me away. I am hanging on by a thread.

Someone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

please help me!!

Try not answering their posts. :-)

It takes two to continue a flame war!
--
Om.

I can't do that - you know it's like walking away from a fight.

Quoted message said:

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack

Nicholson

"The Bill Rodgers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:49:03 +0100, Charles <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Not so Donovan:

athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key
(thlt)
n.

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength,
agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or
sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

He got you there Donovan. There's athletes, and there's competitive
athletes. One need not compete to be an athlete.

TBR

Good point Bill - you are smarter than the average lefty

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Runs With Knives said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

David said:

Donovan and Dally are driving me away. I am hanging on by a thread.

Someone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

please help me!!

Certainly!

*snip*

LOL. I have to admit, my first instinct was to stomp on his fingers.

Dally

Never be guided by your first instinct. I've always said that

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:21:59 GMT, "David" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Runs With Knives said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"David" <[email hidden]> writes:

>Donovan and Dally are driving me away. I am hanging on by a thread.

Someone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>please help me!!

Certainly!

*snip*

LOL. I have to admit, my first instinct was to stomp on his fingers.

Dally

Never be guided by your first instinct. I've always said that

I've never heard you say it before! ;o)