HELP!....Road tire problems....

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by scho047, Nov 27, 2006.

  1. scho047

    scho047 New Member

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    Hey guys...

    I just have few minor issues with my tires... and I just dont know whether its me or just the crappy tires I have...
    First of all.. I previously had a Hybrid bike therefore the tires were lots wider and more durable... and had no problem in regards to puncture... but since converting to a road bike... the tire gash and puncture has been driving me nuts! so far in 4 months of riding... i had about 5 to 6 punctures alone.. and had to buy a new set of tires as there were big gash from the result of the puncture... and yesterday only after my 4th ride since getting a new tire... i have noticed massive piece of glass was stuck in the tire.. it did not penetrate through to the tube to punture it but made a huge hole in my tire.. (about 4mm diameter)!!!!
    what is the problem?? can anyone help?? is it due to having my tire too high pressured.. and my weight is putting too much stress where only a tiniest pin can puncture it????
    i usually have my tires up at about 120psi...
     
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  2. Xsmoker

    Xsmoker New Member

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    First, a couple of questions. Are you sure the flats are being caused by road debris? If they are, are you checking the inside of the tire for the culprit? Some times these things are very hard to find, running a cotton ball around the inside works great as it will snag on the smallest bit of crap.

    If you aren't finding anything, check the rim-strip for proper fit.

    What brand or tire are you using? Some brands and models aren't very puncture resistant. I use only ProRace2, three sets on two bikes and no flats.

    Most road shoulders have a lot of crap on them, try riding closer to the edge of the traffic lane. When safe of course..

    Lower the pressure to 100 to 110 psi.

    Just my 2 cents..
     
  3. scho047

    scho047 New Member

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    cheers for that info... yes i am sure its caused by the debris.. and am sure that nothing is in between the tire and tube.. and also within the rim itself... as i do a thorough clean... been told how to do it properly by the guys from lbs..

    would it be possible that maybe am putting too much pressure on it while riding whilst having the tire at a very high pressure??
     
  4. Xsmoker

    Xsmoker New Member

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    Ya know, I really don't believe that 120 psi is causing you to have more flats than, say, 100 or 110. My compressor shuts off at 115 and thats where I ride mine, front and rear. You may just be having a string of bad luck. A friend of mine had a flat four rides in a row and now nothing.......go figure...
     
  5. bobbyOCR

    bobbyOCR New Member

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    Buy some conti GP 4 seasons, you will never, ever, have a puncture again. A piece of glass was embedded in my front tyre yesterday after a ride, pulled it out and there wasn't even a noticable tear, let alone a puncture.
     
  6. Bargearse

    Bargearse New Member

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    Agree with Continentals. They get cut up a bit, but nothing has penetrated to cause a puncture yet. Much better than the Pro Race 2 tyres that came with my bike.



     
  7. hd reynolds

    hd reynolds New Member

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    You'll catch more road debris if you always ride close to the curb.
     
  8. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    SAME frame?

    You went from what was probably a 700x38 tire to what -- 700x23?

    If it is the same frame, consider getting 700x28 tires ... 100-to-105psi.

    Minimally, consider 700x25 ...

    So-called training tires are both LESS EXPENSIVE and MORE DURABLE ... and/or, you could get some Specialized Armadillo (or, similar) tires ...
     
  9. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    In that vein, you should consider that there is probably more road debris in the Springtime, particularly if you had a wet Winter.
     
  10. scho047

    scho047 New Member

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    Not with a same frame of course... bought a new road bike only after riding the brand new hybrid for only 2 and half months....loving it.. but do notice i am getting more puncture than i did with hybrid which was none!!
     
  11. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Your hybrid will, of course, easily handle a 700x28 tires and that may be what you want to ride NEXT Spring!

    For the rest of the riding season, if your current tires aren't 700x25, then that is the size that you may want to consider. Again, I know that people who have suffered from inconvenient flats (as if ANY are convenient) have resorted to Specialized Armadillo (or, comparable) tires.

    Regular so-called training tires are not only less expensive (THREE for the price of ONE high-zoot tire, so those are what I would opt for, first!), they last longer because the harder "rubber" compound makes them less prone to hanging on to road debris -- it is usually the second-or-third tire rotation which embeds road debris into the tire's tread & casing and into the tube UNLESS a catastrophic-for-the-tube (e.g., thorn, nail, or equivalent) puncture occurs.

    It has been just long enough, apparently, that I don't recall what the bent-wire gizmo (i.e., two pieces of bent wire [one attaches to the brake bolt and the other "scrubs" the tire] held together with two pieces of flexible tubing [which acted as a sprung hinge]) was called that was used to eschew debris from the tread of tubular tires. It's something worth considering if the road debris which you are encountering is the type that takes multiple rotations to cause a flat.
     
  12. scho047

    scho047 New Member

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    Hi thanks for the comments...
    at the moment I am riding Scott Speedster S30 with Vittorio Rubino Tech... which is just a training tire... and this seems to have thicker rubber than of the continental something that came with the bike when i bought them brand new only 4 months ago...
    but one thing i do notice is that this gash.. cut.. and puncture occurs only in the back wheel... any idea???
    would reducing the pressure help a bit??

    from the latest tire Rubino... no puncture yet.. but now have a hole... from a glass cut.. which did not penetrate through... so what i did was following from the advice i got from lbs.. put few drops of super glue in the gash... so now its rock hard.. and seems ok... will see.. but is this ok to do??
     
  13. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    The super glue should have been put in to a partially deflated tire so that the "wound" could close ... even if you didn't do it that way, it's undoubtedly okay, because the tread is simply there to provide traction AND to protect the casing ... the casing is there to envelope the tube ... but, if you did it "wrong" I would re-do it when you have the chance.

    Undoubtedly, the reason that you are getting flats in the rear is because whatever debris your front tire is making contact with is setting it (the debris) up for optimum contact with the tread of your rear tire.

    The rear, BTW, should probably have a few PSI more (e.g., 5PSI more) pressure than the front ...

    I don't know what tire pressure you are using ... but, you probably don't want to go below 90PSI-to-95PSI with a 700x28 tire ... 95PSI-to-100PSI with a 700x25, etc. Of course, your tires may, at times, have less air ...

    An extreme example of what can happen occurred to this one guy I know/knew/whatever with whom we rode who showed up one day (about a month since the last time we had seen him) to ride with us ... apparently, he had not put ANY air in his tires since the last ride! Well, he picked up a "thorn" within 50 yards ... that's a long way of saying a softer tire (either tread or PSI) will have a greater tendency to wrap itself around debris rather than deflecting it. Of course, a thorn is a different matter; but, if the guy had a properly inflated tire (in the 105PSI range), then the thorn which was close-to-the-sidewall might not have made contact with the tread ...
     
  14. scho047

    scho047 New Member

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    well i took the tube out from the wheel and put the glue on it while it was in a deflated manner... and then once the glue hardened up like a cement i put the tube back on and inflated the tire to 120psi which is that i normally have it at for 700x23 tire i have on my new road bike...

    maybe i am just having a string of bad luck... :( well hope i can just enjoy the ride! :D
     
  15. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    I think that most people (and, this EXCLUDES some people with whom I ride) who have kept up with the "literature" agree that 105PSI in a 700x23 is closer to the optimum pressure in an otherwise unweighted "racing" bike for most riders than the maxiumum tire rating on the sidewall (i.e., 120-to-140PSI, which is the pressure some of the forementioned people put in their tires!).

    Regardless, SLIME (and, the ilk ... if the core of your presta valves is removable, you can simply add a few ounces to your existing tubes OR you can buy inner tubes which are pre-SLIMEd ... all Scrader cores are removable ... DO NOT talc your tires if you are using tubes with sealants ... use corn starch, instead), MR. TUFFY liners and SPIN SKINS (kevlar) liners are other things you can use to lessen the likelihood of flats while on the road. Of course, they all add weight ...
     
  16. RussB

    RussB New Member

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    I think better tires are a good bet, The vinyl tires that came with my bike lasted about 50 miles before I got a 1 cm cut in them. I switched to Continental Ultra gator skins. 1050 miles later still no flats.
     
  17. Bob Ross

    Bob Ross New Member

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    Just curious which "literature" you're referring to, and whether you could cite an example? Not saying I don't believe you or disagree, just that this is the first I've ever heard such a contention & I'd be interested to hear the reasoning behind it. Thanks.
     
  18. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    In the days before BICYCLING became BUYCYCLING (again, to use the revised spelling which someone cleverly came up with), they printed an article (must have been in the late 80s or early 90s) in which the author examined tire cross section, air pressure, etc. ...

    Anyway, I believe that was possibly the seminal presentation in the public forum on bicycle tire pressure which gave rise to people rethinking tire size & pressure ...

    The most easily accessible (i.e., on the web) commentary on this that I can recall is by Alan "Uncle Al" Ardizone (http://www.roadbikerider.com/UArant.htm):




    The Case for Lower Tire Pressure


    DEAR UNCLE AL: Perhaps you can settle an argument at our bike club. I like riding 20-mm-wide tires inflated to 120-130 pounds. I feel faster because of what I think is lower rolling resistance. Others argue for a 23C width at 100-110 psi, saying these tires are more efficient because they absorb pavement irregularities better. I weigh 175 pounds and ride at an average of 18+ mph on a variety of road surfaces. So who's right about width and pressure? -- Greg C.

    UNCLE AL FIRES BACK: Soften up, Greg!

    Most everyone I know runs too much pressure. Welcome to the club. Over many years of testing and talking to guys who live on their bikes, I'm convinced there is little reason to run more than 95-100 psi -- and there are compelling reasons to run 85-90 psi.

    High pressure, say 100-120 psi, guarantees short tire life, poor cornering and lots of punctures. A rock-solid tire cuts/punctures more easily than it would at a lower pressure. Also, a softer tire can "smear" -- conform better to objects encountered on the road. Why make the ride even rougher on America's ever-crumbling road surfaces?

    Admittedly, I weigh 210 pounds and ride on really poor road surfaces. These things influence my opinions. I run 85-90 psi front and 90-95 psi rear on 700x23C clincher tires. I do not have flats! Plus, bumps are less of an issue, and my bike corners as if on rails on high-speed descents. I get 1,000-1,500 miles out of a rear tire. When I ran much higher pressure many years ago, I got no more than 500 miles.

    So, my advice is never to run smaller than 23C. Use good tubes, air them up before every ride and spend extra for premium tires -- they'll pay you back in extra mileage and better handling.

    One more thing: Don't buy a race-specific tire to train on. If it's advertised to last only 500 miles, they aren't lying. Shaving grams off of training tires is silly and wasteful, and you won't get the low-weight advantage when event time comes if you ride the light stuff all the time. Make gram shaving your secret weapon, if only in your mind, when it counts.

    Do as I recommend and I promise fewer flats, happier miles and no noticeable increase in rolling resistance (the great myth). Plus, you'll waste fewer resources, both financial and natural.


    FEEDBACK FROM ARNIE L.: As a roadie of 20+ years, but a new reader of RoadBikeRider, I was intrigued (and skeptical) of your advice to lower tire pressure. I have been riding at 125 psi or more, concerned about rolling resistance (although the extra 10 pounds around my waist probably matters a whole lot more to my performance).

    Well, I thought I'd try it. I lowered my pressure to 105 psi. What a great difference! I haven't really noticed any change in performance, but what a difference in the ride! One of my usual rides over badly cracked roads (usual Pennsylvania stuff) was sooo much more comfortable. It seemed like the road had been repaved. Thanks for the advice.


    FEEDBACK FROM MICHAEL A.: Recently, a friend told me about your promotion of lower tire pressure. GREAT!

    In the early 1960s, I rode the kermesses around Antwerp for a team sponsored by "Cycles OK." We always rode tubulars at about 90 psi with great results -- fewer flats and better handling, especially in the rain (a frequent occurrence in Flanders).

    I've tried to promote lower pressure as a coach with the New York Cycle Club, with little success. My fellow club members see my gray hair and my inability to keep up with the hormonally besot, and reject my advice. It's great that you're putting out this sound advice.


    FEEDBACK FROM SAL A.: I've been riding for years with high pressures in my 23C tires (120-130 psi rear, 100-110 psi front). I figured since I weigh around 215 pounds I need this.

    I was pleasantly surprised to find out how much better my bike rides after lowering the pressures as Uncle Al recommends.

    I rode over some freshly "chipped" roads on my latest ride. This is where the road is covered with hot tar and then pea stone is spread on top. It makes for pretty anxious riding, especially down hills. I was really happy with the improvement in handling.

    Also, on smooth asphalt the tires now “sing” lightly. They never did that before! I like the sound and it seems to confirm that I'm riding with the right tire pressure.

    I love when I learn something new about bicycling, especially when it's simple and effective. My helmet's off to Uncle Al.


    No doubt (since I've read similar remarks elsewhere), there were-and-have-been other on-line articles which echo this sentiment.


    In case you were posing the query because of the banter/bickering about spoke type/gauge/tension in another thread wherein tires were brought into question [OR, to hopefully quash any silly remarks which would not be posited if those people paused for a moment and processed what they read], tire pressure may indeed be related IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES (but, not related to the point I was trying to make) because if Jobst's "studies" and conclusions revolve around tires that are pressured on the "high" side (or, greater) as was vogue in the 80s & early 90s (and, currently amongst SOME people), then a (laterally) softer wheel with double-butted spokes would be better because ... well, more than you already wanted to know.


    Sorry for the long post, but I know that it is sometimes tedious-or-inconvenient to click through on links.
     
  19. bobbyOCR

    bobbyOCR New Member

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    He seems to be a fan of low pressure :D my 80/85 combo doesn't flat, but I have what must be 7,000 miles (around 11,000km) on a single tyre and its still fine. Hows that for value. Whats funny is they [conti] changed the casing graphics since I bought it.
     
  20. Blademun

    Blademun New Member

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    I use 3 layers of protection on my commuter bike. I have a 700x23c Panaracer elite tire with kevlar strip built in. Then I put in a mr tuffy 1.5x26 liner. That liner is quite a bit wider then most road liner and has enough length to cover the circumference of the tire. Atop that liner I placed another, smaller 700x23 liner.

    THe first liner gives near bead to bead coverage to fight thorns. The second liner adds some extra center protection to ward off glass and metal in conjunction with the first liner and the kevlar of the tire.

    Since setting up my liners I have not had a single flat. None. Its been like 5 months now of constant riding and I live in a very bad area for tire flats, mainly due to the thorns of a seed known as sand-spurs. Sand spurs produce up to centimeter long barbed spines that are needle sharp, and once dried, fairly strong. THey are barbed and can 'stick' to tires and then work their way inside after that. Very evil tire popping things..
     
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