Help Circus Cyclists Jailed for Cycling w/o a License



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"Kevan Smith" <[email protected]/\/\> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 27 May 2003 20:07:06 GMT, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> from
AT&T
> Broadband wrote:
>
> >> Canada, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Ireland, New
> >Zealand,
> >> Denmark, Finland, .....
> >>
> >> I'm sure there are others I don't have knowledge of.
> >
> >Why are they better?
>
> More freedom. More democratic governments. More humane policies.

Some examples?

Dashii
 
Well, the grass is always greener on the other side... So I'll sit here and wait for all of this
fertilizer that's spread around to make the grass grow...
:)

NS
 
On Wed, 28 May 2003 01:23:51 GMT, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> from AT&T Broadband wrote:

>
>"Kevan Smith" <[email protected]/\/\> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 27 May 2003 20:07:06 GMT, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> from
>AT&T
>> Broadband wrote:
>>
>> >> Canada, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Ireland, New
>> >Zealand,
>> >> Denmark, Finland, .....
>> >>
>> >> I'm sure there are others I don't have knowledge of.
>> >
>> >Why are they better?
>>
>> More freedom. More democratic governments. More humane policies.
>
>Some examples?

Canada, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Ireland, New Zealand, Denmark, Finland ......
--
http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace I am NOT a nut....
10:27:38 PM 27 May 2003
 
Kevan Smith wrote:

> On Tue, 27 May 2003 20:07:06 GMT, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> from AT&T Broadband wrote:
>
> >> Canada, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Ireland, New
> >Zealand,
> >> Denmark, Finland, .....
> >>
> >> I'm sure there are others I don't have knowledge of.
> >
> >Why are they better?
>
> More freedom. More democratic governments. More humane policies.

Thank you. It gets tiring pointing out the obvious.

America's government is bought and paid for.

This is barely a democracy.

And now the patriot act (and especially it's followup) is burying our basic "American" freedoms.

You can not begin to say that America has the best system in the world.

--
**********************************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO http://www.CycleTourist.com Tolerance is recognizing that other people
have different ideals and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
***********************************************************
 
Dashi Toshii wrote:

> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]/\/\> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Tue, 27 May 2003 20:07:06 GMT, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> from
> AT&T
> > Broadband wrote:
> >
> > >> Canada, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Ireland, New
> > >Zealand,
> > >> Denmark, Finland, .....
> > >>
> > >> I'm sure there are others I don't have knowledge of.
> > >
> > >Why are they better?
> >
> > More freedom. More democratic governments. More humane policies.
>
> Some examples?

Why don't you explain your claim that America's democracy is somehow superior to all others?

--
**********************************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO http://www.CycleTourist.com Tolerance is recognizing that other people
have different ideals and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
***********************************************************
 
"Edward Dike, III" wrote:

> "Chuck Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> | "Edward Dike, III" wrote:
> |
> | > "Chuck Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> | > | Dashi Toshii wrote:
> | > |
> | > | > "Mitch Haley" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> | > | > > "NS>" wrote:
> | > | > > >
> | > | > > > Thanks for telling me what I am supposed to believe.... That's
> what
> | > | > > > republicans do... Republicanism is based on fear and
> misinformation.
> | > | > >
> | > | > > You say that as if you think the Democratic Party is any
> different.
> | > | > >
> | > | > > Mitch
> | > | >
> | > | > They are all self-promoting, selfish SOB's.
> | > | >
> | > | > Unfortunately there isn't a better political system in the world
> right
> | > now.
> | > |
> | > | How so?
> | > |
> | > | Actually, there ARE many working democracies in the rest of the
> world -
> | > | democracies that work far better than our corporate owned system -
> | > democracies
> | > | that put "American ideals" to shame. The US has no monopoly on the
> | > "better
> | > | political system in the world" - - - not by a long shot.
> | > |
> | >
> | > Dashi Toshii nailed it: "....Unfortunately there isn't a better
> political
> | > system in the world right now..."
> | >
> | > Regarding : "...there ARE many working democracies in the rest of the world - democracies that
> | > work far better..."
> | >
> | > Perhaps you will reveal their names, and explain why you are not there, basking in liberty,
> | > and prosperity?
> |
> | That's the most roundabout "love it or leave it" I've ever heard.
> |

> No, just curious....

Then why add the "why aren't you there?" part? What was the purpose of that?

> I'd like to here of a freer, more prosperous, and more desirable place to
live.
> Given the level of immigration into this country, I suspect others might as
well.

Ahhh, but who is immigrating into this country? Not people from freer, more respectable countries.

> Good dodge of an answer, however.

You mean, Ed successfully topples another straw man? - - - Nice try, Ed.

I did reveal their names.

As to why "I'm not there ..... blah blah blah;" that sounds a lot like love it or leave it, to me,
wouldn't you say?

Still, I'll play your game.

My experiences in Ireland (for one) suggest to me that it has a FAR superior government - that also
happens to be a democracy.

It's tough though; my roots - family - and life are pretty tightly woven into the US, so it is hard
to imagine leaving all that behind. If I can convince enough of my family to join me and can handle
the mechanics (getting a job, for one), I'd be glad to emigrate.

I'm also curious to see how the next couple of "elections" go.

--
**********************************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO http://www.CycleTourist.com Tolerance is recognizing that other people
have different ideals and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
***********************************************************
 
"Kevan Smith" <[email protected]/\/\> wrote

> >>
> >> More freedom. More democratic governments. More humane policies.
> >
> >Some examples?
>
> Canada, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Ireland, New
Zealand,
> Denmark, Finland ......

Having spent a few years in Germany, the terms 'freer', 'more democratic', 'more humane' can be
quite subjective.

If you toe the conformity line, you will get along. If not....well, you might not.

A small example. No car washing or grass cutting on Sunday. Not a big thing. Quite trivial in fact.
But it IS law. Enforcement mainly depends on what your neighbors tolerate.

Evidently, free, humane, and democratic are synonyms for pseudosocialism. Sure the government
'provides' more services. But the government produces no money of its own to pay for these. It has
to come from the populace in the form of taxes.

As in the ongoing 'discussion' with my wife....health care for example in Europe (England, Germany,
etc) is not 'free'. You just pay a different entity. And it is open for debate as to which is better
at managing that money...government, or private companies.

Pete Finland? A suicide rate only bested by countries of the former Soviet Union.
 
"Stephen Harding" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Chuck Anderson wrote:
>
> > Dashi Toshii wrote:
> >
> > > "Chuck Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > Dashi Toshii wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > "Mitch Haley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > > "NS>" wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for telling me what I am supposed to believe....
That's what
> > > > > > > republicans do... Republicanism is based on fear and
misinformation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You say that as if you think the Democratic Party is any
different.
> > > > >
> > > > > They are all self-promoting, selfish SOB's.
> > > > >
> > > > > Unfortunately there isn't a better political system in the world
right
> > > now.
> > > >
> > > > How so?
> > > >
> > > > Actually, there ARE many working democracies in the rest of the
world -
> > > > democracies that work far better than our corporate owned system -
democracies
> > > > that put "American ideals" to shame. The US has no monopoly on the
"better
> > > > political system in the world" - - - not by a long shot.
> > >
> > > Which ones are you thinking of?
> >
> > Canada, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Ireland, New
Zealand,
> > Denmark, Finland, .....
> >
> > I'm sure there are others I don't have knowledge of.
>
> Ahhh, right! Another of the "Europe does it best" crowd.
>
> And I suppose these countries "do democracy" right because they
are...somehow
> non-corporate?
>
> Europe has a notorious "top down" leadership model. Europe has a
functioning
> democracy certainly, but to call it superior to the American form is
bunk!
>
> It's simply a different model.
>

No they are much better models, with a much greater orientation towards people rather than money.
However as you suggest they are also under corporate reigns. As such they face many of the same
problems we do, and with the rise in free trade and multinationals they are coming closer and closer
to the pure ******** that is over here. It is indeed very hard to find a culture on this planet that
has not been seized by corporate monoculture either in terms of succession as in most western
countries or exploitation as in the third world countries.
 
Pete wrote:

> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]/\/\> wrote
>
> > >> More freedom. More democratic governments. More humane policies.
> > >
> > >Some examples?
> >
> > Canada, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Ireland, New
> Zealand, Denmark, Finland ......
>
> Having spent a few years in Germany, the terms 'freer', 'more democratic', 'more humane' can be
> quite subjective.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

> If you toe the conformity line, you will get along. If not....well, you might not.

But that is the culture, not the system of government.

> A small example. No car washing or grass cutting on Sunday.

> Not a big thing. Quite trivial in fact. But it IS law. Enforcement mainly depends on what your
> neighbors tolerate.

And it was a democratic decision to make this a law.

> Finland? A suicide rate only bested by countries of the former Soviet Union.

Which means that a country's system of government does not determine its suicide rate.
(Finland? USSR?).

That has more to do with being substantially above the arctic circle - sunlight deprivation - NOT
the system of government.

--
**********************************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO http://www.CycleTourist.com Tolerance is recognizing that other people
have different ideals and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
***********************************************************
 
"Stephen Harding" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Europe has a notorious "top down" leadership model. Europe has a
functioning
> democracy certainly, but to call it superior to the American form is
bunk!
>

U.S. "AUTHORITY" IN IRAQ CONTINUES TO UNRAVEL

The U.S. conquest of Iraq is not going according to plan.

Developments confirm that the situation is unraveling due to growing popular anger and resistance.

On May 15, the Pentagon announced that no more U.S. troops will be headed for home. All troop
departures have been canceled. And tens of thousands of additional troops are on the way to Iraq.
More soldiers will be moved into policing city streets to confront an increasingly desperate
population.

Gen. Jay Garner and his entire U.S. advance team were unceremoniously fired. Garner's assignment --
setting up a civil administration -- never got off the ground. His replacement, L. Paul Bremer III,
is described as a counter-terrorism expert who belongs to the Council on Foreign Relations and once
headed Kissinger Associates -- both connected to Rockefeller oil money.

The U.S.-appointed Iraqi Interim Government that Garner promised to install before the end of
May was put on hold. The "by U.S. invitation only" National Assembly never made it off the
drawing board.

Thousands of Iraqis marched in Baghdad on May 19 in the largest protest yet against U.S. occupation.
To demonstrate unity between Sunni and Shiite Moslems, marchers gathered outside a Sunni Mosque and
moved en masse across the city to a Shiite shrine.

Their banners and chants repeated the theme of unity and demanded: "No to occupation," "No to
injustice," "No to the foreign administration" -- and, again and again, "No, no, no USA!"

Organizers armed with AK-47 assault rifles served as security for the march, according to May 19
Associated Press reports.

The corporate media covered the demonstration, but attempted to downplay the numbers and marginalize
the significance of the protest -- the same way they have done with anti-war demonstrations in the
United States.

The AP and New York Times reported that 10,000 people participated. Media in the Arab world, such as
Al Jazeera and others, reported that more than 50,000 participated.

The situation in Iraq today

A quick review of news in the corporate media reveals that the entire situation in Iraq is wildly
out of control.

There's still no potable drinking water in Baghdad and Basra, the largest cities of Iraq. In Basra,
contaminated water has caused an outbreak of cholera, a deadly disease. Summer is just beginning.
Daily temperatures rising above 100 degrees will rapidly spread disease.

There is still no electricity in most major cities. U.S. military installations have their own
generators. But most Iraqis have no lights, refrigeration, fans or water pumps.

The phone system is destroyed. This means no communications, except for a handful of U.S.
collaborators who receive the most popular "perk" or status symbol: a satellite phone.

There is almost no fuel. The lines to buy gas for cars, or fuel to cook or boil drinking water, are
miles long. Public transportation is not running.

There is no functioning health care system. Hospitals are still totally overwhelmed with thousands
of people of all ages who were injured during the war. Exacerbating the health catastrophe is the
fact that supplies have been looted, there is no program to re-supply them, and doctors and
emergency personnel are exhausted and not getting paid.

Many schools are bombed and gutted. U.S. military units are encamped in others. The streets are so
dangerous that many parents won't allow their children to walk to school.

There has been no organized food distribution since the war began. For years, due to U.S.-led
sanctions, 75 percent to 80 percent of Iraqis have been almost totally dependent on the food
distribution system organized by the Iraqi government.

Today, after the war, malnutrition is already double what it was a year ago under sanctions.

With the economy shut down, there are few jobs.

The U.S. government has totally failed to meet the most basic needs of the Iraqi people, after
declaring it was in full control of the situation.

So what is the U.S. solution? Blame the people themselves.

L. Paul Bremer III floated the idea of a new policy to shoot looters--desperate people trying to
find something to sell in order to feed their families.

Of course Bremer isn't interested in shooting the real looters in Iraq today. Phillip T. Carroll,
the former CEO of Shell Oil Corporation who is now heading the Advisory Committee to the Iraq Oil
Industry, is not on the hit list. Nor is top U.S. Treasury official Peter McPherson, who is now
heading the Iraqi National Bank. The role of these two corporate criminals is to loot the oil
industry and the national bank.

Smashing the old state

There is no functioning Iraqi state apparatus of any kind.

The U.S. military command allowed and encouraged the conscious destruction of every functioning
government ministry except the oil ministry. For weeks, small-scale looting was encouraged as a
cover to divert attention from the grand theft of Iraq's resources.

In this chaotic atmosphere basic democratic rights or laws don't exist. The U.S. military is the
absolute law. Check points, searches and arrests are totally arbitrary. Those arrested are not
informed of the charges or the evidence and their families are not notified. An unknown number of
Iraqis, believed to be in the thousands, are still being held.

In an orchestrated effort to divert the angry mood away from the Pentagon occupation, the U.S. is
encouraging vengeance against former Baathist Party officials and outright assassinations. The U.S.
is offering big rewards to encourage a hunt for thousands of officials from the past Baathist
government.

Depleted uranium coverup

The Pentagon used 1,000 tons of radioactive depleted uranium rounds--three times the amount used
during the first Gulf War. This time most of those rounds were fired in urban centers, not on desert
battlefields.

International environmental and health organizations have raised concern that the destruction of the
Iraq Ministry of Health may be part of an effort to cover up what had become an international issue:
the devastating impact of DU weapons from the first Gulf War on the health of Iraqi civilians.

Iraqi health officials had compiled extensive records and very precise statistics on every form of
health problem. Studies included information on neighborhoods that were hardest hit. Other studies
followed the births of disabled children whose parents served in the military.

Now being able to measure the increase in cancers, health problems and birth defects is far more
difficult.

And in addition to the crisis created by DU rounds, thousands of bright yellow unexploded cluster
bombs and other munitions litter the entire country.

Free trade at gunpoint

There is enormous anger throughout the Arab world that the U.S. and British occupation troops made
no effort to protect Iraqi culture. The looting of the Baghdad Museum was not an isolated incident.
Hundreds of small museums, archeological sites and works of art are being systematically looted.

Returning U.S. journalists and soldiers are in on the heist. They come back to this country with
priceless art objects, directly stolen or purchased on the cheap at thriving underground markets.

The burning of the National Archives may be even a greater loss than the Bagh dad Museum. Countless
ancient texts dating back many hundreds of years are lost to all humanity.

Yet despite the gutting of the culture and inability of the U.S. to provide any of the most basic
services needed for a functioning society, President George W. Bush has announced plans for a
"Middle East Free Trade Agreement."

This announcement confirms once again that what makes the world safe for McDonald's hamburgers is
the jet bombers made by McDonnell Douglas. U.S. corporate globalization is enforced through its
military domination.

The Middle East Free Trade Agreement is an effort to economically integrate the U.S.-financed state
of Israel into the Arab world. It won't give Iraq or any Arab countries access to U.S. markets. It
will only further impose structural adjustment policies on the entire region.

U.S. demands mandate for occupation

The Bush administration introduced a resolution in the United Nations Security Council on May 8.
It's entitled, "To Assist the People of Iraq." This U.S.-led resolution supposedly would provide
emergency humanitarian assistance to Iraq--after 13 years of U.S.-led sanctions starved the
population.

In fact, the resolution is a demand that the UN legitimize the criminal war against Iraq and
authorize the present occupation. It's an effort to get international recognition for absolute
U.S./British control--called The Authority--over Iraq.

The resolution was formally introduced by the United States, Britain and Spain. But the United
States, as the kingpin military and imperial power in the formation of this Authority, would get the
bulk of wealth and control.

The Authority would have total control over all Iraqi funds, including those frozen for 13 years;
the billions of dollars in the Oil For Food fund that was withheld for years; and all future profits
from the sale of Iraqi oil.

This Authority would control all contracts, reconstruction and administration until a government
that it approves of is established.

In return the Authority would allow UN agencies to hand out food and humanitarian aid.

In other words, it is a replay of the British Mandate over Iraq and Palestine of 80 years ago. Now
it is a U.S./British Mandate.

This is colonialism in its rawest form. It is a colonial mandate that is a complete violation of
national sovereignty.

Demand reparations and no occupation!

This is only the latest phase in a long U.S./British war against Iraq. For more than 100
years--through wars, invasions and outright colonialism--the aim has been the same. It is an
imperialist scheme to control the oil and the resources of the entire region.

At every stage the imperialist forces had far superior weapons. Yet time and again they have been
pushed back by people's movements that made past colonial policies impossible to carry out.

U.S. occupation will become more hated every day by a people who have long experience of resisting
colonial schemes. It will be resisted precisely because the U.S. and British imperialists have no
solutions for the people.

Instead of the jubilation and the welcoming throngs that U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
promised, U.S. troops now face angry, hungry people.

Every day soldiers face snipers and furious demonstrators, who march right up against their
gun barrels.

The world movement that opposed the U.S./British war on Iraq must forcefully declare that U.S.
corporations don't have the right to one cent of Iraq's funds.

This is a time to demand that the U.S. and British pay Iraq billions in reparations and to
absolutely oppose any UN legitimization of piracy and conquest.
 
In rec.bicycles.misc Kevan Smith <[email protected]/\/\> wrote:
: On Tue, 27 May 2003 20:07:06 GMT, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> from AT&T Broadband wrote:
[...]
:>> Canada, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Ireland, New
:>Zealand,
:>> Denmark, Finland, .....
:>>
:>> I'm sure there are others I don't have knowledge of.
:>
:>Why are they better?

: More freedom. More democratic governments. More humane policies.

This will go round and round forever and ever unless I intervene.

Someone please go dig up statistics. Whichever nation has the most bicycles per capita must
obviously and self-evidently be the superior moral, social, economic, political, democratic,
physical, and environmental society.

--
'They paved paradise And put up a parking lot' -Joni Mitchell
 
--
>
> Someone please go dig up statistics. Whichever nation has the most bicycles per capita must
> obviously and self-evidently be the superior moral, social, economic, political, democratic,
> physical, and environmental society.
>
>--
> 'They paved paradise And put up a parking lot' -Joni Mitchell

Then Holland must have it by the proverbial mile A great place.. love it .. not for its system of
government which I have very little knowledge about, but simply because just about everyone there
rides a bike. And, motorists respect your right to ride. I have visited many of the places mentioned
in this thread and currently we live in Australia ... and it's a great place to live too. My wife is
Dutch - which perhaps explains some slight bias for Holland. And, without wanting to start a flame
war.. the US ranks pretty low on the list of places I enjoyed the most and that is an honest opinion
and not coloured by polticis, wars etc.. just didn't like the place that much. Give me Europe any
day. Wainwright
 
Stephen Harding <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> > Canada, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Ireland, New Zealand, Denmark,
> > Finland, .....

> Ahhh, right! Another of the "Europe does it best" crowd.
>
> Europe has a notorious "top down" leadership model. Europe has a functioning democracy certainly,
> but to call it superior to the American form is bunk!
>
> It's simply a different model.
>

In Swizerland, they do government by referendum. CH is the only place in the world with more
referendums than California. IMHO- this is a good thing, but it can get a bit populistic. If an
immigrant wants to take Swiss citizenship, it has to be approved by local referendum. How would you
like total strangers to vote on something about you? Especially if the vote is not based on you, but
steriotypes.

Democracy in the EU is a joke. At election time, you get to vote for which party you want to rubber
stamp European Commission directives.

-Dave
 
28 May 2003 07:06:05 GMT, <[email protected]>, Barry Gaudet
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Someone please go dig up statistics. Whichever nation has the most bicycles per capita must
> obviously and self-evidently be the superior moral, social, economic, political, democratic,
> physical, and environmental society.
>
Netherlands is a constitutional monarchy and has more bicycles than people. It's also the highest
per capita bicycle usage in Europe. http://www.coffeeczar.com/eurotrip/081100/bicycles.htm

United States has the lowest per capita bicycle usage in the world.
http://www.afdc.doe.gov/afv/bikes.html

--
zk
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

...

> > Finland? A suicide rate only bested by countries of the former Soviet Union.
>
> Which means that a country's system of government does not determine its suicide rate.
> (Finland? USSR?).
>
> That has more to do with being substantially above the arctic circle - sunlight deprivation - NOT
> the system of government.

Norway is just as far north, if not further, and has no such problem.

--
David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.
 
On Wed, 28 May 2003 05:48:28 GMT, "ride your bike" <[email protected]> ranted:

>Thousands of Iraqis marched in Baghdad on May 19 in the largest protest yet against U.S.
>occupation.

Things must be bad in Iraq. During the past 30 years, there were absolutely no protest
marches, so things must have been wonderful under Saddam Hussein. Cordially, Ken (NY)
Chairman, Department Of Redundancy Department
____________________________________
email: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

-Anonymous
 
On 28 May 2003 07:06:05 GMT, Barry Gaudet <[email protected]> from University of Guelph wrote:

> Someone please go dig up statistics. Whichever nation has the most bicycles per capita must
> obviously and self-evidently be the superior moral, social, economic, political, democratic,
> physical, and environmental society.

China? Vietnam? Just guesses ....

--
http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace Hmmm ... a PINHEAD, during an EARTHQUAKE,
encounters an ALL-MIDGET FIDDLE ORCHESTRA ... ha ... ha ...
12:43:51 PM 28 May 2003
 
On Wed, 28 May 2003 00:47:21 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> from Balsa Pacific Aero Ltd.
Engineering & Bicycle Mongery wrote:

>Netherlands is a constitutional monarchy and has more bicycles than people. It's also the highest
>per capita bicycle usage in Europe. http://www.coffeeczar.com/eurotrip/081100/bicycles.htm

They also smoke lots of hash in funky little bars that play great reggae. I don't smoke anything,
but I love reggae.

IIRC, someone here offered to pay for my travel, a one-way ticket, to leave the U.S. Whoever it was,
get in touch with me. I need three tickets to the Netherlands.

--
http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace I am a traffic light, and Alan Ginsberg
kidnapped my laundry in 1927!
12:59:51 PM 28 May 2003
 
On Wed, 28 May 2003 04:51:02 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> from Road Runner High Speed Online --
Northeast Ohio wrote:

>If you toe the conformity line, you will get along. If not....well, you might not.

That's true anywhere under any system of government. All governments draw a line for acceptable
behaviour somewhere.

--
http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace What UNIVERSE is this, please??
12:41:51 PM 28 May 2003
 
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